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Is MTU killing harrasment?

Author
Akis Talanas
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-12-29 12:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Akis Talanas
Just a simple question because i find it surely is....

And what about stealing the mission related item?
Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp
Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....

But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....

And killing a mtu?
I mean...why?
Just because you can?
Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......

Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment.....
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#2 - 2016-12-29 12:15:06 UTC
They are both allowed to provoke PvP. The MTUs were specifically designed to be allowed to be shot with no Concord.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Amanda Creire-Geng
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-12-29 12:24:02 UTC
EVE may just not be the game for you. That's PvP content, not harassment.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#4 - 2016-12-29 12:31:27 UTC
MTU is not needed to do missions. It adds to your loot/salvage/ISK but will also increade your risk. Works as intended I think. Spoiling missions by snatching an misson critical item is quite mean, but part of EVE's sandbox playstyle.
Salvos Rhoska
#5 - 2016-12-29 12:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Your incessant whining and lack of intellectual effort to understand/internalize/research EVE mechanics and ethos is getting tiresome...

1) No, stealing loot or attacking an MTU is not harassment.

2) I have frequently had my loot stolen, and have stolen loot from others. This is allowed in EVE, as congruent with the principles of player competition/conflict throughout the game.

3) Attacking an MTU is a baiting action, to prompt you to attack them, thus freeing them according to HS mechanics to attack your ship without CONCORD intervention. Simply fly to your MTU, scoop it up, and continue whatever you where doing. If they attack you, CONCORD will wreck them.

4) These will incur a Suspect Timer on the antagonist, allowing you and all others to freely aggress them for 15mins after the last action of its kind, as well as destroy their pod without sec status loss.

5) All of the above constitute PVP action. You are fundamentally failing to understand what PVP is.
PVP is conflict/competition/interaction between players, as compared to the same vs NPC/AI entities.
It is more than just ship destruction, it is pervasive throughout all of EVE, in many forms.

6) View the first link in my sig to help you visualize the paradigm between what PVP and PVE is in EVE.



Ive never said this before, but Im very close to telling you that you may be fundamentally incompatible with this game.
You seem unwilling or incapable of internalizing its systems and ethos, understanding why they exist, vs your own prejudices and false expectations.

You are not adapting/integrating into the EVE community and game, instead you are expecting EVE and everyone else to adapt/integrate into your subjective preferences.

This game does not match your subjective view on values as superimposed from your IRL.
This is a virtual environment with different systemic rules.
Rather than seeing the lack of constraints as liberating, you perceive them as harassment and personal offense.
Rather than perceiving it as opportunity, you perceive it as restriction. And then you want others constrained.

That is a self-imposed cage conceived by your own mind and values, not EVE, nor anyone else in it.

EVE does not limit you. You are doing that yourself, to yourself.
Omar Alharazaad
Praetorian Cannibals
Cannibal Empire
#6 - 2016-12-29 12:41:01 UTC
OP, have we met?
Just curious.

In my slow times I subside off of a steady diet of MTU's and liberated Damsels.
Sometimes MTU's hold wonderful treasures, such as the leftover modules from the mission ship that just derped to NPC's.
It's worth the time and effort usually to crack them open to see if there's something shiny inside.
They're kinda like barrels in Diablo.

An important thing to keep in mind in EVE is that a thing isn't truly truly yours until you offload it in a station.
Things in space can be taken from you, especially if you do not take measures to prevent that from happening.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Sequester Risalo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-12-29 12:41:35 UTC
Akis Talanas wrote:
And killing a mtu?
I mean...why?
Just because you can?
Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......


that you can't see a reason doesn't mean there is none.

The reason for stealing a mission related item and reselling to the mission runner has verz simple reason. Profit. There is no such thing as stealing as any item is only truly yours after you bank it in a station.

Shooting an MTU also has very good reasons. Again it can be done for a profit as you can scoop the contents. However most of the times the reason is provoking an attack. Shooting an MTU is not illegal as it is not sanction by the CONCORD police force. Instead the attacker gets a suspect timer (flashing yellow) allowing you to retaliate without CONCORD intervention.

However the attacker will most likely ba a PvP player in a ship fitted for PvP whereas you don't seem to be one and are sitting an a ship fitted for PvE. This means the odds aren't in your favour and you should probably not shoot at the offender.
Cade Windstalker
#8 - 2016-12-29 14:28:50 UTC
Akis Talanas wrote:
Just a simple question because i find it surely is....

And what about stealing the mission related item?
Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp
Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....

But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....

And killing a mtu?
I mean...why?
Just because you can?
Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......

Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment.....


They're trying to provoke you into shooting them since in both cases they get a Suspect timer. Then they either turn around and kill you in their PvP fitted ship or they blow up, go get a PvP fitted ship, and kill you.

In either case this is an absolutely intended interaction of mechanics... as is complaining on the forums. I'm sure if whoever was messing with your mission running is reading this they're laughing their behind off at how much they got under your skin.

My suggestion, go fit up a PvP fit on your mission hull and turn the tables on them.
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
#9 - 2016-12-29 14:55:11 UTC
Akis Talanas wrote:
And what about stealing the mission related item? ... this is no pvp

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

This should be called "PvC:" Player versus Cattle.

I'll leave it to you to figure out which category you belong to.

Happy Holidays! Big smile
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2016-12-29 15:02:41 UTC
Anyway. No, MTU killing and stealing loot items are NOT considered harassment by the support staff or devs.

If you suspect harassment or have been harassed, open a support ticket under the harassment category, and you will get an official response and/or action.

As you can see on the forums, this is a PVP game where your ship pixels can explode or be stolen simply "for fun", and players can and WILL take all the actions that the game allows them to take, including blowing up ships, taking items, scamming, spying, killing your pod, making fun of you on the forums, etc.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#11 - 2016-12-29 15:09:16 UTC
You agree to anything going when you log into the New Eden universe. They have a vague defense against what is real harassment or not.

Quote:


You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game. You may report any instances of such behavior to CCP. CCP will investigate and take such measures as CCP, in its sole judgment, determines are reasonable under the circumstances. CCP does not guarantee that you will not encounter behavior of others that you may view as insulting, demeaning, offensive, threatening or harassing. You assume all risk associated with playing the Game, and CCP assumes no responsibility for the conduct of any other players, and shall not be liable to you or any other person for their conduct.




Your definition of harassment is not the kind of harassment CCP is looking for. If it was ongoing personal insults or attacks, I think that's more what they are looking at keeping policed.


Quote:


This End User License Agreement ("EULA") describes the terms and conditions under which you may (i) install and use the Software; and (ii) subscribe to, access and use EVE online. CCP may amend this EULA from time to time by posting an amended version at http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp. If you accept this EULA, the then-current version of this EULA shall apply each time you access the System or play EVE.



By using this software you are also agreeing to all of the EULA.

Sorry about the MTU! Smile

@lunettelulu7

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-12-29 15:16:54 UTC
>implying eve morality is the same as RL morality

Okay this is going way out-of-game but these types of problems experienced by some come from the FALSE idea that the real world, or eves virtual world, should follow the set of morals that you personally hold. In truth, there is no such thing as fair, or right. People often take what they want without thinking how it affects others. That's just life.

Adjust your perception from 'what is fair' to 'what am I capable of doing' and you'll be on the right track. If you're a small guy you won't be capable of much, but you'll at least be able to make it a hassle for anyone who wants to attack you.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#13 - 2016-12-29 15:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Akis Talanas wrote:
Just a simple question because i find it surely is....

And what about stealing the mission related item?
Both are not "PVP actions" they are just intended to ruin the mission for the missionrunner....and this is no pvp
Sure one can "rebuy" the mission critical object....even in space from the thief....

But this is one of the things that really goes to far in my eyes and should be banned.....

And killing a mtu?
I mean...why?
Just because you can?
Great reasoning.....at least wait if someone picks it up......

Both actions are -as said- no pvp and should stop because there is no other sense in it than the pure definition of harrasment.....


Killing MTUs surely is not harassment. Anyone can scoop their own MTU at any time and ignore the flashy yellow ship on their overview. Make no mistake though, this is PVP, and working entirely as intended. There is nothing stopping you from making friends and having them come help kill him, running your missions in PVP fits, or learning how to PVP in this PVP game. Your missions are not protected areas. If they were, they would be instanced, but this isn't WoW, it's EVE Online.

Also, people who leave MTUs lying around clutter up my dscan. It's annoying and I will kill them whenever I see them.

This is a hard game. Not 'hard' as in difficult, but 'hard' as in 'for people who eat concrete'. You need to harden up, and adapt to it, if you want to enjoy it. And you will enjoy it if you adapt, I guarantee it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#14 - 2016-12-29 15:31:49 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
OP, have we met?
Just curious.

In my slow times I subside off of a steady diet of MTU's and liberated Damsels.


You soloed a raven in a (navy)frigate? https://zkillboard.com/kill/54492144/
Guess those were some delicious tears.



Bjorn Tyrson
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#15 - 2016-12-29 16:13:12 UTC
MTU killing is not harassment. It is content creation.
Princess Adhara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-12-29 16:32:09 UTC
MTU manufacturers have to make a living, too
Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-12-29 17:46:55 UTC
Akis Talanas wrote:

And killing a mtu?
I mean...why?
Just because you can?
Great reasoning...


In Eve that's pretty much the only reason that matters. The rest of it is fluff and justification.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#18 - 2016-12-29 17:53:06 UTC
I consider your post to be harassment, OP.

Watching someone be this much of a wimp in public is making me feel very triggered.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Pix Severus
Empty You
#19 - 2016-12-29 17:56:51 UTC
Welcome to the world of emergent gameplay, where players are allowed to do whatever they want, including things that don't fit neatly into your little categories of "PvP" and "Not PvP".

(Spoilers: Everything in EVE is PvP, whether you want it or not.)

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Salvos Rhoska
#20 - 2016-12-29 17:58:42 UTC
Princess Adhara wrote:
MTU manufacturers have to make a living, too

This is a central point.
Unfortunately, I dont think OP will understand its crucial implications to EVE.
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