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CONCORD delaying

Author
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#1 - 2016-11-11 12:35:18 UTC
1-What is considered as CONCORD delaying?
2-What types of it are classified as exploits (if any)?

I'd love to get a clear answer on the subject from CCP since I heard a rumor players we warned/banned because of that.

Thanks

P.s. this is more of an academic inquiry than anything else, I'm genuinely curious.

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

renwahh
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-11-11 12:40:06 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
1-What is considered as CONCORD delaying?
2-What types of it are classified as exploits (if any)?

I'd love to get a clear answer on the subject from CCP since I heard a rumor players we warned/banned because of that.

Thanks

P.s. this is more of an academic inquiry than anything else, I'm genuinely curious.


Isnt it where pirates warp to one gate causing concord to spawn there then they attack the freighter etc on the other gate to slow the response time? thus getting more dps in before concord asploed them?
Savoycabbage
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2016-11-11 12:49:59 UTC
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response

That kinda covers the exploit side of it I think.

As far as I'm aware (having never actually suicide ganked anyone), drawing Concord to another location prior to a gank is not an exploit and is considered to be a valid tactic.

edit. google is your friend Smile
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#4 - 2016-11-11 12:58:40 UTC
Savoycabbage wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response

That kinda covers the exploit side of it I think.

As far as I'm aware (having never actually suicide ganked anyone), drawing Concord to another location prior to a gank is not an exploit and is considered to be a valid tactic.

edit. google is your friend Smile

I read that when it came out, but the only thing I'm aware that gankers do is "pulling" concord on a station after they gank (by undocking in rookie ships)

That has always been legal unless there was a ninja change somewhere

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Savoycabbage
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2016-11-11 13:09:03 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Savoycabbage wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response

That kinda covers the exploit side of it I think.

As far as I'm aware (having never actually suicide ganked anyone), drawing Concord to another location prior to a gank is not an exploit and is considered to be a valid tactic.

edit. google is your friend Smile

I read that when it came out, but the only thing I'm aware that gankers do is "pulling" concord on a station after they gank (by undocking in rookie ships)

That has always been legal unless there was a ninja change somewhere


From what I can find reading up on it, the legitimate way of delaying concord is to trigger a concord spawn off grid from where you want to gank. This can delay concord arriving to another gank site by up to 5 or 6 seconds in 0.5 or 0.6 systems.

I think there are bugs in the system which allowed gankers to delay their death once concord were on grid. Those were the ones considered exploits and garnered bans
Doddy
Excidium.
#6 - 2016-11-11 13:20:16 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Savoycabbage wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response

That kinda covers the exploit side of it I think.

As far as I'm aware (having never actually suicide ganked anyone), drawing Concord to another location prior to a gank is not an exploit and is considered to be a valid tactic.

edit. google is your friend Smile

I read that when it came out, but the only thing I'm aware that gankers do is "pulling" concord on a station after they gank (by undocking in rookie ships)

That has always been legal unless there was a ninja change somewhere


Using anything to delay Concord is an exploit. This does not include somebody else pulling concord by committing a crime on the other side of the system, that is legitimate. The exploit is anything you, the individual player, does to delay concord arriving or destroying you using your flag. This includes mass abandoning flagged drones or jettisoning flagged ships etc.

So you can't solo a freighter while concord is chewing through a couple of hundred shuttles.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#7 - 2016-11-11 13:32:35 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Savoycabbage wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response

That kinda covers the exploit side of it I think.

As far as I'm aware (having never actually suicide ganked anyone), drawing Concord to another location prior to a gank is not an exploit and is considered to be a valid tactic.

edit. google is your friend Smile

I read that when it came out, but the only thing I'm aware that gankers do is "pulling" concord on a station after they gank (by undocking in rookie ships)

That has always been legal unless there was a ninja change somewhere


Using anything to delay Concord is an exploit. This does not include somebody else pulling concord by committing a crime on the other side of the system, that is legitimate. The exploit is anything you, the individual player, does to delay concord arriving or destroying you using your flag. This includes mass abandoning flagged drones or jettisoning flagged ships etc.

So you can't solo a freighter while concord is chewing through a couple of hundred shuttles.

I'm aware (like a gankers) that you can't abandon ships and such before going gcc
That's the article Savoy linked.

But pulling has always been legit unless something was changed and unannounced

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Doddy
Excidium.
#8 - 2016-11-11 13:39:37 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Savoycabbage wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response

That kinda covers the exploit side of it I think.

As far as I'm aware (having never actually suicide ganked anyone), drawing Concord to another location prior to a gank is not an exploit and is considered to be a valid tactic.

edit. google is your friend Smile

I read that when it came out, but the only thing I'm aware that gankers do is "pulling" concord on a station after they gank (by undocking in rookie ships)

That has always been legal unless there was a ninja change somewhere


Using anything to delay Concord is an exploit. This does not include somebody else pulling concord by committing a crime on the other side of the system, that is legitimate. The exploit is anything you, the individual player, does to delay concord arriving or destroying you using your flag. This includes mass abandoning flagged drones or jettisoning flagged ships etc.

So you can't solo a freighter while concord is chewing through a couple of hundred shuttles.

I'm aware (like a gankers) that you can't abandon ships and such before going gcc
That's the article Savoy linked.

But pulling has always been legit unless something was changed and unannounced


Pulling is fine, are you just not reading what people are telling you? Pulling has no impact on normal concord mechanics. it is not relying on concord deciding to shoot items or unpiloted ships before the agressing pilot.

If people got banned for just pulling and hadn't done any jettisoning or abandoning it would be the first I heard of it.
Paranoid Loyd
#9 - 2016-11-11 16:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
It was a while back now, but I pissed someone off so he decided to use and exploit to get back at me, not sure how he was doing it (pretty sure it had something to do with a bowhead) but he was able to warp while criminal. It may be referring to doing this but not sure.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Black Pedro
Mine.
#10 - 2016-11-11 19:45:31 UTC
My understanding is that notice by Falcon refers to the technique of 'superhyperdunking' that was pioneered by Globby where he would deploy dozens or hundreds of shuttles or rookie ships that were owned by him on-grid before a gank so that when he went criminal CONCORD would often spend a significant amount of time shooting the unpiloted ships before getting around to shooting him.

As you can imagine this is pretty exploit-y and was ruled verboten. Don't do that. But shooting something else in system and spawning/moving CONCORD? Totally legit. Do do that and keep shooting the complacent and clueless. It is your duty as an Eve player to do so.
Aaaarrggs Scout Alt
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#11 - 2016-11-11 22:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaaarrggs Scout Alt
Black Pedro wrote:
My understanding is that notice by Falcon refers to the technique of 'superhyperdunking' that was pioneered by Globby where he would deploy dozens or hundreds of shuttles or rookie ships that were owned by him on-grid before a gank so that when he went criminal CONCORD would often spend a significant amount of time shooting the unpiloted ships before getting around to shooting him.


pretty sure no one sensible has done this since it was declared an exploit and hardly any one did it before as it was clearly an obvious exploit.

but a quick relevant question could a -10 actually do this in high sec, not just in theory but in practise when setting up ganks consistently , either solo or in a large fleet, I suspect not. but if you can prove me wrong ill stand corrected

As you can imagine this is pretty exploit-y and was ruled verboten. Don't do that. But shooting something else in system and spawning/moving CONCORD? Totally legit. Do do that and keep shooting the complacent and clueless. It is your duty as an Eve player to do so.


I will keep shooting non compliant's and legally moving concord :)

until CCP decides Pulling Concord is an exploit
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#12 - 2016-11-11 22:39:25 UTC
If pulling concord was an exploit they would simply make it not a thing. That their response times are based on sec status should mean this mechanic is actually intended...

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Raca Pyrrea
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-11-11 22:55:52 UTC
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response


Exploit Notification - Delaying CONCORD Response
2015-09-04 14:25 By CCP Falcon

We would like to inform players that distracting CONCORD by jettisoning ships or other items into space to distract them from attacking the perpetrator of a criminal act is now considered an exploit.

As of the date and time stamp of this message, this practice is now considered an abuse of the criminal flagging system, and will be actioned as an exploit under our suspension and ban policy.

This ruling follows a previous announcement by customer support regarding the use of drones for this tactic in 2012.


Reminder: This announcement concerns a specific method of delaying Concord's response time to the scene of a crime. We would like to clarify that all methods of delaying Concord's response time are considered an exploit.
Aaaarrggs Scout Alt
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#14 - 2016-11-11 23:08:58 UTC
Raca Pyrrea wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response


Exploit Notification - Delaying CONCORD Response
2015-09-04 14:25 By CCP Falcon

We would like to inform players that distracting CONCORD by jettisoning ships or other items into space to distract them from attacking the perpetrator of a criminal act is now considered an exploit.

As of the date and time stamp of this message, this practice is now considered an abuse of the criminal flagging system, and will be actioned as an exploit under our suspension and ban policy.

This ruling follows a previous announcement by customer support regarding the use of drones for this tactic in 2012.


Reminder: This announcement concerns a specific method of delaying Concord's response time to the scene of a crime. We would like to clarify that all methods of delaying Concord's response time are considered an exploit.



nothing new there (2012 and 2015 lol) and relating to obvious exploits that no one uses, i would point you towards my last post

but no matter how much you Carebears cry Pulling Concord isn't an exploit
Black Pedro
Mine.
#15 - 2016-11-12 07:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Aaaarrggs Scout Alt wrote:
Raca Pyrrea wrote:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response


Exploit Notification - Delaying CONCORD Response
2015-09-04 14:25 By CCP Falcon

We would like to inform players that distracting CONCORD by jettisoning ships or other items into space to distract them from attacking the perpetrator of a criminal act is now considered an exploit.

As of the date and time stamp of this message, this practice is now considered an abuse of the criminal flagging system, and will be actioned as an exploit under our suspension and ban policy.

This ruling follows a previous announcement by customer support regarding the use of drones for this tactic in 2012.


Reminder: This announcement concerns a specific method of delaying Concord's response time to the scene of a crime. We would like to clarify that all methods of delaying Concord's response time are considered an exploit.



nothing new there (2012 and 2015 lol) and relating to obvious exploits that no one uses, i would point you towards my last post

but no matter how much you Carebears cry Pulling Concord isn't an exploit
And this has been confirmed directly by CCP several times before including:

GM Lelouch wrote:
Hello all,

In order to clear up our current stance concerning this mechanic, I'm going to attach the ticket response I sent to Benny Ohu:


We do not consider intentionally spawning CONCORD using disposable ships an exploit at this time. This is, like all policies, subject to change in the future if deemed necessary for some reason, but we have no current plans to make any changes to this stance.

To put our stance quite clearly, we currently make no distinction between these two scenarios:

a. Suicide gank. CONCORD is spawned because Player A attacks Player B without the rights to do so.
b. Defensive spawning. CONCORD is spawned because Player A's alt character attacks Player A without the rights to do so.

My best guess would be that the confusion stems from different rules having been broken. There are two exploits of sorts which I can think of which could have led to warnings being placed in a scenario similar to "b" above.

1. Alt character recycling. It is considered a violation to recycle alt characters and/or trial accounts to bypass negative consequences. In this case, the consequences being escaped would be the standing hit for performing an unlawful attack in CONCORD protected space.
2. Escaping CONCORD retribution. If a player somehow manages to prevent destruction at the hand of CONCORD after performing an unlawful attack, then it is an exploit. We are currently not aware of any such exploits, but there have been ways to do this in the past which have since been fixed.


Honestly, the current form of CONCORD is a pretty silly mechanic and a legacy of a past age where you could actually interact with them. Their current omnipotent and infallible form adds little to the game, not even immersion given their stupidity and predictability. Just having engines explode after a given number of seconds would be sufficient to impose a cost on highsec aggression.

But we have what we have so keep on moving those dull-witted space police around and committing your space shenanigans as the game designers intend.
Azov Rassau
The Hornets Cartel
Deep Space Alliance
#16 - 2016-11-12 11:58:23 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Honestly, the current form of CONCORD is a pretty silly mechanic and a legacy of a past age where you could actually interact with them. Thier current omnipotent and infallible form adds little to the game, not even immersion given thier stupidity and predictability.

In some cases, the stupid CONCORD is not even needed. Two days ago, we saved a Hulk by applying heavy DPS & ECM on two gankers long before CONCORD's arrival. It was a fun moment and a cool example of a sudden encounter between gankers and anti-gankers (real players). 20 seconds later, CONCORD arrived and ruined all the fun.

Who needs NPC police when you have real players reacting to the criminals? Twisted

Be the change you want to see in Highsec.

Anti-Ganking Fun: www.gankerjamming.com

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-11-13 04:09:40 UTC
In my last gank, I could have probably warped off to the sun and returned before CONCORD showed up to shoot at me. Now can you actually gank someone and warp off before CONCORD lands on grid? And what happens if you do?

That I am curious about when I ganked a Venture with a Gank Atron and two-shotted him before he could do anything. Lol
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#18 - 2016-11-13 04:55:58 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
In my last gank, I could have probably warped off to the sun and returned before CONCORD showed up to shoot at me. Now can you actually gank someone and warp off before CONCORD lands on grid? And what happens if you do?

That I am curious about when I ganked a Venture with a Gank Atron and two-shotted him before he could do anything. Lol

If you manage to successfuly avoid concord CCP give you a nice reward for your troubles Twisted

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#19 - 2016-11-13 08:38:41 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
In my last gank, I could have probably warped off to the sun and returned before CONCORD showed up to shoot at me. Now can you actually gank someone and warp off before CONCORD lands on grid? And what happens if you do?

That I am curious about when I ganked a Venture with a Gank Atron and two-shotted him before he could do anything. Lol

If you manage to successfuly avoid concord CCP give you a nice reward for your troubles Twisted

Is it a hug? \o/
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#20 - 2016-11-13 14:41:53 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
In my last gank, I could have probably warped off to the sun and returned before CONCORD showed up to shoot at me. Now can you actually gank someone and warp off before CONCORD lands on grid? And what happens if you do?

That I am curious about when I ganked a Venture with a Gank Atron and two-shotted him before he could do anything. Lol

If you manage to successfuly avoid concord CCP give you a nice reward for your troubles Twisted

Is it a hug? \o/

You can't escape Concordokken.
Your warp drive is disabled as soon as you go criminal (in highsec), but
You can warp if you're in a pod

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

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