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Assault Frigates in small gang roams

Author
Fye'16
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-08-12 11:24:07 UTC
Hi all,

Are Assault Frigates worth training for use in small gang roams?

I've asked a few different people and some say yeah they're great, others say they're trash.

I don't know who to believe!

Also - MWD or Afterburners? The first ship I'll be flying in the class will be the Vengeance I think.

Thanks,

Fye
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#2 - 2016-08-12 11:26:50 UTC
yes harpy cancer fleets are fun

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#3 - 2016-08-12 11:50:53 UTC
The ishkur and enyo are ****ing badass at fighting upship.
Ishkur in particular can be fairly hard to kill when sigtanked.

Ofcorse t3's will go through you for a shortcut but those aside they are fine.

Exelent for tackeling big things as theycan tank very well fir frigates.

We used to be quite well known for killing battleships with them solo.

Again though, avoid t3's and the balance legion like the plauge, they will kill you.

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#4 - 2016-08-12 13:26:31 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The ishkur and enyo are ****ing badass at fighting upship.
Ishkur in particular can be fairly hard to kill when sigtanked.

Ofcorse t3's will go through you for a shortcut but those aside they are fine.

Exelent for tackeling big things as theycan tank very well fir frigates.

We used to be quite well known for killing battleships with them solo.

Again though, avoid t3's and the balance legion like the plauge, they will kill you.



you will be suprised how well a jaguar with a tracking disruptor can give a confessor a seriously hard time

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#5 - 2016-08-12 14:32:06 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The ishkur and enyo are ****ing badass at fighting upship.
Ishkur in particular can be fairly hard to kill when sigtanked.

Ofcorse t3's will go through you for a shortcut but those aside they are fine.

Exelent for tackeling big things as theycan tank very well fir frigates.

We used to be quite well known for killing battleships with them solo.

Again though, avoid t3's and the balance legion like the plauge, they will kill you.



you will be suprised how well a jaguar with a tracking disruptor can give a confessor a seriously hard time

Actualy yeah i can see that, the tracking on that thing was always a concern of mine,
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2016-08-12 17:28:34 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The ishkur and enyo are ****ing badass at fighting upship.
Ishkur in particular can be fairly hard to kill when sigtanked.

Ofcorse t3's will go through you for a shortcut but those aside they are fine.

Exelent for tackeling big things as theycan tank very well fir frigates.

We used to be quite well known for killing battleships with them solo.

Again though, avoid t3's and the balance legion like the plauge, they will kill you.



you will be suprised how well a jaguar with a tracking disruptor can give a confessor a seriously hard time

Actualy yeah i can see that, the tracking on that thing was always a concern of mine,

I almost beat a Confressor with a tanky Vengence once. I simply did not have the range control to keep him from escaping. Sad



Back to the OP's question though!

Assault Frigates are AWESOME when paired up with other frigates (especially fast ones). They are routinely underestimated, relatively nimble, do not hurt your wallet too much when you die, and come in many flavors.

However, they do have serious limitations.
- Some of them are slower than cruisers.
- Others are "one trick ponies" and lack any sort of flexibility.
- Tech 3 Destroyers are generally best avoided unless you know damn well what you are doing.
------ In fact, there is currently an issue where Tech 3 Destroyers eclipse most Assault Frigates in all respects.


With regards to the choice between a MWD or AB...

I would prefer to go with both! Both have their uses and "dual-proping" an Assault Frigate makes them fairly powerful.
However, it will consume a lot of your ship's PG-CPU... so be careful. If you want to stick with one prop mod for general use, go with the MWD.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#7 - 2016-08-12 17:49:10 UTC
In my limited experience, I would say it depends on what you are hunting.

If you are hunting other destroyers and frigates, then MWD is just fine. If you are hunting larger ships, AB is usually better since you can sig/speed tank anything larger. Dual prop seems common but it does burn another slot that might be used for something else, especially if you have to shield tank the ship. It's more common on armor tanked ships but Frigates don't have much tank anyway, so it's all a preference call.

T3 and specialized T2 ships are just nasty if they are fit to take you out. I saw a build for a T2 cruiser that looked like it was made to eat small gangs in frigates and destroyers, looked very capable at it too.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#8 - 2016-08-12 18:25:46 UTC
I would say yes, Assault Frigates are worth it. If you've got multiple racial Frigate skills at V you can unlock all the T2 versions at once with just the Assault Frigate skill. Assault Frigates to IV probably only takes 3 days or so.

If you're in a small gang and your target don't know that, they are probably much more likely to come after you as bait for your small gang if you're in 'just a Jaguar.'

I've used Assault Frigates to run DED sites and the Angel Epic Arc so there's alternate uses for them right there.

@lunettelulu7

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-08-12 19:34:19 UTC
Assault frigs are good. They're not complete roflstomp so you'll get more fights with an AF gang than with a T3D gang (duh), yet they're still considerably better than regular frigates. Very affordable to roam in too.

I'd say go for it! May I recommend bringing a Jaguar too? (otherwise, you'll soon discover you have no tackle at all LOL)

They're a tad slow but still a lot more agile than a T1 cruiser gang. Otherwise very comparable.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-08-12 19:36:36 UTC
Choice between AB/MWD mostly depends on where you fly. MWD rules everywhere except for sit-on-the-beacon-at-zero FW fights. There it's AB supremacy.

If you're going to afterburn your frig, might as well stick to T1- you're wasting your best bonus.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#11 - 2016-08-12 19:43:17 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I would say it depends...

Still literally the answer to every new question ever asked by a new player in the history of new players....or questions...


@ the OP - yes Assault frigates are good for many things, definitely train them. Even if they don't do what you want you'll already have all the skills to train into a t3 destroyer if you do decide you need one instead for whatever you are doing.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-08-12 20:22:11 UTC
I would say it depends what your gang needs the most at first.
Maybe they would be more happy to see you train for interceptors ? Ask them ;)
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#13 - 2016-08-12 23:44:53 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Choice between AB/MWD mostly depends on where you fly. MWD rules everywhere except for sit-on-the-beacon-at-zero FW fights. There it's AB supremacy.

If you're going to afterburn your frig, might as well stick to T1- you're wasting your best bonus.


Problem with MWD is the signature increase offsets much of the speed advantage. I don't know if it's break even or not. If you plan to orbit under your targets guns, usually AB is the better choice.

Of course, this debate back and forth explains dual propping entirely!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2016-08-12 23:48:54 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Choice between AB/MWD mostly depends on where you fly. MWD rules everywhere except for sit-on-the-beacon-at-zero FW fights. There it's AB supremacy.

If you're going to afterburn your frig, might as well stick to T1- you're wasting your best bonus.


Problem with MWD is the signature increase offsets much of the speed advantage. I don't know if it's break even or not. If you plan to orbit under your targets guns, usually AB is the better choice.

Of course, this debate back and forth explains dual propping entirely!

The MWD "signature bloom" is reduced by 50% on Assault Frigates. This can helps immensely if you are in the role of "heavy tackle."

But like you and everyone else said... it is situational. This is why I often recommend to "dual prop" (see: fit a MWD and AB) whenever possible in an Assault Frigate gang. It gives the best of both worlds... for the "small" price of less utility and CPU-Powergrid to spend on other modules.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2016-08-12 23:49:03 UTC
Agreed; most assault frigs however cannot dualprop (few midslots). And they do receive a hefty reduction to sigbloom so .....

let's just say that without MWD you're very unlikely to catch anything outside of FW plexes. Once you tackle a target, by all means turn it off- it's just there to get in range in the first place.

To make matters worse, the base speed of OP's frigate, the Vengeance, is so low that he'll barely be able to catch up to a battlecruiser at full burn WITH AN MWD. With an AB the fight will be long over before he even gets in rocket range.

Don't be a deadweight. Get your MWD today at Brokk's one stop shop xD
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2016-08-13 00:15:15 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Don't be a deadweight. Get your MWD today at Brokk's one stop shop xD

QUARK!!!
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#17 - 2016-08-13 03:04:41 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
With regards to the choice between a MWD or AB...

I would prefer to go with both! Both have their uses and "dual-proping" an Assault Frigate makes them fairly powerful.
However, it will consume a lot of your ship's PG-CPU... so be careful. If you want to stick with one prop mod for general use, go with the MWD.


+1 Dual Prop frigates can make truly excellent tackle boats. Personally, I like the Dramiel and the Firetail in this role. I have limited experience of Assault Frigates outside of HarpyFleet. A good sized harpyfleet is still a very dangerous skirmish fleet that can blow battleships away.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
#18 - 2016-08-13 05:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikea Tiber
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
With regards to the choice between a MWD or AB...

I would prefer to go with both! Both have their uses and "dual-proping" an Assault Frigate makes them fairly powerful.
However, it will consume a lot of your ship's PG-CPU... so be careful. If you want to stick with one prop mod for general use, go with the MWD.


+1 Dual Prop frigates can make truly excellent tackle boats. Personally, I like the Dramiel and the Firetail in this role. I have limited experience of Assault Frigates outside of HarpyFleet. A good sized harpyfleet is still a very dangerous skirmish fleet that can blow battleships away.



The dramiel and firetail actually fly like frigates do, though, and fast frigates at that. AFs dont right now, with few outliers. The ishkur praised earlier in this thread is a pig. I used to enjoy piloting it, but it is slow and handles like a brick.
Speed and agility is the main survival mechanism a frigate has, neglecting either means that it only has a local tank as stong as frigate sized tanking modules.
AFs arent in that great of a place right now; a few of them are great due to reasonable mobility compared to other AFs, or better damage projection compared to other AFs. The proliferation of pirate frigates hurts AFs as a whole as well, since they actually handle like frigates. Dual propulsion is great if you have the fitting, base speed or agility to use it effectively.

AFs are tough, and frigate gangs are really fun, but you might enjoy a combat interceptor more. I feel like a nano cruiser roams as quickly as an AF.

my other nano is a polycarb

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-08-13 06:50:46 UTC
Nikea Tiber wrote:

AFs are tough, and frigate gangs are really fun, but you might enjoy a combat interceptor more. I feel like a nano cruiser roams as quickly as an AF.

You feel correctly. The MWD bonus and T2 resists mitigate some of the incoming damage, but the amount of hitpoints to chew through is also less than that of a T1 cruiser. Pricetag's the same too.

Assault frigs may not be top notch at the moment but I still enjoy flying them. Since I also happen to wield all weapon systems and fly all frigates at tech II, I can cherrypick which ones I like and which ones I don't-- there is after all a great diversity under the encompassing umbrella "Assault Frigates".

In regards to OP's question, whether he winds up flying a ceptor, an assault frig or a pirate frig- training the basic frigate and the small weapon systems is never a waste of training; so I'd still definitely go for it.