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Rent-a-hub Ihubs

Author
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#1 - 2017-01-11 14:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Low sec and NPC null are under utilized space. I thought citadels might help them but i was wandering through my old low sec stomping grounds from years ago and its even more dead now than it was a few years ago.

The problem with this NPC space is it lacks the ability to support very many players. One player can keep a system pretty cleaned out and have to resort to belt ratting. It is time we utilize this space and make it what it is designed to be a useful stepping stone to null sov.

Enter "Rent-a-hub" ihubs. These are owned by the NPC sov holder( for now at least) and will offer anyone the ability to upgrade the system. Simply pay the owning faction the upgrade fee and for a month you will have an upgraded system. Anyone can pay to upgrade. Only works with the anomaly and mining upgrades.

Upgrade levels for pirates:

Low sec:
Level 1: 10 mil for 4 anomalies
Level 2: an additional 20 mil for 4 more anomalies
Level 3: an additional 30 mil for 4 more anomalies
Level 4: an additional 40 mil for 4 more anomalies
Level 3: an additional 50 mil for 4 more anomalies

Total monthly cost: 150 mil isk a month for 20 anomalies that respawn as fast as sov null.

NPC Null: The price is doubled to 300 mil for a full upgrade for 20 anomalies per month.

Mining: The mining upgrade is separate but runs half the cost of the anomaly upgrade.


What this does:

It allows small corps and alliances to have an alternative to renting sov null. And gives them a place to grow outside of high sec without being under the thumb of a landlord just to have decently usable space. A low or NPC null system can now support a small to medium size corp and a constellation can support an alliance of up to 1000 players.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#2 - 2017-01-11 19:12:19 UTC
And which anomalies would they spawn? The same faction is a bit pointless: Hey, let me give the Angel Cartel money so that they spawn Angel Cartel anomalies so that I can shoot Angel Cartel pirates and get money. Opposing factions? Would be novel but why would the Angel Cartel allow Sansha and Blood Raiders such a huge presence in their space?

Furthermore, why would anyone in their right mind rat in anomalies when they have hard to assail, hard to reach, hard to take away missions to run instead? Missions can support a lot more people than anomalies. While only 20 people could rat in a given system under your suggestion, hundreds can run missions from a single L4 agent. Even in sov null sec, even the best systems can not support more than 10 people per system if you want to have an income worth your effort. Missions are vastly superior to anomaly ratting in order to support large numbers of people.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#3 - 2017-01-11 21:36:20 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And which anomalies would they spawn? The same faction is a bit pointless: Hey, let me give the Angel Cartel money so that they spawn Angel Cartel anomalies so that I can shoot Angel Cartel pirates and get money. Opposing factions? Would be novel but why would the Angel Cartel allow Sansha and Blood Raiders such a huge presence in their space?

Furthermore, why would anyone in their right mind rat in anomalies when they have hard to assail, hard to reach, hard to take away missions to run instead? Missions can support a lot more people than anomalies. While only 20 people could rat in a given system under your suggestion, hundreds can run missions from a single L4 agent. Even in sov null sec, even the best systems can not support more than 10 people per system if you want to have an income worth your effort. Missions are vastly superior to anomaly ratting in order to support large numbers of people.


You know i thought "there is no way someone could find something negative about this" and yet here we have it glass empty type of guy. The entire point went over your head. A null system can support up to about 40 ratters. Just because its not 40 rock havens/sanctums doesnt mean it cant support them. And missions dont pay that well, also wardecs.

Also i dont care who you pay rent too. Just would like to see upgradable npc systems. There is also a void for medium corps to medium alliances that doesnt want to rent null but doesnt have the firepower to hold any space. Low and null npc would see more use if it could support more players. But low and npc null are still in 2007. So they are even more empty than they was back then.

Lastly, you obviously care about max isk/hr. Very few players do., that was also very 2007. Most players want casual and they dont want playing to be a grind which is exactly what max isk /hr is. They are more interested in a variety of things to do and low and NPC null are virtually untapped in use.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-01-11 23:00:01 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Lastly, you obviously care about max isk/hr. Very few players do., that was also very 2007. Most players want casual and they dont want playing to be a grind which is exactly what max isk /hr is. They are more interested in a variety of things to do and low and NPC null are virtually untapped in use.


If you're going to grind (and lets be honest, any PVE content is grinding) are you going to grind for more or less isk?

I grind isk to PVP, or to field new ships/whatever for PVP. If I can grind more isk in a shorter time, I will. And "most players" (citation needed?) would care more about making more isk.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#5 - 2017-01-12 08:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
You know i thought "there is no way someone could find something negative about this" and yet here we have it glass empty type of guy. The entire point went over your head. A null system can support up to about 40 ratters. Just because its not 40 rock havens/sanctums doesnt mean it cant support them. And missions dont pay that well, also wardecs.

Also i dont care who you pay rent too. Just would like to see upgradable npc systems. There is also a void for medium corps to medium alliances that doesnt want to rent null but doesnt have the firepower to hold any space. Low and null npc would see more use if it could support more players. But low and npc null are still in 2007. So they are even more empty than they was back then.

Lastly, you obviously care about max isk/hr. Very few players do., that was also very 2007. Most players want casual and they dont want playing to be a grind which is exactly what max isk /hr is. They are more interested in a variety of things to do and low and NPC null are virtually untapped in use.

I am always this guy and on principle because I cannot stand naive yessayers, in particular if they are terribly, terribly wrong on a subject. Roll

Well, maybe it can if you have people who are willing to give up the chance for escalations. My experience tells me that those are in the minority. Irregardless of that, missions can still support vastly more people than 40. Missions also allow any size of corps to exist and thrive in a system. I have my alt in a 1-man corp in systems in Stain and Curse running L4 missions just fine, which bigger groups next doors in systems with more L4 agents. With a little bit of diplomacy, missions even allow different corps and corp sizes to coexist in the same system, something that anomalies do not allow.
Missions also allow an unlimited number of people to run an unlimited number of The Assault, Navy Armada, Worlds Collide or burner missions if you are just interested in LP simultaneously, while only up to 5 people can run a given anomaly type.
Missions pay exceptionally well compared to anomaly ratting. They provide income comparable to carrier ratting (LP, mission rewards, navy tags and the occasional faction module), while you can just do them in a single battle ship. Obviously, anomaly ratting in a carrier is a no go in NPC Null sec.
War decs? In NPC Null sec? Roll The last time that Marmite Collective dared to come into Doril (the first NPC null sec system in Curse after low sec), they got dunked very badly in Doril and were never seen again.

And again, what is the point and which anomalies would spawn? If you live in NPC Null sec, your main income are the missions. If you anomaly rat in NPC Null sec, you kill your standing towards the corps that you run missions for. That's completely counterintuitive.

You are so wrong about me focusing on ISK/Hour. Roll What I care about is casual, non-committing and easy to pull out ISK making. Anomaly ratting does not allow that because anyone can warp to your anomaly and ruin your day. Missions, on the other hand, not only allow you to pick what you want to do, they also require any wanna-be attacker to combat probe you and thus give you ample warning in order to leave your ISK making site. Missions also offer an order of magnitude larger variety of things to do to make money. If I cared about max ISK/hour, I would run burner missions or use a better ship than my T1 hull for the other L4 missions, but I do not.
There are hundreds of potential missions to run and choose from, while there are only 10 or so different anomalies worth running. If you bring grind into the argument, I argue that running dozens of Havens or Sanctums, or any other anomaly, per day, with the always same, never changing patterns is the vastly more boring and tiresome grind than missions with their varieties, funny triggers, different locations and to some degree larger variety.

So, you can accuse me of being a "glass half empty" guy as much as you want, many people do that on a regular basis. It does not change the fact that you (and they) are horribly wrong all the time. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#6 - 2017-01-12 14:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Old Pervert wrote:


If you're going to grind (and lets be honest, any PVE content is grinding) are you going to grind for more or less isk?

I grind isk to PVP, or to field new ships/whatever for PVP. If I can grind more isk in a shorter time, I will. And "most players" (citation needed?) would care more about making more isk.


Any PVE content to YOU is grinding. You are minority in Eve. I play with both vets in a pvp alliance and run a newbie corp. And a majority of those players are like me, they do what they enjoy/ feel like doing atm not what pays the best isk for their skill level. I have newbies that mine despite every single other profession being told it pays better. The same goes for null players, they do what they enjoy, not what pays the best. You have a very few that look to max isk/hr. Its a game, not a job.

Quote:
I am always this guy and on principle because I cannot stand naive yessayers, in particular if they are terribly, terribly wrong on a subject.
Arrogant ,condescending, conceited. Sorry i was thinking out loud and got side tracked

Quote:
Mission stuff/wardec
Yep you figure isk an hour like a miner. I was talking about missions in high sec. Almost no one runs missions out of low/null. A majority of eve players that kill stuff for pve prefer anomalies to anything else. Missions ARE a grind. They havent been changed since ...ever and a majority of players find them boring and tedious. Not a popular choice.

Quote:
And again, what is the point and which anomalies would spawn? If you live in NPC Null sec, your main income are the missions. If you anomaly rat in NPC Null sec, you kill your standing towards the corps that you run missions for. That's completely counterintuitive.
If you are coming from low/high sec with your corp looking to get a foot in null most of your corp is going to have crap standings with that faction anyway. Most players have bad standings with pirate factions. You act as if the only choice you should have in NPC null space is missioning.

If i was to bring my corp to stain, they would want to kill anomaly rats not mission for sansha. And eve is about options, yet you seem to be really against giving people options in eve just because they dont share your opinion on how to play eve.

Quote:
You are so wrong about me focusing on ISK/Hour. Roll What I care about is casual, non-committing and easy to pull out ISK making. Anomaly ratting does not allow that because anyone can warp to your anomaly and ruin your day. Missions, on the other hand, not only allow you to pick what you want to do, they also require any wanna-be attacker to combat probe you and thus give you ample warning in order to leave your ISK making site. Missions also offer an order of magnitude larger variety of things to do to make money. If I cared about max ISK/hour, I would run burner missions or use a better ship than my T1 hull for the other L4 missions, but I do not.
There are hundreds of potential missions to run and choose from, while there are only 10 or so different anomalies worth running. If you bring grind into the argument, I argue that running dozens of Havens or Sanctums, or any other anomaly, per day, with the always same, never changing patterns is the vastly more boring and tiresome grind than missions with their varieties, funny triggers, different locations and to some degree larger variety.



Great glad you enjoy missioning in null. Here is what i think. I think you are against this idea not because its a bad idea but because its a good idea that will bring more corps and alliance to the space you mission in. Thus probably pushing you out of your missions hub. You are against it because you want NPC null to stay stagnant and mostly unused so you can continue to do what you enjoy without much interference from others.

You being against the idea, actually tells me it would do what its intended at least in your mind.

"It does not change the fact that you (and they) are horribly wrong all the time." Wow, just wow. I bet your great at parties.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#7 - 2017-01-12 15:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
No one runs missions in Low sec and Null sec? I beg your pardon, but systems like G-O, H-ADOC in Curse, various systems in the Outer Ring pockets in Syndicate, the big L4 agent systems in Stain like G-M or X-7 and 5-Z in Pure Blind have a sizeable mission runner population. Same goes for all the L5 mission systems in Low sec as well as many L4 mission systems, like Hophib or Fargeras in a largely deserted region like Aridia.
If your people in these areas prefer anomaly ratting over missions, be my guest and find me some citations. All the anomalies, even Sanctums, that I have encountered in Curse in my years of residence in the region were left untouched. People even have reservations over running a lucrative 10/10 because it harms their standings to the agents. That aside, standings are not an issue because you use a dedicated alt for accepting the missions.

Few people run missions in Low/Null because you cannot move around without danger. That is too much trouble for most people who, as you said yourself, want casual ISK making. Personally, I do not have problems with that because I only accept mission in the same system as the agent or have ships in other systems to run a mission, but most people are lazy and incompetent to do that.

If people find missions boring and tedious, how can they logically ever find anomalies less boring and tedious. I mean, I know a Haven like the back of my palm after having run hundreds of exact clones of these anomalies. There is no variation, no unexpected events, no wow effect in them at all.
However, if you think you will enjoy running anomalies in NPC null sec or low sec, why don't you give it a try? There are lots of anomalies floating around in these systems that you can run.

This is not about denying people options, it is about not screwing people over into paying for something they cannot use properly because it is unfeasible to use. I could not care less if people flock to the mission hubs because I do not run missions in the most popular systems (competence in selection of residence, you know?). In fact, the more people would flock to NPC null sec, the better because they would quickly get hammered into the ground under your idea and leave the region or game entirely because of disillusion -- and until then I would profit from them because they buy from my market orders. Besides, why would they go to mission hubs if they want to run anomalies? It would be more logical if they upgraded less populated systems so that they can run their anomalies in relative peace. Just saying.
As I told you before, you can hardly interfere with my mission running. You need to probe me to find my mission site and by the time you have launched your probes, I am back in station. Many people have tried that already and failed almost always. With your anomalies, however, PVP savy people living in the regions can just warp to your anomaly, tackle you and kill you, farm you just like in Sov null sec. Or they can just cloaky camp a system and prevent you from anomaly ratting altogether. Please tell me again who you can interfere with easier.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2017-01-12 17:41:42 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

I am always this guy and on principle because I cannot stand naive yessayers, in particular if they are terribly, terribly wrong on a subject. Roll

Well, maybe it can if you have people who are willing to give up the chance for escalations. My experience tells me that those are in the minority. Irregardless of that, missions can still support vastly more people than 40. Missions also allow any size of corps to exist and thrive in a system. I have my alt in a 1-man corp in systems in Stain and Curse running L4 missions just fine, which bigger groups next doors in systems with more L4 agents. With a little bit of diplomacy, missions even allow different corps and corp sizes to coexist in the same system, something that anomalies do not allow.
Missions also allow an unlimited number of people to run an unlimited number of The Assault, Navy Armada, Worlds Collide or burner missions if you are just interested in LP simultaneously, while only up to 5 people can run a given anomaly type.
Missions pay exceptionally well compared to anomaly ratting. They provide income comparable to carrier ratting (LP, mission rewards, navy tags and the occasional faction module), while you can just do them in a single battle ship. Obviously, anomaly ratting in a carrier is a no go in NPC Null sec.
War decs? In NPC Null sec? Roll The last time that Marmite Collective dared to come into Doril (the first NPC null sec system in Curse after low sec), they got dunked very badly in Doril and were never seen again.

And again, what is the point and which anomalies would spawn? If you live in NPC Null sec, your main income are the missions. If you anomaly rat in NPC Null sec, you kill your standing towards the corps that you run missions for. That's completely counterintuitive.

You are so wrong about me focusing on ISK/Hour. Roll What I care about is casual, non-committing and easy to pull out ISK making. Anomaly ratting does not allow that because anyone can warp to your anomaly and ruin your day. Missions, on the other hand, not only allow you to pick what you want to do, they also require any wanna-be attacker to combat probe you and thus give you ample warning in order to leave your ISK making site. Missions also offer an order of magnitude larger variety of things to do to make money. If I cared about max ISK/hour, I would run burner missions or use a better ship than my T1 hull for the other L4 missions, but I do not.
There are hundreds of potential missions to run and choose from, while there are only 10 or so different anomalies worth running. If you bring grind into the argument, I argue that running dozens of Havens or Sanctums, or any other anomaly, per day, with the always same, never changing patterns is the vastly more boring and tiresome grind than missions with their varieties, funny triggers, different locations and to some degree larger variety.

So, you can accuse me of being a "glass half empty" guy as much as you want, many people do that on a regular basis. It does not change the fact that you (and they) are horribly wrong all the time. Roll


All of this is true but if ti was available, I would of used OP's suggestion back when I lived in LS. Why? Because it's just simple. There are obviously problems with implementation in NPC null because of the standings but not really in low sec. It's obviously less ISK/hours to grind anomaly then missions but I play a game and quality of life is important to me. Being able to undock and warp to an anomaly would of been much easier than going around the map for the fac warfare agents, then go around to all the mission objectives and return to all stations again to turn in the mission. After that, you deal with LP conversion and logistic to market. Is it easy? Well technically yes but I don't want to do that so I would totally go for an easier option even if it meant less total ISK/hours.

Maybe I am an very odd type of player but I always liked the simplicity of anomalies.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2017-01-13 18:45:24 UTC
this kinda sounds like it kicks sov nulls ass.....
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#10 - 2017-01-13 18:51:28 UTC
Kind of feel like mission agents are probably a suitable tradeoff for the lack of anoms.

In any case, sov null is a far larger investment than merely the ihub bill, so the pricing you're coming up with to make it just-as-good-as-sov seems pretty off kilter.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/