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Market Discussions

 
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Minerbumping.com

First post
Author
Fin Udan
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-04-21 03:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Fin Udan
A few days ago I made a 'throwaway' post in the Halaima Ipo thread. I think it might have been along the lines of :- "Isn't it about time this was moved to Crime and Punishment forum"

This post was made on an emotional basis and created emotional responses and I subsequently made further posts and also created 2 further threads relating to the same subjects. All of the content was removed from the Halaima Ipo thread and the 2 further threads I created were locked.

I now acknowledge that all of the posts I have made regarding this matter have been an emotional response to a website I found objectionable. I now realise that none of my posts presented a reasoned basis for CCP to agree to my request that the Halaima Ipo thread be moved to Crime and Punishment.

In this post I intend to analyse my gut reaction to Minerbumping.com but more pertinently I have examined the Forum Rules to see if I could find a rules based objection to Halaima Ipo thread remaining in this forum.

The posting of chat logs is expressly forbidden in this forum.

Here is the rule :-

" 35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread."

Here is the Crime and Punishment forum rule :-

"Chatlogs and "fanmail"

The posting of chatlogs and EVEmails is not permitted, as past experience has shown us that these have a tendency to incite flames and trolling. (quite)

An exception to this is the Pirate Stories Thread, where players can post chatlogs (with the names of victims/counterparts blanked out) as part of a pirate story or experience."

Minerbumping.com publishes extensive excerpts from chat logs and is probably the primary reason for it's existence

James 315 posts a link to Minerbumping.com in every post he makes. Any member of the Market Discussions forum clicking on that link will immediately be taken to chat logs published in full without names being redacted.

Thus James 315 deliberately flouts CCP posting policy by creating a website where CCPs policies on the posting of chat logs are completely ignored. This is the crux of the issue. By continually posting a link to his website James 315 is effectively posting chat logs in the Market Discussions forum albeit one step removed.

There are 2 solutions to this :-

1/ All references to Minerbumping.com be removed from the Halaima Ipo thread. This in my view would then restore The Halaima Ipo thread as being a valid Market Discussions thread. James 315 would then be free to create a thread in the Crime and Punishment forum promoting advertising etc his Minerbumping.com website

2/ Move the Halaima Ipo thread to Crime and Punishment complete with it's links to published chat logs.

I would specifically like a written CCP response to the permissability or otherwise of circumventing the chat log rules by publishing chat logs at one step removed and then publishing links to them in Forums where the direct publishing of such chat logs would be prohibited.

Thank you for reading this Smile

I trade Eve Mogul

Thermal Damage
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#2 - 2016-04-21 05:22:34 UTC
Shut up you tart

I was found guilty of Nitshe by the CoCaP

Makeleth Riatu Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-04-21 05:31:53 UTC
Playing devil's advocate here: Even though he's being a stiff about this, he has a point about the chatlog thing. So unless I'm missing something here, this is a valid post with points.

Mail me if you'd like some marketing advice or advice in general

Thermal Damage
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#4 - 2016-04-21 05:35:33 UTC
Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here: Even though he's being a stiff about this, he has a point about the chatlog thing. So unless I'm missing something here, this is a valid post with points.


Even so, just report it.

And dont demand a response from CCP hahaha

I was found guilty of Nitshe by the CoCaP

lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#5 - 2016-04-21 08:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: lanyaie
Dear Fin Udan,

From what I understand, you are now aware of your previous posts breaking the rules. This one does the same, it is also completely unrelated to MD.
While I won't go in on whether the thread you're referring to needs to be moderated, I would like to say that it has been around for 3 years now. I suspect that if they have let it slide for over 3 years, they will continue to do so - regardless of any effort you might put into it.
Why? Because you're not the first to be upset with code and their actions, and I'm pretty sure that if there is anything that can be reported about them, someone will have already done it.

I suggest instead of trying to get them to adhere to the rules, you set the example by doing so first. This would mean not constantly creating posts discussing this, because just as their posts (according to you) this does not belong in MD. Bring your issues to the people who moderate the forums.
Currently, all you are doing is opening yourself up to trolls who would like nothing more than to feast on you. To them, you're one of the many who dislike the code.
Just keep that in mind, your crusade is one of many and likely will prove to be unsuccessful. Don't waste your time any further on those people. They're big bad meanies Roll

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#6 - 2016-04-21 08:56:06 UTC
Links to killmails and chat logs are fine I believe, search my posts for relevant dev quotes on the matter.

Also, you should just report the posts and move on, if you feel ISD are not doing their job properly then you can create a support ticket on the issue. Breaking the rules yourself isn't going to help your case.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#7 - 2016-04-21 08:56:52 UTC
If CCP sets the precedent requested in the OP - namely that links to sites - particularly MinerBumping.com - which contain chat logs count as a breach of the chat log posting rule - then in order to follow that precedent there would need to be a prohibition not only on posting MinerBumping.com but many other sites containing chat logs, including most of the major news sites. For these other sites, CCP would either have to break the precedent, causing dissatisfaction among players who value transparency in moderation policies, or stick to the precedent and substantially reduce the content on the forum in general.

Bearing this in mind, the status quo is the optimal solution for the forum ecosystem.
Fin Udan
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-04-21 09:17:10 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
If CCP sets the precedent requested in the OP - namely that links to sites - particularly MinerBumping.com - which contain chat logs count as a breach of the chat log posting rule - then in order to follow that precedent there would need to be a prohibition not only on posting MinerBumping.com but many other sites containing chat logs, including most of the major news sites. For these other sites, CCP would either have to break the precedent, causing dissatisfaction among players who value transparency in moderation policies, or stick to the precedent and substantially reduce the content on the forum in general.

Bearing this in mind, the status quo is the optimal solution for the forum ecosystem.


My complaint is not about external sites publishing unredacted chat logs. I have no problem with that whatsoever

My complaint is about circumventing CCPs rules by posting links to unredacted chat logs instead of posting the chat logs themself.

Minerbumping.com is not breaking any rules in publishing unredacted chat logs. My question is a very simple one. Is it permissable to post links in Eve forums to those externally published unredacted chat logs with the express intention of circumventing CCPs rules regarding the posting of unredacted chat logs in Eves' forums.

If CCP says it is permissable then this will be my very last word on the subject.




I trade Eve Mogul

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#9 - 2016-04-21 10:06:52 UTC
Quote:

Forum rules

13. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to insert other game name” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of “thread necromancy” which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason.



Closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department