These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Looking for fitting help for advanced military mission, the exam
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dylan Finch
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-04-16 18:27:39 UTC
Hi. I'm getting ready to the mission above (it's the last of the chain). I'm given a Catalyst when I accept the mission and I'm trying to figure out best fitting. The agent says the terrorists will be using both a warp scrambler and stasis webifier on me, so I'm thinking range is my friend. I was planning to use this PVE mission basic fitting that I found on the EVE uni wiki: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Catalyst/Fittings. Then I figured I'd use the afterburner and do my best to stay at about 10,000 m with the railguns. Looks like optimal range is 9000 m but accuracy falloff is 5000 m.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach? Any alternatives?

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2016-04-16 18:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
You seem to have the gist of things. And yes, staying at range using an Afterburner is a reasonable approach.

With regards to range:
"Optimal range" is more or less defined as the range where you will potentially deal full damage... provided your volley hits the target.
"Falloff range" is where your odds of scoring a hit and/or the quality of your hit suffers. At 50% into "Falloff range" you will more or less be dealing half as much overall damage as you would in "Optimal range."

Pro-tip 1: The best range to be at is right at the edge of your "Optimal range." This will help you when it comes to weapon tracking... which can be tricky for a beginner.

Pro-tip 2: Different ammo types give different ranges and damage amounts. Generally speaking... close range ammo deals the most damage, long range ammo deals the least damage.
For a Catalyst, I would recommend using Lead (mid range, mid damage) as your primary ammo with Anti-matter (short range, high damage) as a good secondary (for when there is an NPC you simply can't crack at range).

Pro-tip 3: Don't always fit the biggest guns possible. You can get similar to more damage by fitting smaller "bore" weapons and then fitting Magnetic Field Stabilizers.

Pro-tip 4: Don't mix your guns. Use the same weapon type and name. The reason for this is that different weapons have different ranges and tracking speeds. You want to have one range and tracking speed to keep in mind when engaging a target. This way, you can focus more on everything else happening around you.

How did you Veterans start?
Memphis Baas
#3 - 2016-04-16 23:54:52 UTC
You also want to immediately target and kill the ships that apply the warp disruption and webification. You should see the icons for warp disruptor and for webifier on the overview, on the right side, for each ship that is jamming you. Kill those asap even if other ships are doing more damage to you.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-04-17 11:50:46 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
You also want to immediately target and kill the ships that apply the warp disruption and webification. You should see the icons for warp disruptor and for webifier on the overview, on the right side, for each ship that is jamming you. Kill those asap even if other ships are doing more damage to you.

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports

While this specific mission does not seem to be on Eve survival ( probably because it is a career mission ) eve-survival.org is a good source for looking up info on other missions. In other missions that you will get from normal mission agents often the scramming NPC are also the triggers. Meaning if you kill them first you can make things more difficult on yourself. This is more general missioning advice rather than specific to this mission.

I am not familiar with this mission as these missions were introduced after I had been playing for a while. However a quick google search shows what appear to be some decent resources:
https://www.google.com/#q=eve+mission+the+exam

I am on crappy hotel internet or I'd check out some of the videos and try to link a specific one.

Also keep in mind that during the military career missions there is one mission where you WILL loose your ship. I'm not sure which one it is but just so you know at some point you'll have to become comfortable with your ship being more like ammo than your home.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-04-17 13:27:03 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:


Also keep in mind that during the military career missions there is one mission where you WILL loose your ship. I'm not sure which one it is but just so you know at some point you'll have to become comfortable with your ship being more like ammo than your home.


Its the "Angel of mercy" mission i believe. They do tell you that you will lose your ship, and therefore you should insure it.
Dylan Finch
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-04-17 20:17:18 UTC
Thanks so much for all of the replies. So I ended up buying an Algos instead for running that last mission because it looked good for doing the SoE epic arc (which I have now started) and as a possibility for doing low level DED complexes and combat exploration sites. This is the fit I'm using right now:

125 mm railgun X 5 (using Iron Charge S)

1MN Afterburner I
Small Cap Booster I (200 charge)
Stasis Webifier I

Drone Damage Amplifier I
Small Armor Repairer I
Reactive Armor Hardener

Hobgoblin I X 3
Warrior I X 2

So far it seems to be working for me but I'm only about 4 or 5 missions into the arc and have had very little combat. Does this seem like something I can use for the duration of the SoE epic arc? Would anyone recommend changes? From reading a bit it seems like this could also be shield tanked with certain changes to modules. Would that be a better way to go? Also, I'm using the Iron Charge S because I thought it was good for maintaining range (I'm basically sending in my drones and orbiting at about 10,000 m). Would I be better off replacing the 2 Warrior I drones with 2 additional Hobgoblins? If fit correctly can the Algos be used for exploration combat sites and low level DED complexes?
Stanijiro Karagora
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-04-18 09:48:46 UTC
I'm a bit of a newbie myself, so take all that follow with caution ^^

- 3 mid slots is a bit low to shield tank, I think ;
- webifier is not very useful against NPC, you (and your drones) are small enough to be able to track small targets anyway ;
- for drones, do as for weapons : keep them 5 the same. I do believe, but could be wrong, that the damage modifier of Hobgob make them better against almost all rats resist profils. I'd go for 5 of them ;
- I wouldn't think as 10 km as "range". You could as well get full brawler and opt for the short range/high damage ammo. In my view, range would be 30+ km.

Again, that's more food for the thought ; any vet can prove me wrong with ease, and I would thank him for that ^^

If the stone fall on the egg, woe betide the egg; if the egg fall on the stone, woe betide the egg
Ka Plaa
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-04-18 16:13:39 UTC
Gallente and Amarr ships are generally best armor tanked, Caldari and Minmatar generally best shield tanked. Drone-using ships are great for PVE. Mixing drone types for different situations is ok, sometimes best - but for now just stick with all lights or mediums. The drones skill is well worth training to five, also drone avionics and drone interfacing. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Skills:DronesBig smile

"The Crowd Is Untruth" - Kierkegaard
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2016-04-20 00:31:52 UTC
Stanijiro Karagora wrote:

- for drones, do as for weapons : keep them 5 the same. I do believe, but could be wrong, that the damage modifier of Hobgob make them better against almost all rats resist profils. I'd go for 5 of them ;


Again, that's more food for the thought ; any vet can prove me wrong with ease, and I would thank him for that ^^

Using 5 of the same drones would probably be best in a specific situation. However if you are fitting for more general stuff, sometime mixing it up can be good.

As far as hobs being the best for every resist profile, if there is any truth to that it is only if you ignore all other factors except paper dps.

It is true that hobs have the highest damage modifier. However that comes at the expense of nearly everything else. They are:
-The worst tracking
-The slowest speed
-The shortest optimal

Especially if you are planning on a kitting fit travel time with drones can be significant. Often my drones take longer to get to the target than they do to kill it.

Open the "show info" UI on all 4 races light drone. Then go to the variations tab and click compare. Do this for all 4 races. Then go to the list and remove everything but the ones that you are looking at. For my example I checked "meta level" and then clicked the meta level column to sort by meta and then selected everything except T1 drones which are meta 0 so I was left with only the 4 meta 0 or T1 light drones.

Then select the attributes that you want to compare. For my example I selected:
Tracking speed
Damage modifier
Max velocity

What I came up with:
Drone...............Tracking speed...........Max Velocity............Damage Modifier
Acolyte I:..........2.49 rad/sec.................3,850 m/sec............1.4 x
Hobgoblin I:....1.815 rad/sec...............2,800 m/sec............1.6 x
Hornet I:.......... 2.04 rad/sec.................3,150 m/sec............1.5 x
Warrior I:..........2.7 rad/sec...................4,200 m/sec............1.3 x

Comparing hobs to the warriors, hobs have:
18% higher raw damage
50% slower
48% slower tracking

The one fight in the SoE arc that most new players have an issue with is killing Dagan. For that fight where you are using small drones up against a medium ship then tracking and speed probably don't matter much if at all. So for the SoE epic arc the hobs might be ok however I'm not familiar with Dagan's resist profile.

If you are doing other missions or some other form of PvE then other drones might be better. In PvP warriors and warrior IIs are very popular.

My recommendation is to turn on damage notifications for drone damage. You can go back and check your logs after the fight. If you are using hobs and missing a lot or getting a lot of "barely scratched" kind of hits try something that tracks better or get a drone tracking link. If your drones are spending more time traveling than killing the target then try something faster.

What I do is just match my damage type to the NPCs biggest resist hole but that's mostly because I'm too lazy to figure stuff out.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Dylan Finch
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-04-21 12:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dylan Finch
Thanks for this extremely helpful info. Yes, I have noticed that my drones can be slow to get to the target but and as I've only been fighting in hi sec so mostly frigates they kill amazingly fast. I thought when I started that I would just do the SoE epic arc in this ship but last night I was practicing scanning in my Heron in hi sec and I found a bunch of combat sites so I decided to hop in my Algos and go check them out and found a site that said it was 3/10. It went 5 or 6 acceleration gates deep and I ended up with about 8 million isk worth of stuff (including a 7th tier overseer's personal effects) and didn't lose my ship but I did realize how little I know about flying and fighting. I currently have a stasis webifier in one of the mids but I never use it. I try and stay at about 10 to 12 meters away from the rats (orbit them) and send in my drones. Is there something better I should put in that mid slot or should I be using the stasis webifier.

Also, I found a combat site last night called Yan Jung Ruins. When I went in it said there was something was causing a disturbance and preventing me from using my modules so I couldn't attack anything and needed kill it first with EM damage, although I early was able to warp out. I want to go back to that site. I assume what I need to do is get some Acolytes to go back and shoot whatever was causing the "disturbance?" I know my drones are doing most of the damage but is there a certain type of ammo I can use that does EM damage? Sorry for all of the very newb questions. I've been trying to Google as much as I can but there is info scattered so many places and some of it conflicts with other info and it is sometimes hard to know if something older is still relevant.

ergherhdfgh wrote:
Stanijiro Karagora wrote:

- for drones, do as for weapons : keep them 5 the same. I do believe, but could be wrong, that the damage modifier of Hobgob make them better against almost all rats resist profils. I'd go for 5 of them ;


Again, that's more food for the thought ; any vet can prove me wrong with ease, and I would thank him for that ^^

Using 5 of the same drones would probably be best in a specific situation. However if you are fitting for more general stuff, sometime mixing it up can be good.

As far as hobs being the best for every resist profile, if there is any truth to that it is only if you ignore all other factors except paper dps.

It is true that hobs have the highest damage modifier. However that comes at the expense of nearly everything else. They are:
-The worst tracking
-The slowest speed
-The shortest optimal

Especially if you are planning on a kitting fit travel time with drones can be significant. Often my drones take longer to get to the target than they do to kill it.

Open the "show info" UI on all 4 races light drone. Then go to the variations tab and click compare. Do this for all 4 races. Then go to the list and remove everything but the ones that you are looking at. For my example I checked "meta level" and then clicked the meta level column to sort by meta and then selected everything except T1 drones which are meta 0 so I was left with only the 4 meta 0 or T1 light drones.

Then select the attributes that you want to compare. For my example I selected:
Tracking speed
Damage modifier
Max velocity

What I came up with:
Drone...............Tracking speed...........Max Velocity............Damage Modifier
Acolyte I:..........2.49 rad/sec.................3,850 m/sec............1.4 x
Hobgoblin I:....1.815 rad/sec...............2,800 m/sec............1.6 x
Hornet I:.......... 2.04 rad/sec.................3,150 m/sec............1.5 x
Warrior I:..........2.7 rad/sec...................4,200 m/sec............1.3 x

Comparing hobs to the warriors, hobs have:
18% higher raw damage
50% slower
48% slower tracking

The one fight in the SoE arc that most new players have an issue with is killing Dagan. For that fight where you are using small drones up against a medium ship then tracking and speed probably don't matter much if at all. So for the SoE epic arc the hobs might be ok however I'm not familiar with Dagan's resist profile.

If you are doing other missions or some other form of PvE then other drones might be better. In PvP warriors and warrior IIs are very popular.

My recommendation is to turn on damage notifications for drone damage. You can go back and check your logs after the fight. If you are using hobs and missing a lot or getting a lot of "barely scratched" kind of hits try something that tracks better or get a drone tracking link. If your drones are spending more time traveling than killing the target then try something faster.

What I do is just match my damage type to the NPCs biggest resist hole but that's mostly because I'm too lazy to figure stuff out.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2016-04-21 21:22:11 UTC
Dylan Finch wrote:
I currently have a stasis webifier in one of the mids but I never use it. I try and stay at about 10 to 12 meters away from the rats (orbit them) and send in my drones. Is there something better I should put in that mid slot or should I be using the stasis webifier.

Go through the market. Any module with two dashes or short line segments in the lower right-hand corner is for a mid slot. Things with one dash are for low and things with three dashes in a wye pattern ( shaped like a Y ) is for a high slot. Get familiar with what is out there and try different stuff. Some things that I can think of off the top of my head:
Drone Navigation Computer
Omnidirectional Tracking Computer
Tracking computer
Target Painter
Warp scram or disruptor
Sensor Booster
Sensor Dampeners
Tracking Disruptor

Each of them has their uses and some have some not so obvious benefits. Like the TP will help you do damage sure but it will also help to keep aggro on you and off of your drones. A scram can be used not only to point high value belt rats that sometime warp off but can also be used to shut off the MWD on NPCs that have them and often like to orbit close and fast.
Dylan Finch wrote:

Also, I found a combat site last night called Yan Jung Ruins. When I went in it said there was something was causing a disturbance and preventing me from using my modules so I couldn't attack anything and needed kill it first with EM damage, although I early was able to warp out. I want to go back to that site. I assume what I need to do is get some Acolytes to go back and shoot whatever was causing the "disturbance?" I know my drones are doing most of the damage but is there a certain type of ammo I can use that does EM damage? Sorry for all of the very newb questions. I've been trying to Google as much as I can but there is info scattered so many places and some of it conflicts with other info and it is sometimes hard to know if something older is still relevant.

Hybrids can only do kinetic / thermal damage. If you want to do EM you'll need to fit lazors or projectiles onto your ship. Yes you can put cross-factional turrets on your ship you just won't get the bonus if your ship has one that applies to hybrids.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli