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Dev blog: Clone States - Post CSM Summit Roundup

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-10-07 16:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Clone states will allow all past and future players to play EVE for free for as long as they want. In this third dev blog about Clone States, we would like to give you answer questions you had.

The CSM, collecting community feedback and raising various concerns, and their most recent CSM summit in Reykjavik, were of great value. What about Alpha accounts doing planetary interaction? Industry? How is the transition being handled from Omega to Alpha, can you still access your PI farms? What about POS management with Alpha accounts?

Learn more about the this in the latest blog Clone States - Post CSM Summit Roundup!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2016-10-07 16:41:47 UTC
If you're adding skills to the alpha set, can we also get higher levels of the Warp Drive Activation skill? Warping even moderate distances without the skill trained to 4/5, especially with bad capacitor support skills in t1 frigates, is extremely punishing and makes for some really unfun gameplay sitting in the middle of space waiting for your cap to recharge.
Reckoning Star Alliance
#3 - 2016-10-07 16:41:50 UTC
+1 gazillion for alphas getting gas harvesting
#4 - 2016-10-07 16:44:34 UTC
Sounds good and seems balanced.

Looking forward to November.
#5 - 2016-10-07 16:46:28 UTC
Sone i dont se any Point in subing anymore the alpha clones are gona be just fine whit out subing..

They get more and more skill they can do more and more, get acess to more and more of the game.

And we that pay for the game gona get more gankers, more mission item ninja looters, and all i se is a big - on beeing a sub atm.

Atlest they should force all alphas to have green safty on in high sec,
Tactical-Retreat
#6 - 2016-10-07 16:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Everything looks good.

I'm glad you guys agreed on most of these things. Now the only (BIG) point remaining is to ensure that nobody can log multiple EVE accounts if one of them is an Alpha.

Now eagerly waiting for the Industry devblog, the NPE devblog, and please dont forget to announce your brand new plan for buddy invites...

Destoya wrote:
If you're adding skills to the alpha set, can we also get higher levels of the Warp Drive Activation skill? Warping even moderate distances without the skill trained to 4/5, especially with bad capacitor support skills in t1 frigates, is extremely punishing and makes for some really unfun gameplay sitting in the middle of space waiting for your cap to recharge.


While not super mega fun, I can see how it provides a sense of geography and some cleverly exploitable depth.
To give a silly example: if alphas grouping together to a point where they become a substantial threat level in a system, becomes a thing, it would be interesting to use large systems to escape from them.

It would give more parameters to chose from when picking a system to base your entity out of, to plan your trip with a fleet composed of Alphas, etc...

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2016-10-07 16:52:27 UTC
Overall, very nice changes. Everything seems to be in good order and good feedback.


Destoya wrote:
If you're adding skills to the alpha set, can we also get higher levels of the Warp Drive Activation skill? Warping even moderate distances without the skill trained to 4/5, especially with bad capacitor support skills in t1 frigates, is extremely punishing and makes for some really unfun gameplay sitting in the middle of space waiting for your cap to recharge.


I agree here. I do not believe that skill unlocks anything special, so it would make sense to add the ability to train it to 4 or 5. Normally I would say adding support skills would not be something to do often, but in this case it does make sense. Even in high sec, some warps will cause issues.
#8 - 2016-10-07 16:53:08 UTC
Devblog wrote:
If you lapse to Alpha, you will keep ownership of your colonies and they will keep running, but you won’t be able to collect any resources from them until going back to Omega State.

Can you be more specific?

Hey! I don't know about you

but I'm joining CTRL-Q

#9 - 2016-10-07 16:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Overcoming alfa login include :
- using multiple PC ?
- internet connections ?

What about science industry jobs.
Can alfa be blocked to install / deliver jobs for corporation?

For years this is the simple and still working abuse of this system.
Create alts, get them to corporation, install long time jobs for corporation and deliver it from other corporate char while while character starting them is unsubscribed for months.

PI alts, maybe - have you considered introducing high NPC PI tax on all POCOS ?
I can be wrong, but ability to make more money (or actually make money ) on the PI can persuade some people to subscribe.
#10 - 2016-10-07 17:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne Dieu-le-veut
Welisa Aldent wrote:
Sone i dont se any Point in subing anymore the alpha clones are gona be just fine whit out subing..

They get more and more skill they can do more and more, get acess to more and more of the game.

And we that pay for the game gona get more gankers, more mission item ninja looters, and all i se is a big - on beeing a sub atm.

Atlest they should force all alphas to have green safty on in high sec,


Just as easy for an anti-ganker make an alpha account to fight them, but I guess that requires doing something other than expecting CCP to save you.

Helene Fidard wrote:
Devblog wrote:
If you lapse to Alpha, you will keep ownership of your colonies and they will keep running, but you won’t be able to collect any resources from them until going back to Omega State.

Can you be more specific?


You can't export any of your PI materials until you are a sub.
#11 - 2016-10-07 17:10:41 UTC
Is there truly any further benefit on keeping the drone skill tied to the number of drones you can deploy?
At this point in time it would make sense to change the skill to a 2% per level damage increase ( while reducing the base damage to compensate so that they have neither a buff or loss in DPS) and allow for 5 drones from the start.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

ChaosTheory.
#12 - 2016-10-07 17:16:26 UTC
Well done CCP.
Blades of Grass
#13 - 2016-10-07 17:18:49 UTC
Disallowing Alpha clones from fuelling starbases is a good move but I have to ask how it is being achieved.

Preventing them from having relevant roles is not going to work as you can set POS fuelling permissions to be open to corp or even alliance. I know this is a headache for CCP but I needs flagging up sooner rather than later.
#14 - 2016-10-07 17:31:47 UTC
I'd like to welcome all the SP farmers....seriously. Why limit PI but leave a gaping hole with people having as many SP alts as you care to have?

You can make the argument that SP income would be limited vs PI, but will it? Really? I mean I could have 50 SP alts rotating around and extracting 600M ISK every 8.5 days per account. That's 30 BIL every 8.5 days based on current prices and 2500 sp/hr. The number can be adjusted based on might be allowed, etc. But that amount of "passive" income is tremendous.

Now granted, the skill injector market will absolutely crash and will normalize. Maybe that's what CCP is intending....
#15 - 2016-10-07 17:32:50 UTC
I guess I am in the minority, I would rather see people be able to multibox as many alpha accounts as they wish.

I also don't like the change with the industry tax for alphas. I would rather like to see Limits gone for everyone in all industry job tasks. There is already a mechanic for charging more isk for more job installs at stations. If people go crazy the job costs go crazy and they would have to move around. No need for taxes..

If High Sec ganking is a issue, make it so anyone with a certain Negative Sec standings cant not dock anymore in any high sec NPC station. Let Citadel owners have a sec rating option to allow or disallow based on sec rating. If groups of people are ganking and using a citadel, now people have a target to go after instead of gankers hiding in npc stations.
#16 - 2016-10-07 17:59:28 UTC
Tavi Itonula wrote:
I'd like to welcome all the SP farmers....seriously. Why limit PI but leave a gaping hole with people having as many SP alts as you care to have?

You can make the argument that SP income would be limited vs PI, but will it? Really? I mean I could have 50 SP alts rotating around and extracting 600M ISK every 8.5 days per account. That's 30 BIL every 8.5 days based on current prices and 2500 sp/hr. The number can be adjusted based on might be allowed, etc. But that amount of "passive" income is tremendous.

Now granted, the skill injector market will absolutely crash and will normalize. Maybe that's what CCP is intending....

Re-read a few of the dev blogs on it. Alpha chars won't be able to extract alpha skills. This means that you'll have to (1) sub to extract alpha skills, (2) sub to train non-alpha skills you can then extract, or (3) extract skills you trained when you had subbed previously.

There's probably going to be a dip in their price, no doubt, when this first goes live, and it'll probably stay down for the first few months, but it's unlikely to crash and even less likely to be permanent.

Remember: alpha's currently will only have ~5 mil SP (even with the bump to Drones V), but you need 5.5 mil at a minimum to extract. You aren't going to be able to train to an extractable level to get a "freebie" in when you sub.
RvB - BLUE Republic
#17 - 2016-10-07 18:00:14 UTC
Congratulations on a successful summit. The alpha changes all seem reasonable. I still recommend adding Armor Rigging for Minmatar since several of their ships can be armor tanked well enough. Would also like to know what skills the alphas will start with so we can get suitable ships ready for them on day 1.

Former Blue CEO, admirer of Caracals (and Tristans)

Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-10-07 18:04:51 UTC
Quote:
restrictions that keep any Alpha account from passing character select if another EVE client is already active

But if I first login with Alpha, and then Omega?
#19 - 2016-10-07 18:07:28 UTC
"The CSM’s number one focus for Clone States matched the biggest concern from general player feedback: simultaneous Alpha clone logon must be limited...
There are two reasons to make this kind of restriction.
The first and most obvious reason is the potential for abuse and exploitation.
The second, which the CSM focused on heavily, is that we don’t want to create a situation where normal players feel obligated to run Alpha alts."

Why am I not surprised about this outcome from a CSM that strictly represent the high-end players, the PLooNS of the game, with the agenda of protecting their interests, and not the interests of new or more casual players.

let's talk about "the potential for abuse and exploitation".
What kind of abuse and exploitation would the multiple login of Alpha brings that multiple login of Omega does not bring?

As for the second point
"we don’t want to create a situation where normal players feel obligated to run Alpha alts."

LOL... I like the use of the term "normal"...
Frankly, which player in the CSM is not running more than one account, if not half a dozen or even a dozen? None.

There is no normal player in the CSM, and yet they somehow assume that making normal players feeling obligated to run Alpha alts would be bad. So the nature of the game of alts they are taking full advantage of is being denied to "normal" players, as Alphas won't be able to multibox.

Clearly, this is another succesful attempt from established, long time players to protect their own advantages in-game rather than welcoming the newer or more casual players in the game of alts.

What is more surprising is that CCP is playing along with that...


Candidate for CSM XII

#20 - 2016-10-07 18:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
Tavi Itonula wrote:
I'd like to welcome all the SP farmers....seriously. Why limit PI but leave a gaping hole with people having as many SP alts as you care to have?

You can make the argument that SP income would be limited vs PI, but will it? Really? I mean I could have 50 SP alts rotating around and extracting 600M ISK every 8.5 days per account. That's 30 BIL every 8.5 days based on current prices and 2500 sp/hr. The number can be adjusted based on might be allowed, etc. But that amount of "passive" income is tremendous.

Now granted, the skill injector market will absolutely crash and will normalize. Maybe that's what CCP is intending....

PI prices need to go down so that's not really a bad thing.

DaOpa wrote:
If High Sec ganking is a issue, make it so anyone with a certain Negative Sec standings cant not dock anymore in any high sec NPC station. Let Citadel owners have a sec rating option to allow or disallow based on sec rating. If groups of people are ganking and using a citadel, now people have a target to go after instead of gankers hiding in npc stations.

This is defnitely going to be an issue. The fact that they are letting it slide on the basis that it will be watched is BS. It will be an issue. Stop it before it gets out of hand. Having to sub has always been the limiting factor on how many accounts most can field within reason. Now, you can have as many gank characters as you wish and thanks to skill injectors and low sp requirements, it's not going to take very long either to train many accounts into gank catalysts and what not.
With 3 to 5 accounts full of gank toons, why do I have to bother about limits like aggression timers, when I can just log in the second or third or fifteenth toon at random then impact the game on a huge scale at very little cost to me?

Lock safety to green or yellow. If they want to pew, they should go to nullsec or wormhole space.
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