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Fleet Formations - Can we have pls

Author
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-10-31 11:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Looking at the EvE trailers.. all the battles with ships lined up..... they look cool. its a pity EvE doesnt really look like that.. but CCP could make space battles look cooler... how ? with formations. P

Most fleet members either keep at range or orbit their FC and press f1 when told.

What if we had formation buttons each member could press as well. Would make fleet fights look way better and could offer interesting tactical gameplay as well

formation 1 - gives x bonus and incurs y penalty
formation 2 - gives x bonus and incurs y penalty
etc etc

If 10% or more of the fleet (or wing) is not in formation then the formation bonus isnt applied.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#2 - 2016-10-31 12:03:39 UTC
With EVE's "Everything is a sphere" physics system it would purely be cosmetic, and actually could even be counter-productive in terms of large-fleet composition.

EVE would need more directional weapons systems for it to become effective. The new doomsdays and bombers are a great example of things which require more user involvement than anchor + F1 due to the consequences of them being directional and killing the wrong fleet if you get them wrong.

I'd love to see direction being more relevant in game. Then formations might be worthwhile.
Memphis Baas
#3 - 2016-10-31 12:13:01 UTC
Yeah, the ranges for a lot of the effects in EVE are very very short, which is why you're seeing these very tightly packed balls. IMO, before they implement formations, CCP would have to change a lot of the effects, from remote repairs to ewar, to have an effect on the fleet (regardless of distance), rather than be distance-based.

Regarding your specific idea of formations giving different bonuses and penalties, I'm assuming the bonuses won't kick in until the fleet rearranges itself into the new formation, correct? So a bunch of frigates going from X to V happens pretty fast; a bunch of titans trying to slowboat from X to V formation will take a while, no? Subject to bumping, too.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#4 - 2016-10-31 19:23:28 UTC
EVE doesn't use real physics mechanics much.

Fleet Formations would be 'pretty' but otherwise meaningless. Ships barely even recognize each other as physical objects, even then, only when they 'bump'. Other than that, you can shoot through anything in between.

So, while the idea is admirable, I'd hope we'd get some real physics mechanics first, then worry about how nice we look when we are bunched up.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#5 - 2016-10-31 20:06:24 UTC
+1.

Lets add line of sight, friendly fire and ways to build fleet formations to the game.

Remove standings and insurance.

permion
No One In Local
#6 - 2016-10-31 22:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: permion
I'd like for FC to be able(and promote people to) mark players and add a sphere of influence that they have when tactical map is up, viewable to all players in fleet.

take logi anchor and backup anchor and add a sphere of influence of the range of the logi.
Take damage anchor and add a sphere of influence to indicate attack range.
Grant draw permission to your Theorist so that they can mark spheres of influence of enemy ships after he figures out their fit.
Mark someone in the near the center of the fleet and add a 30KM sphere of influence around them to indicate where bombers are likely to show up at.

Right now the tactical overlay is not very good for showing the ranges of any ship but your own. But it'd be sweet if you/your fleet could input ranges of other ships into it.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2016-11-01 00:08:50 UTC
Quick everyone! Penis formation!
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-11-01 01:40:44 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Quick everyone! Penis formation!



And that is why custom implementation of many things are rarely allowed.

The childish behavior of many adults in this game.

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#9 - 2016-11-01 03:14:59 UTC
Physical bumping damage, line of sight, friendly fire when los is obscured... implement these and the server would melt but formations would become desirable.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-11-01 03:33:54 UTC
Don't forget forward tank stronger than flank or aft tank, so orientation matters.
Danixex Gosu
Burning Skies
Apocalypse Now.
#11 - 2016-11-01 18:39:35 UTC
No this is a terrible idea because people's skills dictate how fast people move. Making them all move in formation would break aspect.
Memphis Baas
#12 - 2016-11-02 02:30:16 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
And that is why custom implementation of many things are rarely allowed. The childish behavior of many adults in this game.


In all fairness, the aforementioned formation can be achieved right now, with little effort. With fleets, AND with bubbles. It's not like the "custom implementation" would bring anything that isn't in the game already.
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-11-02 03:12:50 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
And that is why custom implementation of many things are rarely allowed. The childish behavior of many adults in this game.


In all fairness, the aforementioned formation can be achieved right now, with little effort. With fleets, AND with bubbles. It's not like the "custom implementation" would bring anything that isn't in the game already.



The difference is players taking individual action to achieve such a display and...

The game giving you a "custom option" to save such a display.


The point is this immature behavior by many players limiting what custom tools CCP is willing to give us in many aspects of the game. But that is life, and why we can't do custom skins for ships and need an approval process for any Alliance logos and such.



Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
The Initiative.
#14 - 2016-11-02 06:21:56 UTC
The sphere is the superior form in a 3D space. The spatial distribution allows for quite a few formations. Just recall wrecking ball for example.
Line of fire.... Pffffff... can I bring my Drake?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-11-02 06:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Eli Stan wrote:
Don't forget forward tank stronger than flank or aft tank, so orientation matters.


Not on gallente ships. Gallentean ships traditionally have the strongest armor plating in the rears, to afford protection while retreating.

As for the suggestion: I can only imagine the nightmare of code even TRYING to code this, let alone of how much it would break pvp in the game if players were trying to form themselves into formations. If you think ccp is ever going to give squad or wing commanders a button that moves ships around them on the grid, you're absolutely insane. CCP has been trying as hard as possible to force people to actually control their ships, instead of being controlled by a squad commander.
Steffles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-11-02 11:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Steffles
Sentient Blade wrote:
With EVE's "Everything is a sphere" physics system it would purely be cosmetic, and actually could even be counter-productive in terms of large-fleet composition.

EVE would need more directional weapons systems for it to become effective. The new doomsdays and bombers are a great example of things which require more user involvement than anchor + F1 due to the consequences of them being directional and killing the wrong fleet if you get them wrong.

I'd love to see direction being more relevant in game. Then formations might be worthwhile.

Everything being a sphere doesn't matter. A T3D is a sphere too, when you change a T3D from Defensive to Sharpshooter mode its all imagination and glitter. When you seige a dread, its all imagination and glitter. When you activate a command module same thing.

Its all fanciful pretend nonesense.

So implementing a pretend fanciful formation and applying bonuses / penalties is no different at all and would actually look and be cool.


Danixex Gosu wrote:
No this is a terrible idea because people's skills dictate how fast people move. Making them all move in formation would break aspect.

Eh no it wouldn't. Just like when a fleet commander takes partial control over your ship that control ends as soon as you give a command. If a fleet commander ordered a formation and you needed to tackle, or do something that would break the formation you could easily do so at any time after that command was given, much like you can cancel a fleet warp command before you warp.


Arronicus wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Don't forget forward tank stronger than flank or aft tank, so orientation matters.


Not on gallente ships. Gallentean ships traditionally have the strongest armor plating in the rears, to afford protection while retreating.

As for the suggestion: I can only imagine the nightmare of code even TRYING to code this, let alone of how much it would break pvp in the game if players were trying to form themselves into formations. If you think ccp is ever going to give squad or wing commanders a button that moves ships around them on the grid, you're absolutely insane. CCP has been trying as hard as possible to force people to actually control their ships, instead of being controlled by a squad commander.

I doubt the coding would be very difficult.

Assuming traditional formations, FC in central position, larger in closer with smaller ships out to the edges. Lets say its a traditional terran anti-aircraft formation.

Server commands

Battleships orbit FC at 5, battlecruisers orbit FC at 10, Cruisers orbit FC at 15, dessies, frigates, inties orbit fc at 25. When they all reach those distances a simple align to FC's direction of travel creates the formation.

So server sends 1 command to each ship class and then an align to command

1 Orbit 5
2 Orbit 10
3 Orbit 15
4 Orbit 25
5 When at requested ranges align to FC direction.

Very simple

Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg

viziel
Sarum Industrial Cartel
#17 - 2016-11-04 20:02:03 UTC
Just for the sake of PvE mission running in small fleets myself and my corp mates have always wanted this feature.

For various reasons we may not want the smallest glass cannon to go into the pocket first. So we manually have to handle the deployment of ships. We also enjoy it when, on the rare, chance we all warp off as a group.

Formations though not technically useful, they are visually pleasing like so many things in EvE. I would use this feature if I could.
Reminds me of Earth and Beyond.