These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

[NEW MODULE + MECHANICS] Boarding bay

Author
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#1 - 2016-06-02 06:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
This post gave me idea to expand here this new gameplay mechanics.

Again, expanding ideas for piracy and defence of vessels. Making gameplay more varried thru those means. Especially new game mechanics and new modules.

Following the introduction of Autodestructive cargobays, pirate overlords became enraged and searched for other means of stealing cargo from other vessels.

This thread is about new modules that would effectively introduce:
first crews,
first modules for boarding parties,
First crew related skills, for expanding health and fighting force of your crews.
new specialised angel cartel ship with bonuses to speed, turret damage and fighting force strength of the crew. Cruiser sized.
and new gameplay in the form of strategic minigame similar to hacking, only one such module can be active at a time against one other ship, only one can be equipped.
After failing or completing the assault on the vessel, Lockdown would happen as a timer for a victim and there would be no means of such suprprise assault against him for 5 minutes. So you better do it fast, with the apropriate ship and loot only what is most valuable, because you have one chance.
.

MODULES:
Could be activated in Low sec and null sec only.
3 sizes: small, medium, big, fitted to relative size spaceship hulls in the game.
Names: Small boarding bay, Medium boarding bay, Big boarding bay.
Range: 3 km max.
Module slot: Low
Powergrid requirment: varies. CPU requirment: varies (more CPU heavy than powergrid heavy).


CREWS:
Parties with different fighting strenghts and vitality (bought only from NPC pirate and empire factions in LP store):
For defence (empire factions): Piloted mecha, Marines (also Caldari, Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr light marines), CONCORD MTAC, autoturrets.
For boarding (pirate factions): Piloted mecha, Marines, ABC squads, heavy weapons squads, transporter units.

How does it work:
Every module would have capacity and would be preloaded with crews named "boarding parties". Similar mechanic to the capacitor boosters.
After sucesful scan of the cargohold of the vessel, attacking pilot would have to choose the item which he would like to steal. After marking it in the window of the scan results for stealing, you would use the boarding bay preloaded with crew you would like to use.
Their use on other vessel in low sec would give perpetrator a suspect flag.
Their use on other vessel would bring up a strategic minigame window with outline of spaceship where you would have your charges in the form of boarding parties that you would use to capture points and use your available crew charges against the targets like automatic turrets, security guards, piloted mecha, marines - security crew charges from victims Security bay default for every ship. Fight and move around the ship until you find a cargohold entry point and defeat the guarding party defending it. The item (max 100 m3) would then be transported to your vessel with a timer of 4 seconds, that could be reduced to 1 second with using transporter units against the final node.

The only means of defending yourself against such boarding would be to:
1. Run away, if your ship is faster than perpetrators.
2. Every ship in game would have option of placing security crew parties in the Security bays with different sizes for different ships (freighters would have really huge bays for that), these would act as a charges that would appear in the minigame window as defenders, system would locate them randomly, like they are in hacking window. Security bay would not be a module. Every ship would have a Security bay of varying size as default in fitting window.
3. Defeat perpetrator by attacking and destroying it, or wait until he fails and runs out of charges or others will attack him.
4. Align, eject some trash in can and pray that perpetrator will come after it, disengaging your vessel.
EDIT: 5. Use your own Boarding bay to destroy perpertators Boarding bay module before he completes the minigame. After he first engaged you in this manner and you will see a message of him boarding your ship, it would lock you both in limited engagement. When you will do it first, it would give you a suspect flag. Perpetrators own defence bay crew would try to stop you.

EDIT: This modules could have one more option usefull for battle, like after succesful scan of the ship modules of the vessel, attacking pilot would have to choose the module which he would like to disable (destroy like with burning by overheeting). After marking it in the window of the scan results for disabling, you would use the boarding bay, and use it in the same way as when stealing cargo.


What do you think? Seems a lot of work for the DEVS, but isnt it worth it to have your pirate ship pirating like it should be, without first destroying ship and praying it will drop the loot you want? Cool

One more thing. Using this ships and doing this kind of gameplay would be an oportunity target hunt, meanwhile doing exploration or some missioning. For example in low sec. Dont see it as replacement for ganking!

EDIT2: As for feasibility of boarding thru whole ship:
Stil this all crew would need to acces ship somehow dont you think? Hatches, gates for accessing the cargo space etc.
The thousands of crews dislocated around whole ship subsystems are no issue because they could be surprised and effectively omitted by this boarding parties that actually know abordage and ship structures.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2 - 2016-06-02 06:45:18 UTC
yeayyy, NO.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#3 - 2016-06-02 06:50:17 UTC
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4 - 2016-06-02 06:53:30 UTC
Umm, sure...

But instead of stealing loot, why not just take over the ship, shoot the pod, and have yourself a nice new freighter with all loot intact instead?


Also, as with your idea on the exploding cargo hold... Freighter defense parties should be incredibly weak (they are dock rats trained in shuffling boxes) and modules to improve them should take up massive amounts of cargo space. Other ships are ships of war, and already outfitted for the care and feeding of soldiers, they don't need tacked on facilities for this.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#5 - 2016-06-02 07:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Umm, sure...

But instead of stealing loot, why not just take over the ship, shoot the pod, and have yourself a nice new freighter with all loot intact instead?


Also, as with your idea on the exploding cargo hold... Freighter defense parties should be incredibly weak (they are dock rats trained in shuffling boxes) and modules to improve them should take up massive amounts of cargo space. Other ships are ships of war, and already outfitted for the care and feeding of soldiers, they don't need tacked on facilities for this.


Freighter would have more parties to defend as it would have bigger sized defence bay, but the pirate ship would have more strength for those parties.

Also defence bays are for balance of the strategic minigame. Think about it like a immune system in your body.

And taking over the ship is a no no because of capsuleer that sits inside it. The issue is that you would only be like a cold virus that is in the body, but after it takes some health (cargo) off of you, or is fighted away, it dont have to stay for more.
That is why you get only suspect flag from this.

Honorable pirates then would roam low sec with boarding ships and setting robbed ones free without the need for destruction. Every low sec gang would have those in case someone would transport a valuable cargo not worth destroying.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#6 - 2016-06-02 09:26:02 UTC
No, if you want my **** you are going to have to kill me for it.

If i wanted to get bullshited out ouf my assets id go join a wh corp with no api requirements.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#7 - 2016-06-02 09:49:59 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Umm, sure...

But instead of stealing loot, why not just take over the ship, shoot the pod, and have yourself a nice new freighter with all loot intact instead?


Also, as with your idea on the exploding cargo hold... Freighter defense parties should be incredibly weak (they are dock rats trained in shuffling boxes) and modules to improve them should take up massive amounts of cargo space. Other ships are ships of war, and already outfitted for the care and feeding of soldiers, they don't need tacked on facilities for this.


Freighter would have more parties to defend as it would have bigger sized defence bay, but the pirate ship would have more strength for those parties.

Also defence bays are for balance of the strategic minigame. Think about it like a immune system in your body.

And taking over the ship is a no no because of capsuleer that sits inside it. The issue is that you would only be like a cold virus that is in the body, but after it takes some health (cargo) off of you, or is fighted away, it dont have to stay for more.
That is why you get only suspect flag from this and no CONCORD intervention.

Honorable pirates then would roam low sec with boarding ships and setting robbed ones free without the need for destruction. Every low sec gang would have those in case someone would transport a valuable cargo not worth destroying.


What you want is to curtail freighter ganking. In general I am on your side, though not as much as some would think.

Freighters do not need any sort of military power. You can say you have 100 defenders so long as a battleships boarding party has a 20-1 kill ratio and at least 15 guys. You would be amazed at what proper training and equipment can do for a fighting force.

Bring friends to keep your cargo safe, or fly more cost effective boxes.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#8 - 2016-06-02 09:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
No, if you want my **** you are going to have to kill me for it.

If i wanted to get bullshited out ouf my assets id go join a wh corp with no api requirements.


Problem is you dont always have to be killed to be bullshitted out of the assets in real life, this is not how things work. This mechanic tries to make feel EVE more real and would still allow perpetrator to destroy the vessel if he fails to effectively complete the boarding. Of course in low sec, in high sec CONCORD would intervene and not being a ganker you would not destroy the vessel, but with Autodestructive cargobays, the situation could become not really rewarding. That mechanics would mean that the areas of space with lower traffic would become more unsafe like those side streets in the nightime. Like in real life.

In every wartime situation, or on the sea infested with pirates there is a boarding tactic and if EVE has to become REAL, it needs this.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#9 - 2016-06-02 09:55:14 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Umm, sure...

But instead of stealing loot, why not just take over the ship, shoot the pod, and have yourself a nice new freighter with all loot intact instead?


Also, as with your idea on the exploding cargo hold... Freighter defense parties should be incredibly weak (they are dock rats trained in shuffling boxes) and modules to improve them should take up massive amounts of cargo space. Other ships are ships of war, and already outfitted for the care and feeding of soldiers, they don't need tacked on facilities for this.


Freighter would have more parties to defend as it would have bigger sized defence bay, but the pirate ship would have more strength for those parties.

Also defence bays are for balance of the strategic minigame. Think about it like a immune system in your body.

And taking over the ship is a no no because of capsuleer that sits inside it. The issue is that you would only be like a cold virus that is in the body, but after it takes some health (cargo) off of you, or is fighted away, it dont have to stay for more.
That is why you get only suspect flag from this and no CONCORD intervention.

Honorable pirates then would roam low sec with boarding ships and setting robbed ones free without the need for destruction. Every low sec gang would have those in case someone would transport a valuable cargo not worth destroying.


What you want is to curtail freighter ganking. In general I am on your side, though not as much as some would think.

Freighters do not need any sort of military power. You can say you have 100 defenders so long as a battleships boarding party has a 20-1 kill ratio and at least 15 guys. You would be amazed at what proper training and equipment can do for a fighting force.

Bring friends to keep your cargo safe, or fly more cost effective boxes.

In confined areas of spaceship where one autoturret can eliminate not prepared force, numbers dont always count so much. For this matter I think there should be "paper, scissor, rock" type of units for boarding parties.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#10 - 2016-06-02 10:31:37 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
No, if you want my **** you are going to have to kill me for it.

If i wanted to get bullshited out ouf my assets id go join a wh corp with no api requirements.


Problem is you dont always have to be killed to be bullshitted out of the assets in real life, this is not how things work. This mechanic tries to make feel EVE more real and would still allow perpetrator to destroy the vessel if he fails to effectively complete the boarding. Of course in low sec, in high sec CONCORD would intervene and not being a ganker you would not destroy the vessel, but with Autodestructive cargobays, the situation could become not really rewarding. That mechanics would mean that the areas of space with lower traffic would become more unsafe like those side streets in the nightime. Like in real life.

In every wartime situation, or on the sea infested with pirates there is a boarding tactic and if EVE has to become REAL, it needs this.

Thats no justification for a bullshit mechanic that takes the player in question out of the equasion when they have done nothing wrong.
If you want to take my **** you are going to have to kill me to get it, if you cant do that then you dont get my ****.

Now consider , i can use this too, people like myself and those i fly with would be far far more effective at using this on you,
than you would be at using it on us, if you think you can lever mechanics like this over the predators in eve you would be mistaken.

I realy dont care for realism, i care for balanced and engaging gameplay and this is niether.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#11 - 2016-06-02 10:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Quote:
takes the player in question out of the equasion

But it does not remove it.
Its not bullshitmechanics if you would think more about it. Check the defences players would have for that. Check the requirements for the module and see its just 3000 m. Effectively piloting and having unpredictable setups for defence would matter. In high sec ane everywhere else there would be an option to battle on boards using the same module for counterboarding and disabling the opponent Boarding bay before he would complete his assault.

Effective use would still be hampered by the surroundings, like other players, like your defence setup. Like your speed and choice of ship to transport stuff. This all matters. I think its enough interesting option to implement and play the game in such an environment.
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2016-06-02 12:21:06 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
(suggests bullshit mechanic)

The end result of 30 people using this on your freighter would be identical to 30 people shooting at your freighter. You lose the freighter. The difference would be that instead of the loot fairy determining the pay out, the gankers get an intact freighter and all the loot.

I can guarantee you that if CCP were to implement this bullshit mechanic, no freighter in highsec would ever be safe. Not only that, but no mission runner, miner, or Orca would ever be safe.

Nana Skalski wrote:
The only means of defending yourself against such boarding would be to:
1. Run away, if your ship is faster than perpetrators.
2. Every ship in game would have security crew parties in the security bays with different sizes for different ships (freighters would have really huge bays for that), these would act as a charges that would appear in the minigame window as defenders, system would locate them randomly, like they are in hacking window.
3. Defeat perpetrator by attacking and destroying it, or wait until he fails and runs out of charges or others will attack him.
4. Align, eject some trash in can and pray that perpetrator will come after it, disengaging your vessel.

1. Yeah, because the ships targeted by gankers and pirates are known for being fast and maneuverable?
2. Just like current ganking, it'd take gankers and pirates about five minutes to figure the minimum number of pilots needed to take your ship with 100% success, and that's what they'd use.
3. Yeah, because the ships targeted by gankers and pirates are known for their offensive power?
4. Why would anyone disengage from stealing your ship over a dropped can? They could just as easily finish stealing your ship and go back to pick up the can you dropped.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#13 - 2016-06-02 12:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
(suggests bullshit mechanic)

The end result of 30 people using this on your freighter would be identical to 30 people shooting at your freighter. You lose the freighter. The difference would be that instead of the loot fairy determining the pay out, the gankers get an intact freighter and all the loot.

I can guarantee you that if CCP were to implement this bullshit mechanic, no freighter in highsec would ever be safe. Not only that, but no mission runner, miner, or Orca would ever be safe.

Nana Skalski wrote:
The only means of defending yourself against such boarding would be to:
1. Run away, if your ship is faster than perpetrators.
2. Every ship in game would have security crew parties in the security bays with different sizes for different ships (freighters would have really huge bays for that), these would act as a charges that would appear in the minigame window as defenders, system would locate them randomly, like they are in hacking window.
3. Defeat perpetrator by attacking and destroying it, or wait until he fails and runs out of charges or others will attack him.
4. Align, eject some trash in can and pray that perpetrator will come after it, disengaging your vessel.

1. Yeah, because the ships targeted by gankers and pirates are known for being fast and maneuverable?
2. Just like current ganking, it'd take gankers and pirates about five minutes to figure the minimum number of pilots needed to take your ship with 100% success, and that's what they'd use.
3. Yeah, because the ships targeted by gankers and pirates are known for their offensive power?
4. Why would anyone disengage from stealing your ship over a dropped can? They could just as easily finish stealing your ship and go back to pick up the can you dropped.


You forgot about this:
only one such module can be active at a time against one other ship, only one can be equipped.

When this 30 people would gang up for a freighter only one of them would be effectively doing something. After failing or completing the assault, Lockdown would happen as a timer for a victim and there would be no means of such surprise assault again in 5 minutes. Cool

Now please reread my initial post because it has been updated. Make sure you dont miss anything.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#14 - 2016-06-02 12:53:48 UTC
NO

Why?

This is not a new concept, boarding ships to steal loot or take over the ship come up on a routine basis.
They were bad in the past and the twists you have on the process do not change that, this is still a bad idea.
If you want what I have you have to kill me to get it, and then hope I do not have one of your exploding cargo holds fit.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#15 - 2016-06-02 13:07:24 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#16 - 2016-06-02 13:24:00 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
"Over my dead body" argument. Why are you so inclined to use it? Pirate
Do you really like dying so much? Lol

Well it is only a minor inconvenience so ...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#17 - 2016-06-02 14:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
"Over my dead body" argument. Why are you so inclined to use it? Pirate
Do you really like dying so much? Lol

Well it is only a minor inconvenience so ...

Yeah, like your ship worth 1 B and the rest of cargo. Those killmails is all what counts...

What I am proposing is not removing any of those brutal kinds of fun you would all like to see, I just make sure even more options would be available for gameplay. I just allow more refined gameplay.

So, to each his own. Maybe I should post it somewhere else. Like where CCP reads posts. Like where I would not get WE WERE GANKED every now and then and forums that would not eat my post few times per day.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2016-06-02 14:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Also going to say no to both the concept and idea behind the concept.

Why?
- It heavily penalizes any large, slow ship (and they already have plenty of penalties)
- it does not offer engaging gameplay IMO (you either fit the module or your ship/cargo is forfeit)
- The "mini-game" sounds tedious and, frankly, long (why can't I simply turn off power to the compromised areas of my ship and flood it with engine plasma? Much more efficient!)

Honestly... the concept of boarding parties has never been very realistic. The only times it happens in the real world is when one vessel FAR outlasses another... and even then, boarding only happens when one vessel effectively surrenders.
It is otherwise more effecient to simply blow up a target and pick through the remains.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#19 - 2016-06-02 15:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
ShahFluffers wrote:
Also going to say no to both the concept and idea behind the concept.

Why?
- It heavily penalizes any large, slow ship (and they already have plenty of penalties)
- it does not offer engaging gameplay IMO (you either fit the module or your ship/cargo is forfeit)
- The "mini-game" sounds tedious and, frankly, long (why can't I simply turn off power to the compromised areas of my ship and flood it with engine plasma? Much more efficient!)

Honestly... the concept of boarding parties has never been very realistic. The only times it happens in the real world is when one vessel FAR outlasses another... and even then, boarding only happens when one vessel effectively surrenders.
It is otherwise more effecient to simply blow up a target and pick through the remains.

Security bay would not be a module. Maybe that was not clear in initial post but every ship would have a Security bay of varying size as default in fitting window if this would become live on server. Just clarified that there.

Mini game would be tedious for bigger ships with more defence bay space for more units of defence. That would also mean more time spent under the suspect timer being fairly vulnerable to agression.
Surrendering vessel? Only without any defence parties inside and without guns, could happen, but would be a choice of the pilot to do so. One vessel far outclassing another? There is still range of that module, and smaller vessels are faster and could escape if not autopiloting. But these smaller vessels would be easier to gank still.

That would be ideal target for such Boarding module would be a slow transport ship like tech I or freighter or Orca autopiloting thru low sec or high sec with little players that could engage the perpetrator. Not small vesel, not big battleship. Those could be engaged, but it woud be harder. And picking thru the remains of some vessel, that is silly in my oppinion. The scale of silly like you would see pirates blowing up the cargo and sinking ships to later go underwater to search the wreck. No, its silly.

Sorry I am updating initial post at the whim, but it is still under development and I like to gather feedback and slightly tweak it. Thank you for revealing weak points in this concept.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-06-02 18:02:16 UTC
My ship has layers of shielding, armour plates, and structural systems that can withstand anything from the space equivalent of a kid throwing a rock (IE civilian guns), all the way up to what is essentially the death star laser. (ie a doomsday). How the hell are you going to cut through that with a boarding pod? And even if you do, my crew numbers in the hundreds, or the thousands.

http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=New_Eden_Crew_Guidelines

Good ******* luck.


nthing the 'if you want my ****, you kill me for it' thing.

(And also your 30 minute counter thing makes the module utterly worthless against anyone who happens to have an alt, but that';s not the issue here. Boarding parties have no place in this game.)
123Next page