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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Shield tank

Author
Xi-Nu73
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-04-24 20:16:17 UTC
Been looking at loadouts for a Mackinaw and a lot of those show a Adaptive Invulnerability Field, Thermal and Kinetic Amplifier. Since a Mackinaw is a shield tank, would it be better to use a EM Amplifier instead of Thermal or Kinetic?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2016-04-24 20:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Xi-Nu73 wrote:
Been looking at loadouts for a Mackinaw and a lot of those show a Adaptive Invulnerability Field, Thermal and Kinetic Amplifier. Since a Mackinaw is a shield tank, would it be better to use a EM Amplifier instead of Thermal or Kinetic?

Soooo... there is a reason why ship fitting is something of a "dark art" in this game.
And there is a reason why "there is no best fit" or "there is no one way to fit a ship."

Meta-gaming (see: imagining what your enemy is most likely going to bring against you and fitting yourself to counter that) has to be taken into account.

In this particular case;

Mining Barges generally have little to fear in high-sec (see: 1.0 to 0.5 space). Except for suicide gankers (see: people who deal as much damage as possible to blow up a player before the NPC police arrive to blow THEM up).

Generally speaking, the suicide ganking ship of choice is the Catalyst... a Gallente Destroyer that uses hybrid weapons.
Hybrid weapons only deal Kinetic and Thermal damage.

Ergo, you fit out your ship to resist Kinetic and Thermal damage more than anything else.

However, like everything else in this game, fitting your ship in such a way means that you are hedging your bets that...
- the gankers only have Catalysts on-hand (they could potentially use Thashers and/or Coercers).
- there are other, squishier targets nearby and the gankers don't want to change up tactics just for you.
- the lower damage potential of the other destroyers (Thashers and/or Coercers) will off-set the lower resistances to the damage types they deal.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-04-24 23:17:11 UTC
You also might want to consider what kind of damage the local rats are doing. If you are mining in SOV null sec you'll typically want to fit to resist the local rats since if PvP shows up and points you before you can GTFO then you are likely dead regardless of how much tank that you have fit.

There are exceptions and you can find people that go into low sec with barges fit with a point. There is also such a thing as bait, which in null sec can be accompanied by a cloaky bubble blower.

Anyway like ShahFluffers said there is no fit that is inherently good or bad in this game. Everything is situational.

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Xi-Nu73
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-04-25 02:25:00 UTC
Does Adaptive Invulnerability Field benefit from skill training in Kinetic, EM, Thermal and Explosive Shield Compensation?
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2016-04-25 03:32:06 UTC
Xi-Nu73 wrote:
Does Adaptive Invulnerability Field benefit from skill training in Kinetic, EM, Thermal and Explosive Shield Compensation?

Nope.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-04-25 03:35:39 UTC
I'm pretty sure only the passive resist mods do. However you can look under requirements to see if the skill is a prereque. It being there or not does not guarantee one way or another but I'd say that it is a good indicator.

Just FYI you can change your skills around in EFT so you can equip one of these and then change your skills and see if the numbers change on the mod. Also if you train the skill in game you can check before and after to be certain.

The short answer is that I do not know for certain.

For clarification passive resist modules do not need to be activated and do not have a GJ cap usage number in attributes. Active modules on the other hand do have a GJ ( Gigajule ) rating number as well as need to be activated to be of use.

Historically that skill did used to have a lower benefit for the active modules only when they were turned off. IIRC that is no longer the case. I'm not in game atm or I'd double check some of this stuff for you.

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2016-04-25 03:54:30 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Xi-Nu73 wrote:
Does Adaptive Invulnerability Field benefit from skill training in Kinetic, EM, Thermal and Explosive Shield Compensation?


The short answer is that I do not know for certain.

I can confirm that any "active hardeners" (see: resistance modules that need to be turned on in space) do not benefit from ((resistance)) Compensation skills. This goes for both armor and shield mods.

So no, Adaptive Invuln Fields do not benefit from the compensation skills.
However, resistance amplifiers do. But these modules don't see much use except in niche fits as they give lower resistance bonuses than their active variants.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2016-04-25 04:04:00 UTC
EM resistance amplifiers are common on shield tanking ships that can't fit an EM hardener. It is often the only resist amp skill worth training to level 5.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-04-25 10:05:11 UTC
Shah said it well in his first post. The Thermic and Kinetic resists are 'generally' better as the largest threat a barge 'generally' faces in high sec are gankers. That being said, if you are mining in .5 or .6 against rats using mainly EM damage, you may need to adjust for those. It's a choice aspect :)

Looks like they covered your question on Comp skills pretty well.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-04-25 15:34:21 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
EM resistance amplifiers are common on shield tanking ships that can't fit an EM hardener. It is often the only resist amp skill worth training to level 1.

Ftfy Big smile

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Titan's Lament

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#11 - 2016-04-25 15:51:58 UTC
No HiSec RAT will deal enough damage to endanger a well equipped mining ship. If your ship has drones, you can handle HiSec RATs (as long as it's not Circadian Sleepers... just stay away from them, you can't handle them period.)

No, what Shah said was perfectly accurate, it's really about the suicide gankers and in a Mack, that's a reality. You need to fit your ship to survive for 15 seconds against a ship that is going to alpha you and try to get some decent follow on DPS.

Adaptive Inv is good as it's a damage reduction scheme, but just one is really not enough. My calcs show you need to be about 70% reduction on incoming damage before you blunt that Alpha and the follow ups enough to survive long enough with confidence.

Your best defense is to RUN when another player warps in with a combat ship. If I'm a little bored and want to bug other locals I know, I conduct 'drills' on the regulars. I warp in with my T1 Cruiser at 10km to a field. I catch Macks, Retrievers, etc. All sitting there happily mining away -solo. I wake up the miner and tell him to watch his Dscan and overview.

Recall your Mack at full load is more than 3 times the cost of my T1 Cruiser set up for high Alpha and it is disposable compared to the possible reward if you've been solo mining a while. A catalyst is even cheaper (but lower dps).

So watch Dscan and overview. I actually have the other ships 'Warp' sound effect turned to maximum volume and that sound is my queue to get ready to skedaddle. Normally it's just incoming RAT's, which are free salvage to me, but if it's a player and a warship, I'm outta there... and I'M in a Procurer.

HiSec mining is NOT very profitable, but it's steady income if you need some dough for something. However, those trying to make it profitable and flying weaker ships set themselves up as targets for the gankers. If you are going to do it, do it right and that means your best defense is not being there when the hit arrives.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#12 - 2016-04-25 22:01:02 UTC
If you're worried about gankers, fly a brick tanked Skiff (or Procurer).
If you're not worried about gankers, then fit for max yield in the mining ship of your choice.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-04-25 22:08:15 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
No HiSec RAT will deal enough damage to endanger a well equipped mining ship. If your ship has drones, you can handle HiSec RATs (as long as it's not Circadian Sleepers... just stay away from them, you can't handle them period.)

I've had rats in a 0.5 point me and tear through my tank fast in a retriver, however that was before all the ship rebalancing. I've been living in null sec since then so I have no current experience on this.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#14 - 2016-04-25 23:25:43 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
I've had rats in a 0.5 point me and tear through my tank fast in a retriver......


the retriever has no tank worth mentioning. you could probably kill one with a noobship.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#15 - 2016-04-26 14:38:45 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
No HiSec RAT will deal enough damage to endanger a well equipped mining ship. If your ship has drones, you can handle HiSec RATs (as long as it's not Circadian Sleepers... just stay away from them, you can't handle them period.)

I've had rats in a 0.5 point me and tear through my tank fast in a retriver, however that was before all the ship rebalancing. I've been living in null sec since then so I have no current experience on this.


The worst RAT I've had is a Guristas cruiser and one light drone took about 60 seconds to off it, the frigates die in less than 20 seconds. I have seen the Sleepers though and just stay away from them. Then again, the worst I've had a RAT do for damage in my Procurer was one ding on my shields. Macks/Retrievers are a factor of about 3 weaker than the Procurer/Skiff. Covetors/Hulks have tissue paper for protection.

Exploration mining (Lo-Null-WH), that's going to be go cheap (Venture, etc.) or go tough (Procurer/Skiff). My recommendation is a Venture. It's built in Warp Stab resistance makes it really hard to trap. If you can get a combat escort, then you can do the Procurer/Skiff.

Just my limited experience. Yes, I have lost a Venture in wormhole space.... (don't want to repeat that debacle!) losing the procurer there would've hurt more...
Imustbecomfused
Illicit Expo
#16 - 2016-04-27 07:58:08 UTC
i can count to potato
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#17 - 2016-04-27 14:15:45 UTC
Imustbecomfused wrote:
i can count to potato


Please don't troll NQ&A

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Sir Dude
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2016-04-28 04:22:42 UTC
When it comes to mining and hauling, my general philosophy is......

"High sec is about lasting long enough for CONCORD to show up and do it's work and low/null sec is about not getting caught in the first place."

The main problem with mining and hauling ships is the pedestrian time it takes to get into warp. In high sec this isn't so much of an issue but becomes more problematic in low/null.

As a general rule for high sec then go down the shield+rig tank route for something like a Mackinaw. You can tank them to about 20k EHP ish (depending on your skills) which should be fine in high sec to outlast all but the most concerted and profession gank attempt and that would need.....say, 5 high dps ships to pull-it-off.

The gankers often rely on you not tanking your miner or hauler to make a successful gank. Lots of Mackinaws and Retrievers get ganked due to this, I reckon.

As long as you tank it then you should be OK mostly. You could always use the invulnerability shield plus, shield recharger, survey scanner and a shield extender....then put in the rigs a thermal and kinetic shield amplifier. That would also work.

If you are really concerned about it sling in a damage control II in a low slot......however, some folks might consider that a little OTT. Haha