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Crime & Punishment

 
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Strange, yet satisfying revenge story.

Author
om rootingking
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1 - 2016-07-10 23:07:57 UTC
Oh hay, names and locations won't be mentioned to preserve the egos of the fragile. Easily sourced from kb anyway.

Last December or so i picked a 0.4 next to hisec and decided to make it my querencia since i had assets there from years before. Got 100 kills on newbro Ventures with Reapers fitted double scram. A few PVE bads and the odd local before things quieted down. After killing about 160 newbros, sending each 2m isk labelled KF is recruiting i was unimpressed by how none joined so stopped doing that.

Actually made more friends who had questions about how i landed on them so fast/precisely. Patrolling in a double-scram Prospect became the thing but mainly the aim was to scare off ambushers so i could quickly burn down PVE sites. Got 2 Stratios BPC, 2 Vigi BPC and a mountain of decryptors for the invention.

SO lost a cruiser to one of those insta-kill carriers, managed to bump a 2 week old thanny off undock and see him babble in local instead of corp comms by mistake, hail the carrier changes and skill injectors.

Then one day saw a 10-day-old tengu killing a clone soldier rat in a belt. Totally slipping, calmly fighting a cruiser rat. I thought: totally bait. This is someone who spent many spaec money on SP and ship to eat a 1m bounty rat? Maybe just testing it.

Few days later, newbro thorax derping around, making local look untidy, so i put neuts scram n web on muh snipan ishtar to go chase him off or wreck him.

OH HO Tengu and Legion appear and unleash a tiny dribble of dps onto me with faction drones. My ecm drones could shrug off one point at a time and the neuts capped out the thorax but they managed to keep me there for the 6 minutes it took their poorly skilled iWin ships to burn me down.

When i saw the faction drones i mentioned that they would never be good, to which was replied: not like you.

It clicked: here's some poor schmuck i squashed who has been buttherterated enough to go to the Mr Miyagi of P2W skill injectors to get me back. Multibox 2 strat cruisers and a bait thorax. Wow. Both T3 pilots under 2 weeks old. Both fly with T2 rigged T3 cruisers fitted with nothing but faction and deadspace.

I guess i applaud this as an option, since it means there's some extremely shiny lossmails out there to be had. On the other hand it's also the dawn of a more direct P2W eve than previously.


Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-07-11 00:30:39 UTC
A wise man once said sense is a one way street and at its end there's a pile of cap boosters. Maybe those are also effective against the moths that seem to devour your sentences.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

om rootingking
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#3 - 2016-07-11 07:41:11 UTC
It's called being articulate and concise as opposed to prolix.
Thanks for your post, though, i guess.
Tengu Grib
Cruisers Crew
Shoot First.
#4 - 2016-07-11 16:09:05 UTC
That was neither concise nor articulate. It was however rather entertaining. Would read again.

It's amusing that he went to that much effort and expense for some petty revenge. That's what Eve's all about though.

As far as P2W, I still don't feel that way. I feel like injectors are just providing guys ways of getting themselves into more trouble than they can handle faster than ever before. Sure in this case it worked out in his favor ( I think, you weren't clear on whether you died to his multiboxing or not) but generally it does not.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Mortlake
Brutor Tribe
#5 - 2016-07-11 16:43:38 UTC
Everything's ruined and I hate you.

+1.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#6 - 2016-07-11 18:39:29 UTC
om rootingking wrote:
On the other hand it's also the dawn of a more direct P2W eve than previously.

2011: CCP releases virtual clothing, and hints at the possibility of specially coloured/effect-laced ammunition...EVE citizens literally riot...

5 years later...

2016: SP is bought/sold for RL $$$. A 3 day old character becomes the first to max every skill in EVE just to prove he can. People cheer/applaud, or at worst sit apathetic and say "meh".



And people wonder why we turn into angry bitter-vets...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Tengu Grib
Cruisers Crew
Shoot First.
#7 - 2016-07-11 20:53:07 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
om rootingking wrote:
On the other hand it's also the dawn of a more direct P2W eve than previously.

2011: CCP releases virtual clothing, and hints at the possibility of specially coloured/effect-laced ammunition...EVE citizens literally riot...

5 years later...

2016: SP is bought/sold for RL $$$. A 3 day old character becomes the first to max every skill in EVE just to prove he can. People cheer/applaud, or at worst sit apathetic and say "meh".



And people wonder why we turn into angry bitter-vets...


If you have that kind of money, you're not paying to win Eve, you've already won it. And if you do that with a CC you're just an idiot the rest of us can extort, rob and scam. Or in other words, a Crime and Punishment comedy thread waiting to happen.

It's really no different than the character bazaar with a couple of exceptions (character age means nothing for instance). I just watch all the extractors and injectors getting blown up on Zkill and laugh.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#8 - 2016-07-11 20:59:15 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
om rootingking wrote:
On the other hand it's also the dawn of a more direct P2W eve than previously.

2011: CCP releases virtual clothing, and hints at the possibility of specially coloured/effect-laced ammunition...EVE citizens literally riot...

5 years later...

2016: SP is bought/sold for RL $$$. A 3 day old character becomes the first to max every skill in EVE just to prove he can. People cheer/applaud, or at worst sit apathetic and say "meh".



And people wonder why we turn into angry bitter-vets...


If you have that kind of money, you're not paying to win Eve, you've already won it. And if you do that with a CC you're just an idiot the rest of us can extort, rob and scam. Or in other words, a Crime and Punishment comedy thread waiting to happen.

It's really no different than the character bazaar with a couple of exceptions (character age means nothing for instance). I just watch all the extractors and injectors getting blown up on Zkill and laugh.

Are you saying that the monocle was more game-impacting in 2011, so the riots were OK? Or has something fundamental about the structure of the universe changed since then?

Just interesting how fast everybody did a complete 180 on micro-transactions in general - and on game-altering ones specifically. Obviously you can't "win" eve - so it will never be truly "pay-to-win" - but it is certainly becoming more of a "pay for ridiculous advantages" system - and it is being pushed harder than ever before.

Additionally, that is true of most games that are considered pay-to-win. None of them actually let you just *pay* and *win* - They are all scams designed to keep idiots funneling more and more real-world money into them for perceived advantages that ultimately aren't enough, so the cycle continues. I find it disheartening that EVE has chosen to go down this development path - and even more disheartening that nobody has a problem with it.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#9 - 2016-07-12 01:28:49 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
2016: SP is bought/sold for RL $$$.


Bought for, not sold for.

You've been able to buy SP a lot longer than that - either by PLEXing into a set of +5s or in the character bazaar. 2016 brought a difference of degree not kind.
om rootingking
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#10 - 2016-07-12 02:27:17 UTC
T3 pilots with every mod faction/deadspace, 100m worth of implants stuffed into their pods, under 10 days old?
Way more linear than character bazaar: start playing, buy awesome, win fights.
They might throw a few bucks at CCP but i can't see that person being here for years.
Also character age always meant nothing with alts (that week old cruiser with a cyno in the belt) but now it's no indication at all of SP level as well.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#11 - 2016-07-12 10:50:00 UTC
So once again then, why were there riots in 2011?

Was all of EVE insane back then and we've weeded out all the insane people and become saner now?

Again - it is the *change* that is startling, not the fact that CCP is copying other games to rake in $$$



Also, if sp is *bought* for RL $$$ it means somebody is *selling*. It may not be direct, but it is still bought *and* sold. CCP just gets the $$$.

Also look at some of the shuttle losses lately and tell me again people arent RMTing it. Go ahead...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Nitshe Razvedka
#12 - 2016-07-12 11:42:19 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
A wise man once said sense is a one way street and at its end there's a pile of cap boosters. Maybe those are also effective against the moths that seem to devour your sentences.


Anthony Burgess was criticised for his colourful and dystopian language in a Clockwork Orange. Eve should be a futurists linguistics prologue. Sometimes less is more, sometimes more is waffle.



Nice story.................






but you're still a **** for joining goonies.Smile

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.

om rootingking
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#13 - 2016-07-13 01:51:48 UTC
Burgess required things of the reader, always a big no-no but rewarding for whoever bothers. He also used a lyrical poetic method with words so that the sound resembled that being described, a pair of horses charging as an octopodius cacophony really brings that home, but lets RL livestock think he's just using hurrr big werds.
After 365 days of straight PVP i thought i'd join KF to fatten up in Dek and take it easy for a while. Then the biggest change to sov mechanics i've ever seen and the biggest RMT backed enemy force ever combined to start a scuffle.
FML as the kids say.
Every single day i've been in KF someone has blurted grrgons h8gons to announce their irrelevance.
Thanks for being today's.

These SP injectors tho.



Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#14 - 2016-07-17 22:51:27 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Also, if sp is *bought* for RL $$$ it means somebody is *selling*.


Indeed, but it doesn't mean someone (other than CCP) is selling it for RL money. Indeed, I listed some cases where I can buy SP for RL money without anyone but CCP getting richer, and skill injectors are another case.

You seem long on polemic but short on actual sense.
Izi Ningishzidda
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-07-18 05:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Izi Ningishzidda
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
om rootingking wrote:
On the other hand it's also the dawn of a more direct P2W eve than previously.

2011: CCP releases virtual clothing, and hints at the possibility of specially coloured/effect-laced ammunition...EVE citizens literally riot...

5 years later...

2016: SP is bought/sold for RL $$$. A 3 day old character becomes the first to max every skill in EVE just to prove he can. People cheer/applaud, or at worst sit apathetic and say "meh".



And people wonder why we turn into angry bitter-vets...


If you have that kind of money, you're not paying to win Eve, you've already won it. And if you do that with a CC you're just an idiot the rest of us can extort, rob and scam. Or in other words, a Crime and Punishment comedy thread waiting to happen.

It's really no different than the character bazaar with a couple of exceptions (character age means nothing for instance). I just watch all the extractors and injectors getting blown up on Zkill and laugh.

Are you saying that the monocle was more game-impacting in 2011, so the riots were OK? Or has something fundamental about the structure of the universe changed since then?

Just interesting how fast everybody did a complete 180 on micro-transactions in general - and on game-altering ones specifically. Obviously you can't "win" eve - so it will never be truly "pay-to-win" - but it is certainly becoming more of a "pay for ridiculous advantages" system - and it is being pushed harder than ever before.

Additionally, that is true of most games that are considered pay-to-win. None of them actually let you just *pay* and *win* - They are all scams designed to keep idiots funneling more and more real-world money into them for perceived advantages that ultimately aren't enough, so the cycle continues. I find it disheartening that EVE has chosen to go down this development path - and even more disheartening that nobody has a problem with it.


Look. I have all kinds of problems with this company, but I'm not going to waste much time thinking about it or trying to change them. I think most of us realize they are a lost cause. When people are not complaining it's because they just don't care to waste their words anymore.

Secondly micro transactions on vanity items are something I love, so they lost two customers and gained one perhaps. The problem with CCP is they try to reinvent the wheel and do so in ways that disrupt the fun of others. When you make a change it needs to be good for the majority not a minority. Adding to the game in a way that makes someone happy but doesn't effect regulars is the best policy.

Aesop said when you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. This is true but Cosmetic micro transactions hurt no one in the long run. They are optional. THings like fozzie sov ruin the play style of hundreds iff not thousands of players, it was a bad move. Same with skill injectors - it offers an unavoidable advantage, and adults with good paying jobs who have no sense of fair play are going to have to go for it. It ruins games, pay to play signals the death of a game in my opinion.
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#16 - 2016-07-18 18:13:16 UTC
Izi Ningishzidda wrote:
Same with skill injectors - it offers an unavoidable advantage, and adults with good paying jobs who have no sense of fair play are going to have to go for it.


Just as they could buy highly-skilled characters beforehand, and still can buy them now. So where's the beef?
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#17 - 2016-07-19 08:48:37 UTC
If I remember correctly, the jita rioters' motivation was not unrest at EvE potentially becoming a p2w scheme game, but an outcry over CCP's decision to use their resources to make a money shop instead of some tangible benefit to the game.

I want to say that the riot also demonstrated that CCP had intentionally let their hardware/software fall into a state of disrepair due to the server's poor performance during said event. I believe we got time dialation as an indirect result of that riot.
I believe the riot was also, partially, a protest of the lag infestation of the part of EvE that CCP praises most highly: the 1000 player battles.

I am more concerned about the ever growing stream of little changes (ore holds, no watchlists, drones don't auto-aggro by default, native hull resists, hard cap to align time, etc.) than I could ever be about buying and selling sp.

I will consider blowing the dust off my pitchfork when CCP adds social corps.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#18 - 2016-07-19 12:12:59 UTC
Areen Sassel wrote:
Izi Ningishzidda wrote:
Same with skill injectors - it offers an unavoidable advantage, and adults with good paying jobs who have no sense of fair play are going to have to go for it.


Just as they could buy highly-skilled characters beforehand, and still can buy them now. So where's the beef?

high-skill characters were pretty rare on the character exchange - and even then the absolute max was ~200m sp that was *not* focused into only the specific skills you wanted.

The character also had its own history and could be tracked through the forum posts/etc. Everybody knew it had lots of sp, as well as that someone had purchased it.

If you can't see how that is different than skill injectors....I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you.



I am well aware I'm in the minority on this issue, and I'm not even saying you guys should change your minds. I'm just a dinosaur from the old EVE. Happy SP injecting P

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#19 - 2016-07-19 19:16:27 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
high-skill characters were pretty rare on the character exchange


So they went to the highest bidder, who could become the highest bidder by buying PLEX with real-life money. More real-life money, more skillpoints.

Quote:
- and even then the absolute max was ~200m sp that was *not* focused into only the specific skills you wanted.


As said; it's a difference of degree, not of kind - although of course the characters for sale were focussed on specific skillsets, because that's what people do.

Quote:
Everybody knew it had lots of sp, as well as that someone had purchased it.


If I see a 3-day old pilot in a T3 now I know it has lots of SP. Whether someone buys their skillpoints in bulk or a la carte, if they're flying an expensive ship, they probably-but-not-definitely have a lot of SP invested in it. No change there.

Everybody did not, of course, know that someone had purchased it, unless you're in the habit of writing down every name in the character bazaar just in case it turns up in Local at some point. From that point of view, the purchasers of skillpoints are better telegraphed in the new world - you can't hide a recent start date.

Quote:
If you can't see how that is different than skill injectors....I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you.


Bluster is rarely convincing.

Quote:
I am well aware I'm in the minority on this issue, and I'm not even saying you guys should change your minds. I'm just a dinosaur from the old EVE. Happy SP injecting P


You're in the minority not because the game has changed or the playerbase has, but because most players, old and new, recognise you could buy skill points with cash money in the "old EVE", too.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#20 - 2016-07-19 19:30:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Areen Sassel wrote:
As said; it's a difference of degree, not of kind - although of course the characters for sale were focussed on specific skillsets, because that's what people do.

It is a *massive* difference of degree. Before the $$$ cost was insane and the results were mediocre at best for most players. Now anybody can do it - and based on the number of sp bought/sold most people *are* starting to do so.

But hey, at least I finally got you to admit there *is* a difference of some sort. More than I really expected since your mind is clearly made up and as I said I'm not even here to convince you. P

Areen Sassel wrote:
If I see a 3-day old pilot in a T3 now I know it has lots of SP. Whether someone buys their skillpoints in bulk or a la carte, if they're flying an expensive ship, they probably-but-not-definitely have a lot of SP invested in it. No change there.

It makes a difference even if they aren't in an expensive ship - but sure it isn't a huge change in real combat situations.

Areen Sassel wrote:
Everybody did not, of course, know that someone had purchased it, unless you're in the habit of writing down every name in the character bazaar just in case it turns up in Local at some point.

Clearly you have never heard of the "search" feature...


@ Sitting Bull Lakota - the assorted rants/eve news articles/etc regarding the old riots are still around if you care enough to search. I assure you it was centered on EVE's transformation into a p2w scheme game, not CCP continuing to ignore game mechanics as they had consistently done since the game was created.


My personal theory as to why there are no riots currently is simple: Those players quit. The active EVE player base is less than 50% of what it was then. And a lot of the remaining population are new characters. None of you arguing with me was even playing anywhere *near* 2011. You never played the game as it was then, and you never will.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

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