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C3 Rattlesnake fit - solo WH living

Author
Artesius
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2017-01-15 17:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Artesius
Hello folks, when I last played Eve (a couple of years ago) I was living in a C4 with a small corp for a about 6 months.

My toons are nicely setup for WH life and this time around I'll do it solo. I found an empty C3 (Pulsar) with LS static. I'll setup up an Astrahaus (love this expansion!) - do PvE and basic PI.

I'm looking for advice on a cheaper but capable PvE Rattlesnake to run pretty much anything that this C3 can throw at me. Here's a fit I found that seems reasonable. With this setup, my snake flying toon can dish out over 900 DPS (970 with a couple of Ogres), 132k EHP (defence), 78km drone range, 90k targeting range etc. and it's cap stable. That said, I did not take the Pulsar buffs/de-buffs into consideration here.

All things being equal, "cheap" is good in my case. As a solo in WH with very basic PvP abilities, chances are i'll lose it sometime - despite standard precautions. And in this context: will an addition of a MJD increases my gank survivability chances?

Thank you for helping out!

[Rattlesnake, *Rattlesnake C3 passive - Cheap]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum C-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I



Gecko x1
Garde II x2
Ogre II x2

Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile x389
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#2 - 2017-01-16 05:57:50 UTC
Artesius wrote:
And in this context: will an addition of a MJD increases my gank survivability chances?


Yes & good luck.



Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#3 - 2017-01-16 07:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Indy
I find that while active fits are a fair bit more expensive they are much better.

This is the fit i use, Heavies are better for C3s as a large % of the site is Frigs/Cruisers (C4s most of the site EHP is in BS and range is a bigger issue) and Heavies struggle with shooting some of the frigs.

This can do all but the Databank and recursive as is, for the databank I just drop a depo for the last wave and swap the MJD for a T2 boost amp and add a bit more regen. Have not been game for a solo recursive and they are pretty rare anyway.

[Rattlesnake, C3 WH Active]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier (T2 works fine as well and shaves off 100mil)
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Large Micro Jump Drive

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Praetor II x2
Gecko x1
Artesius
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2017-01-16 18:55:27 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
I find that while active fits are a fair bit more expensive they are much better.

This can do all but the Databank and recursive as is, for the databank I just drop a depo for the last wave and swap the MJD for a T2 boost amp and add a bit more regen. Have not been game for a solo recursive and they are pretty rare anyway.


Thank you! This is looking promising.

Any advice on anti-ganking tactics that worked for you?
James QQ
Asset Recycling Service
#5 - 2017-01-16 19:34:48 UTC
Spam dscan. if you're farming in your static then find one with few connections, best are ls connections, put an alt on as many holes as you can (now with alpha accounts its easier than ever, you dont even need a cloak, just drift away in a venture or t1 frig).
Usually once you get tackled you're toast because people that are watching you have more than enough time to get what they need to kill you.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#6 - 2017-01-17 02:04:36 UTC
James QQ wrote:
(now with alpha accounts its easier than ever, you don't even need a cloak, just drift away in a venture or t1 frig).


You can't log into an Alpha account while you are logged in with a Omega. At least without violating EULA ect. No Free scouts sorry.

Otherwise all correct.

If the WH has a crap tonne of sites (may not be worth it for only a few) and you want safety you can also roll all of the connections and crit the Static. if its you home system a Couple of Megas can pretty much crush any C3 Whs in about 10 minutes (if its a static you can still use them but you do waste 800 Mass on the connection and its a lot less safe). Then clear all Sigs from your scanner so you can see if a new one pops safe up if one does and scan it down.
Artesius
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2017-01-17 02:32:48 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:


You can't log into an Alpha account while you are logged in with a Omega. At least without violating EULA ect. No Free scouts sorry.

Otherwise all correct.

If the WH has a crap tonne of sites (may not be worth it for only a few) and you want safety you can also roll all of the connections and crit the Static. if its you home system a Couple of Megas can pretty much crush any C3 Whs in about 10 minutes (if its a static you can still use them but you do waste 800 Mass on the connection and its a lot less safe). Then clear all Sigs from your scanner so you can see if a new one pops safe up if one does and scan it down.


Them CCP folks are clever. It makes sense for them to limit how Alphas are (ab)used. Too bad. But the Megas are an interesting idea.

Thanks!
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#8 - 2017-01-17 02:55:06 UTC
Higgs Rigged Mega with a 500MN MWD is 300M KG so 1 cold and 1 hot pass is 500M which happily fits into 1000, 2000 or 3000 that most HWs have.
Toxin Nostromo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2017-01-19 13:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Toxin Nostromo
Hello Artesius,

This is something I too had interest in recently returning and have Just done as recent as last night. I'm going to give you a break down on the fit I used along with supplies I recommend that was quite helpful. You may visit my youtube channel, I have a time lapse of the run from last night using this fit so you can get an idea of it's effectiveness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFDvYkPXomI


First the fit: over 1.1k DPS (can increase and lower during the site as needed with Mobile Depot)

Lows:
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Mids:
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermal Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Phased Scoped Target Painter
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script

Highs:
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Improved CLoaking Device II

Rigs:
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II


Drones:
Gecko x1
Warrior x5
ECM Drones x5
Rest up to you, recommend more warriors as they can pop super fast


This point you want to bring the following supplies with you for refit on the fly, this is very critical as one fit doesn't fit all sites.
Bring

Mobile Depot
Mobile Tracking Unit
Core probe launcher with extra probes
Lots of Inferno Missiles
3 Ballistic Control Systems ( Good for missile towers too far out of drone range)
3 Shield Power Relays to replace Drone Damage amps when tank is low
3 Cap Rechargers, handy for capping back up after site clear
5 Salvager II's
Remote Armor Rep (to repair drones after site)
I had wish I brought a drone Aug for the high slot to extend drone range.


Optional PVP Fit:
I also brought the following to refit PVP if needed
1 Warp Scram
1 Web
2 heavy nuets

I hate sitting in a completely PVE fit ship and getting caught off guard. Bringing at least those items you have something to work with on returning some pain. But rest assured solo PVP is dead and these are just to kill a member or two of the fleet that will warp on top of you at some point, no matter how diligent you are with Dscan.


Time you done buying all this hull and all, I had about 1B in the complete kit. With it however I was able to do the sites no problem. I've never done a C3 before and prior experience was a c1 upon my recent return just to learn wormholes.


Notes:
Took me 7 hours to find a C3 that wasn't currently active. By active I mean people not physically flying around in it. Perhaps this was the luck of the draw but I went through static chains after chains looking and searching. Site I found, 2 different corps lived in it, 2 members and 30 some members. Killboard only one kill that day, 6 day gaps between kills. Pretty decent find.

I was successfully able to run about 6 sites I believe. Loot per each site ran between 40-mid 50's million per site. Sites went pretty quick. I enjoyed the heck of refitting on the fly and some of the challenges they brought. Much more involved in any DED site I had done. Lots of micro management going on to keep you busy while your spamming Dscan. Had a great time.

On paper the money per hour is quite good. However if you calculate the investment to find the C3 and light drone loss up until the point the locals become active (millage varies) It wasn't great income. I had my alt with me, to hold all the loot and scout. When Scanner probes popped out. I cloaked up a bit and watched. Over twenty minute period I saw over ten Stratios splash in to the system and cloak and warp in the same general direction. Nothing says shiny kill like a solo Rattlesnake. No doubt I got someone's attention! I got the experience I was looking for and decided it was time to leave while the going was good and I left.

A Summary of what I took from this experience is, C3 is good isk if you join a corp and infrastructure is already in place. Ideally something harder than a c3 would be preferred in a active corp to do the sites together with, plus it would be a lot more fun.

In terms of making isk I feel Nullsec is better if you join a alliance and your ratting and doing DED sites in deep blue space. You have intel channels, not to mention local. Allows you to fly expensive ships like the rattlesnake in a much safer environment without even close to the same risk.

For all the things you deal with soloing someones C3, I felt it didn't quite feel on par with risk vs reward imo. If I could have had the same experience doing it in a Battle Cruiser in terms of speed then most certainly worth loosing that ship over. But for using a 1B isk shiny, Too much overhead out of the gate before you make it back. Plus no one is going to pass up a rattlesnake gank, no one.

That's been my experience and thought's as a whole on my C3 adventure, hopefully you found some of that helpful and can come to your own conclusion on what you think, but I recommend you give it a try. Very least you might have fun as I did.

Have fun

See my Eve Youtube Channel here! Toxin Nostromo Eve Youtube Channel

Artesius
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2017-01-19 17:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Artesius
Toxin Nostromo wrote:
Hello Artesius,

That's been my experience and thought's as a whole on my C3 adventure, hopefully you found some of that helpful and can come to your own conclusion on what you think, but I recommend you give it a try. Very least you might have fun as I did.

Have fun


Thanks for sharing your experience Toxin. I really appreciate the level of details you laid out. It's an interesting conundrum. I'll need to see whether precautions like moving into an empty system, zipping the system to the extent possible (the C3 i'm in now - regularly goes down to a static plus two or even one WH connections) and generating income from other sources such as PI.

I'l try and keep the snake to a T2 level mostly (my toon's skills are reasonably high so it seems I can dish out and absorbe quite a bit of DPS without going crazy with exotic modules). This will make the loss more in the 500mm range. I can throw a few of them into the ISK fire pit and will not lose sleep over it at this point - just a bruised ego. Still high if it happens weekly of course. If it happens frequently - I'll know I'm doing something wrong. I may feel far less sanguine after my Snake goes down in flames for the 2nd time in a row or something Shocked.

But I like your idea of taking a couple of them down with me.

o7
Toxin Nostromo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2017-01-19 19:12:49 UTC
Artesius wrote:
Toxin Nostromo wrote:
Hello Artesius,

That's been my experience and thought's as a whole on my C3 adventure, hopefully you found some of that helpful and can come to your own conclusion on what you think, but I recommend you give it a try. Very least you might have fun as I did.

Have fun


Thanks for sharing your experience Toxin. I really appreciate the level of details you laid out. It's an interesting conundrum. I'll need to see whether precautions like moving into an empty system, zipping the system to the extent possible (the C3 i'm in now - regularly goes down to a static plus two or even one WH connections) and generating income from other sources such as PI.

I'l try and keep the snake to a T2 level mostly (my toon's skills are reasonably high so it seems I can dish out and absorbe quite a bit of DPS without going crazy with exotic modules). This will make the loss more in the 500mm range. I can throw a few of them into the ISK fire pit and will not lose sleep over it at this point - just a bruised ego. Still high if it happens weekly of course. If it happens frequently - I'll know I'm doing something wrong. I may feel far less sanguine after my Snake goes down in flames for the 2nd time in a row or something Shocked.

But I like your idea of taking a couple of them down with me.

o7


Awesome, I hope your adventure goes well. It's quite fun. That's one of the great things about this game, there are so many different things you can try, most take prep, research and time but the rewards either pay off or provide experience.

Just thought i'd share this one story about the last rattlesnake I had on my old alt I sold. Like 3+ years ago (at least) I was doing a DED 8/10 or a 10/10 in Test space as a neutral. At the time T3 Cruisers didn't exist yet. Only thing I felt that could handle it was a rattlesnake due to all the mid slots for more active tanking mods.

Rattlesnake DPS at that time was quite low, so this was going to be slow going. But it had a helluva tank. I brought 2 friends with me for DPS and my alt for Logistics. I was going to handle all the tanking, they were going to dish out the damage. The escalation was only 4 jumps in to null. Cleared the first room. Reached the 2nd. probes came out. we cloaked up. I waited four days, FOUR days. In those four days my friends were able to get out in their BC and Cruiser. So every day Log in, and stayed logged in all day. See locals too risky to take the rattlesnake back home. The Hull cost of a Rattler at the time was 800m. There was no mobile depot then so I couldn't refit otherwise could of had some fun!

On the forth day, I warped my Logistic Alt out and up the pipeline to see if any on was awake. Only one local, rest of the pipeline was clear. I went for it, surely nothing is worth four freaking days of camping a single ship, right?

Once my alt was out, I head on out with the rattle snake. Soon as I jumped Bubble popped up from a cloaked Hic by the gate. They let the other ships go holding out for the juicy kill. What felt like ages finally enough ships arrived that I knew I was going to go down, it didn't take long but in those moments seconds feel like days lol. Well at the time if you self destructed a ship no loot dropped or kill mail was provided. So I did a total **** move and self destructed that sucker, after the four day camp I should of gave it to them, I can't imagine how pissed they were. I think I said "Nope, Chuck Testa!" in local after it blew up. had 20% armor left when it self destructed, I timed that well!

Now when flying expensive hulls I have a exit strat, i'm not going to be camped for 4+ days, man that sucked lol. I really would like to revisit the C3 solo only next time have to see if it can be done and within a reasonable time frame on the cheap. If I could find that investment risk vs reward ratio that is appealing I may go for it again. I have yet to try C2 so that may be on my to do list soon.

Don't be surprised at the lengths people will go to, they will wait you out for days for a Rattlesnake. Perhaps its a bit better now that they are so much cheaper compared to what they once were. But just know If discovered, you could be in for a lonnnnngggg camp.

See my Eve Youtube Channel here! Toxin Nostromo Eve Youtube Channel

Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#12 - 2017-01-20 05:08:44 UTC
Quote:
Now when flying expensive hulls I have a exit strat, i'm not going to be camped for 4+ days, man that sucked lol.


Luckily in WHs people tend not to camp for that long, maybe a day but after that connections go EOL and unless you are in a major Entities WH you will be OK. That being said I have had similar things happen to me (Jump into WH, scout if for ages, watch a movie and d scan , jump out get my PVE ship and jump though and pop goes the cloaky saber. (Damn you Lazerhawks, don't you have better things to do).


Quote:
I'l try and keep the snake to a T2 level mostly (my toon's skills are reasonably high so it seems I can dish out and absorbe quite a bit of DPS without going crazy with exotic modules). This will make the loss more in the 500mm range


If you go for the active fit the 1 mod you cant really T2 is the booster, its not very expensive so its not a big issue. Everything else is OK to T2.

If you go for Toxins fit, use Rapid Heavies over Cruise, they kill frigs way faster than Warriors do and you have less issues with losing drones ect. they have 60Km range with is fine for 95% of sites as long as you know what you are doing, a drone link allows you to kill everything else. Also if you are going to site on your Depo during a site carry Warp core stabs as well, sitting on a depo makes it very easy to catch you so you might as well give yourself a chance to get away.

Quote:
3 Ballistic Control Systems ( Good for missile towers too far out of drone range)


No need to kill towers, they are not needed to complete the site and they are pretty tanky. A Snake can tank any C3 site that has towers.

Also if you are 100% solo (1 Char) don't bother salvaging, the time spent salvaging would make you way more in blue loot if you just ran more sites (ribbons are just too cheap these days)
Artesius
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2017-01-21 20:01:23 UTC
Toxin Nostromo wrote:

Just thought i'd share this one story about the last rattlesnake I had on my old alt I sold.


Now that's a great story!
Artesius
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-01-21 20:10:08 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:

Also if you are 100% solo (1 Char) don't bother salvaging, the time spent salvaging would make you way more in blue loot if you just ran more sites (ribbons are just too cheap these days)


Great advice. It's a risk /reward balance for a solo wormholer like me. Regardless, I'll run the fit in Sisi to test and optimize it.