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Delightful Things

Author
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#1 - 2016-08-08 23:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
I've been out of the game for a few years, and these are some of the ship/module changes that have delighted me:
- New ships! New modules! Better ships! Better modules! Bastion! Navy BCs!
- Module tiericide made basically all of the named modules do *something* well
- T3 destroyers are pretty sweet. The modal aspect of them is a really nice touch.
- New Tier 2 and Tech 2 destroyers. Jump dessies are particularly amusing.
- Copying ship fittings in and out of Eve via the clipboard!
- Fit and multifit!!!!!! WOOOOO!!!!
- Ship skins, aka, microtransactions done right.
- The Prorator gets a utility high for a probe launcher!
- Low slots on freighters lets people choose between suicide gank protection, hauling more ****, and faster trips, squee!
- Asklepian implants!
- ECCM scripts for SeBos!

Some things I don't like:
- WTF is up with the price of trit and plex?!
- I lost many, many billions in in best named mods that went from 2-3m -> 10k isk
- My Nidhoggur became a Lif. That is seriously the ******* ugliest ship I've ever seen.
- I can't use my fighters for my Nidhoggur. I even have to go buy a new skill book? Seriously, what happened to "if you could fly it before you can still"?
- Right click menus are kinda laggy.
- Ships & Modules is dead.

Things I'd love to see still:
- Fit ships out of the corp hangar (because I'm a socialist!)

Anything else I really missed?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Viktor Amarr
#2 - 2016-08-09 00:05:10 UTC
T3D pretty much killed the landscape for solo or small group pvp.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#3 - 2016-08-09 02:01:53 UTC
Uh, I totally disagree. Ref: https://zkillboard.com/character/835925604/

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Viktor Amarr
#4 - 2016-08-09 06:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Amarr
Liang Nuren wrote:
Uh, I totally disagree. Ref: https://zkillboard.com/character/835925604/

-Liang


Ok, for people who actually move around and leave their system once in a blue moon, the T3D (and Svipul in particular) have completely ruined the landscape :)

They overshadow AF making them even more useless. They're the most used pvp ship of all (and that is just the Svipul alone, not counting the others). They're hilariously silly even after several nerfs where Clown2 and Fuxxy promised us they knew what they were doing even when we told them beforehand it wouldn't help, to a point where CCP finally admitted they don't know what they're doing and have enlisted a group of "wise men" (known pvp players) for a round table to try and fix this mess.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2016-08-09 07:13:33 UTC
Gotta say, it's nice to see your name popping up again.

Also, what's the skillbook complaint? FAX machines use Carrier. Fighters though... yeah. That's true.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#6 - 2016-08-09 10:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
By design and with intention, CCP can't really govern the in-game cost of items. They can to some degree affect the relative cost of items compared to each other by influencing mineral and item costs where manufacturing is concerned as well as altering how one can get them and where (see drone "poop", changes to ship mineral costs, the Vehement blueprint changes going in this morning, etc.), but ultimately it's up to the players what something will costs ISK wise...including PLEX. If something goes up or down, at the very most CCP can be accused of/credited with making minor at best influences to how players speculate something's worth on the market, but even said speculative behavior is -- however predictable -- entirely player-based.

Also, PyFa and EFT are still a thing, just so you know. Socialize away, dear friend...socialize away!

Btw, pretty nice list. I can honestly agree with most if not all of it.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

W0lf Crendraven
TeamTama
#7 - 2016-08-09 13:18:23 UTC
The best thing ever is that V is now the shortkey for dscaning.
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#8 - 2016-08-09 14:27:15 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I've been out of the game for a few years, and these are some of the ship/module changes that have delighted me:
- New ships! New modules! Better ships! Better modules! Bastion! Navy BCs!
- Module tiericide made basically all of the named modules do *something* well
- T3 destroyers are pretty sweet. The modal aspect of them is a really nice touch.
- New Tier 2 and Tech 2 destroyers. Jump dessies are particularly amusing.
- Copying ship fittings in and out of Eve via the clipboard!
- Fit and multifit!!!!!! WOOOOO!!!!
- Ship skins, aka, microtransactions done right.
- The Prorator gets a utility high for a probe launcher!
- Low slots on freighters lets people choose between suicide gank protection, hauling more ****, and faster trips, squee!
- Asklepian implants!
- ECCM scripts for SeBos!

Some things I don't like:
- WTF is up with the price of trit and plex?!
- I lost many, many billions in in best named mods that went from 2-3m -> 10k isk
- My Nidhoggur became a Lif. That is seriously the ******* ugliest ship I've ever seen.
- I can't use my fighters for my Nidhoggur. I even have to go buy a new skill book? Seriously, what happened to "if you could fly it before you can still"?
- Right click menus are kinda laggy.
- Ships & Modules is dead.

Things I'd love to see still:
- Fit ships out of the corp hangar (because I'm a socialist!)

Anything else I really missed?

-Liang


- multibuy is useful.
- this goes with both MTs and plexes: Skill injectors, multi character training, skill extractors, etc have reduced the number of plexes people use to convert RL money to isk since pretty much everything in the new eden store can be sold on market for isk. Also plexes cost a bit more now than they did in RL money.
- The price of many t1 ships have went up... a drake is like 60-65 mil i think. I use to buy them for 30 mil years ago. They nerfed loot reprocessing and enhanced mining. Now you have to do a bunch of ridiculous training most ratters arent going to bother with to reprocess loot and get the same amount. Most ratters dont bother picking up loot anymore. It also cost isk to reprocess loot into minerals and that eats into the profits. All of that caused the price of most minerals to nearly double.
-tieracide was suppose to give each of the named mods a purpose. it works for that purpose. But it also killed the price of many of the mods across the board.
- A lif is is basically all the triage stuff that use to be on a carrier. A carrier is now purely for fighting and a FAX( the lif) is purely logistics. there were a lot of capital changes a couple months ago? that you may want to update yourself on. If you want your lif to be a carrier, id file a ticket and explain you just returned after a long time away and that you would like your FAX to be a carrier again.
- Freighters got a nerf( so im told). They removed some of the base cargohold and gave them limited low slots. Most people still fit all cargoholds so they carry the same amount they did before.
- Forums in general are dead as many people post on reddit now.

You may be missing the following:
- Citadels: these are suppose to be a replacement for POS and stations? when CCP is done with them. They are quite useful as is even though many people will complain they arent deathstars that can take out a whole fleet solo without the owner even logging in. A lot of structure reworking is in the works.
-jump fatigue on everything that can jump makes force projection of capitals and the use of JBS limited.
-The map is more fractured now. this is mainly because sov players were punished with the ridiculous sov mechanic of jedi mind links( entosis is what it is called). this replaced Sov blockade units, which replaced POS bashing for sov. Now 5 guys can literally tie up an entire alliance of thousands of people having to defend their systems from ninja entosis frigates. Forcing that alliance to deal with ninja entosisers rather than actually get out and battle real alliances. Its absolutely stupid and the worst sov mechanic put into the game.
- NPCs will drop capitals on you now in null belts and anoms. Thats always exciting especially since they are far superior at locking, ewar/tackling, DPSing, and tanking you than any other ship in eve. Its basically like fighting a 5 or 10 man gang rolled up in a single ship.
- Dont know if you had ghost sites and shattered wormholes when you last played.
- Drifters and cicadean seekers are basically NPCs on steroids.
- new camera gives you more options but it has been buggy since release. I think they fixed most of the bugs. Some of the new graphics( such as docking and undocking) are a right pain in the arse.
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#9 - 2016-08-09 14:45:45 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Uh, I totally disagree. Ref: https://zkillboard.com/character/835925604/

-Liang


Ok, for people who actually move around and leave their system once in a blue moon, the T3D (and Svipul in particular) have completely ruined the landscape :)

They overshadow AF making them even more useless. They're the most used pvp ship of all (and that is just the Svipul alone, not counting the others). They're hilariously silly even after several nerfs where Clown2 and Fuxxy promised us they knew what they were doing even when we told them beforehand it wouldn't help, to a point where CCP finally admitted they don't know what they're doing and have enlisted a group of "wise men" (known pvp players) for a round table to try and fix this mess.


Svipul is the most used ship for pvp because it a common doctrine ship for fast fleets used by null alliances. They arent the super ship people think they are though. People just know how to fit and fly them. Also its a t3 AND a destroyer, of course its going to be better than a AF. It would be ridiculous not to be. However, a fitted svipul cost about twice as much as a fitted AF and you get about 50% better performance out of one than an AF. I would say that is balanced. Further 3 t3 cruisers made the top 10 list of killers and with the fessor that means 50% of the top 10 killers are t3 ships. I would say that balanced.

Destroyers were neglected for years with dictors being the only non LOL destroyer and basically paper bags. Let destroyers shine for a while, they deserve it.
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
#10 - 2016-08-09 14:55:09 UTC
Also signing your posts is now a bannable offense
Viktor Amarr
#11 - 2016-08-09 17:23:02 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Svipul is the most used ship for pvp because it a common doctrine ship for fast fleets used by null alliances. They arent the super ship people think they are though. People just know how to fit and fly them. Also its a t3 AND a destroyer, of course its going to be better than a AF. It would be ridiculous not to be. However, a fitted svipul cost about twice as much as a fitted AF and you get about 50% better performance out of one than an AF. I would say that is balanced. Further 3 t3 cruisers made the top 10 list of killers and with the fessor that means 50% of the top 10 killers are t3 ships. I would say that balanced.

Destroyers were neglected for years with dictors being the only non LOL destroyer and basically paper bags. Let destroyers shine for a while, they deserve it.



Yes Svipuls are used a lot because for some magic reason people know how to fit them but not how to fit other ships, that' why that is. If a ship is used a whole lot, more than others, and forces CCP to create a focus group to try and balance them then there's probably an issue with them don't you think?

what are the chances that you fly a lot of T3D?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#12 - 2016-08-09 17:31:03 UTC
Tung Yoggi wrote:
Also signing your posts is now a bannable offense


It always was. ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#13 - 2016-08-09 18:09:13 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Uh, I totally disagree. Ref: https://zkillboard.com/character/835925604/

-Liang


Ok, for people who actually move around and leave their system once in a blue moon, the T3D (and Svipul in particular) have completely ruined the landscape :)

They overshadow AF making them even more useless. They're the most used pvp ship of all (and that is just the Svipul alone, not counting the others). They're hilariously silly even after several nerfs where Clown2 and Fuxxy promised us they knew what they were doing even when we told them beforehand it wouldn't help, to a point where CCP finally admitted they don't know what they're doing and have enlisted a group of "wise men" (known pvp players) for a round table to try and fix this mess.



Haha, I've been out and about outside of "my system", and I've even lost an Atron (and pod!) to a Svipul. I did put him in half structure before going down though, so I guess they are killable after all. I can definitely see what you mean about them overshadowing AFs on the open field. They have more slots, more fittings, more DPS, and defense mode can make them tank like a beast. AFs aren't totally out of luck though: they still have a smaller sig radius, T2 resists, and are generally a bit faster than propulsion mode. They can also fit into small plexes (which doesn't help null sec people at all, but is quite useful for me).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#14 - 2016-08-09 18:13:11 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The best thing ever is that V is now the shortkey for dscaning.


Yeah, V for auto-moving your view to the celestial you clicked on? Yeah, that **** is ******* magic. That definitely deserved a spot on my delighted list. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

W0lf Crendraven
TeamTama
#15 - 2016-08-09 19:24:30 UTC
Thats C afaik, V is basicely pressing the scan button on your dscanner. At least with defaul keybinds,
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#16 - 2016-08-10 00:09:14 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Svipul is the most used ship for pvp because it a common doctrine ship for fast fleets used by null alliances. They arent the super ship people think they are though. People just know how to fit and fly them. Also its a t3 AND a destroyer, of course its going to be better than a AF. It would be ridiculous not to be. However, a fitted svipul cost about twice as much as a fitted AF and you get about 50% better performance out of one than an AF. I would say that is balanced. Further 3 t3 cruisers made the top 10 list of killers and with the fessor that means 50% of the top 10 killers are t3 ships. I would say that balanced.

Destroyers were neglected for years with dictors being the only non LOL destroyer and basically paper bags. Let destroyers shine for a while, they deserve it.



Yes Svipuls are used a lot because for some magic reason people know how to fit them but not how to fit other ships, that' why that is. If a ship is used a whole lot, more than others, and forces CCP to create a focus group to try and balance them then there's probably an issue with them don't you think?

what are the chances that you fly a lot of T3D?
People that fly svipuls know how to fit them and other ships to counter. People try to bring a butterknife to a gun fight and then scream nerf. I have several ships in one station that will easily kill my svipuls without breaking a sweat. Without logi support svipuls will die to pretty much anything bigger than it rather quickly. It has the dps and tank pretty much equivalent to a t1 cruiser.

And i do fly svipuls along with most other t3ds and t3cs. but 90% of the time i undock for pvp im not in a T3D. That is because they are situational, not the super ship people claim them to be. I fly a variety of t2 , t3, and pirate faction in pvp for the variety of situations which occur when pvping.
W0lf Crendraven
TeamTama
#17 - 2016-08-10 04:34:38 UTC
T1 cruiser tank with a frig size and a 10mn ab is way way more tank in reality.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#18 - 2016-08-10 05:34:13 UTC
Welcome back! I learned great deal from your posts here years ago when I was a younger pilot. :D

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#19 - 2016-08-10 05:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
T1 cruiser tank with a frig size and a 10mn ab is way way more tank in reality.
*sigh*

- one third of kills by svipuls in the the last week have been by 10 alliances. 2 of those alliances hang out in tama and i could kill stuff in tama in an ibis. Most of the other alliances on that list are currently actively engaged in sov warfare in which they are using svipuls as a doctrine. When one uses svipuls as a doctrine they have logi which greatly enhances their ability to survive a fight. However almost any doctrine of tankier higher dps ships( read any t2 or t3 cruiser doctrine) can easily alpha the fleet into oblivion.

- Svipuls are used in sov warfare because they are fast with a decent tank, good range, and decent dps in large numbers. Making them ideal for guarding entosis ships and getting quickly between nodes and objectives. I know this because i actually do sov warfare and use svipuls in this manner.

- A fitted svipul has about 60 to 75 sig rad depending on fit. If its running its MWD it has a sig bigger than a t2 or t3 cruiser. Most Svipul fits are MWD. The sig rad is about half of a fitted cruiser and about twice as much as a fitted AF, putting it where it should be.

- Because its a fast ship AND has long range hitting up to 100KM with fast locking it has the ability to KM whore more than most ships. That doesnt mean its a super ship. That just means people know how to use it to KM whore.

- It has 10:1 K/L ratio. This is on par with the confessor, sabre, stiletto, and malediction. The tengu has about a 9:1 K/L ratio which is likely due to it being a pve favorite putting it in situations in which it is more ill equipped and less likely to be pvp fitted. The other t3 cruisers, all of which made the list, have around a 30:1 K/L ratio. While the cynabal and orthrus both have around 20:1 K/L ratios.

So by K:L ratios alone the t3 cruisers and pirate faction ships are far better at killing than the svipul. No one is screaming to nerf these ships. Like i said, people fail to understand game mechanics and properly fit and fly ships and then scream nerf.

Edit To Add: A ship should be nerfed based on its popularity but because its a lot better than other ships in its class. The svipul is pretty close to on par with other ships in its class. Its popular because its fun as hell to fly. Very few ships in Eve are as much fun to fly as the svipul, IMO.
Viktor Amarr
#20 - 2016-08-10 06:43:07 UTC
Well if they're not that awesome as you put it, why do you put so much time into writing walls of text trying to not get them changed? I mean, they're not that great so why fly them right?

Or could it be that they ARE really great and you just don't want to have your OP toy taken away from you so you'll use some hilarious :logic: and :reason: to try and convince people that they really aren't that amazing.

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