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Skill extractor rips off Vetrans

Author
Cpt Mangrum
Team Popcorn
Pancake Surprise
#1 - 2016-03-23 16:13:44 UTC
Quick simple and short!

You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.

This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.

In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#2 - 2016-03-23 16:43:48 UTC
I'm with you on this.
Not sure if there is a remedy that somehow wouldn't be abused though. (without serious micro-managed transactions from CCP)

The problem would be: Someone could purchase a character, then it really is his. Then the veteran would get full SP transfer.
The whole program was designed so that newbs could have the opportunity to *catch up*. (Well, and generate RL income for CCP)

If what you're talking about is re-allocation for same character. That would almost have to be another program itself.

Remember: Before extractors, most pilots would have loved the prospect of being able to DELETE science or reprocessing skills for nothing. No return at all, except a cleaner character sheet.
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2016-03-24 13:27:19 UTC
Cpt Mangrum wrote:
Quick simple and short!

You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.

This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.

In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.


It is about as fair as how many of us trained mining skills in the first place because we were new and did not know better. Then we were stuck with those skills which were basically "wasted" skillpoints in 99.999% of our daily lives.

Getting a diminishing return is better than getting no return at all in you really want those skillpoints.

One of the main reasons that the diminishing returns was added was to prevent people from taking advantage of the situation. Think of a spy account or corp theft that could just move all their skills over to a new toon. You could buy an old toon of the bazaar and basically have a fully trained toon ready to do whatever you needed instantly.

Another reason was to prevent older toons from driving the price super high. The diminishing returns discourages older players from simply buying every skill as to do it, it would be super expensive.

YES, I KNOW THERE ARE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO BOUGH MAX TOONS. THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION AND NOT THE RULE.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#4 - 2016-03-24 16:34:45 UTC
a river.
crai me one?

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#5 - 2016-05-18 15:01:26 UTC
Another CPP gimmick to sell the game to noobs. We need the noobs not to be able to jump in ships they are not ready for.
Let them train nice and easy. We had one noob could not fly decent frig but had skills for a BC
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#6 - 2016-05-18 15:25:19 UTC
skill extractors are not for veterans

/thread
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2016-05-18 23:39:22 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
skill extractors are not for veterans

/thread

Skill extractors are for veterans.

Skill injectors are not for veterans.

/thread
DriftedAway
POS Party
Ember Sands
#8 - 2016-05-19 11:31:40 UTC
Skelee VI wrote:
Another CPP gimmick to sell the game to noobs. We need the noobs not to be able to jump in ships they are not ready for.
Let them train nice and easy. We had one noob could not fly decent frig but had skills for a BC



sounds like me on my first account back on 2014... (i played 14 days and left do to the old lose skillpoints when you get podded)

i have to say i learned my lesson but ive been using skill injectors so i can actually fight back against a wardeck and to invest in skills. i might buy till i hit 4 million sp but then i have better things to spend money one
Moustache Cuir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-06-02 09:03:08 UTC
What's vetran? some kind of AD pills?
Skill extractors are fine, they give the opportunity to newbies to catch up with older players (it's also a great way to help out an IRL friend that just started playing) - some of the newbies in my corp now play with that in mind: "whenever I have over 1.7b I'll buy an injector". Yet a *very* (VERY) small minority of players will truly be able to catch up, they'll need to make BUTTLOADS of iskies in order to do so. And if they do it through plexing, then it's no different from the character marketplace.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-07-04 12:34:47 UTC
Repeatedly bashes face against keyboard hoping that it will make the pain of reading this thread go away...
Kalmr Varys
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-07-05 17:40:59 UTC
It would be very dumb to give the full 500k sp of an injector to an account with 80m+ sp.

It's a safe guess that during the design meetings for extractors/injectors, CCP debated the idea of allowing for an extractor to extract straight to unallocated SP on that account for no penalty. Why they decided to reject this we'll never know, but it's probably something they decided didn't add value to the game.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#12 - 2016-07-07 15:19:42 UTC
Think of how it would be abused if vets didn't lose SP with injectors. We're short of logi for the next fight? quick, dump all your SP and inject them into force auxiliaries. Now we need a T3 fleet to jump into a WH? Dump those logi skills and throw them into a proteus/gunnery. Get the idea?

There has to be a loss of SPs for vets to prevent abuse. Working as intended.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
The Bastion
#13 - 2016-07-07 21:16:45 UTC
Eh there's still the cost of extractors to help prevent that from happening. You very well may be right that that's the reason, but I think it would have been less of an issue than you think
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#14 - 2016-07-27 08:24:11 UTC
Cpt Mangrum wrote:
Quick simple and short!

You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.

This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.

In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.


skill injectors are neither designed for veterans nor are a SP respec tool.
From this standpoint of view, your objection is void.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#15 - 2016-07-29 18:38:33 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Cpt Mangrum wrote:
Quick simple and short!

You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.

This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.

In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.


skill injectors are neither designed for veterans nor are a SP respec tool.
From this standpoint of view, your objection is void.



Given the inaccuracy of your previous comment, your post is void.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-07-30 07:50:37 UTC
Would it would be a reasonable idea to have several levels of injectors?

How about a 200k a 350k and then the 500k one?

It would still partly be an sp sink, just not as much...maybe.

I look at like this, an over 55 goes to buy some chocolate bars but can only get a pack of five, but then he's told he can only eat 3 and has to throw the other 2 away, next he gets told that no, he can't just buy 3, he has to get all 5 and pay for them!

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-08-04 21:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dornier Pfeil
Cpt Mangrum wrote:
Quick simple and short!

You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.

This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.

In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.


I imagine the language you are looking for is that the extractor has the requisite intelligence to recognize the exact brain the skill points came out of and returns them in toto.

The reason this is bad is: it eliminates the need to skill plan entirely. I just remap into Intel/Mem and never again have to remap. I just train the same skills over and over again whenever I need to train any off map skills and then just move the previously-trained-at-optimal-2700sp/hour-rate points. CCP will never do this unless they get rid of attributes and remapping entirely.
Aspen Neva
#18 - 2016-08-22 17:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Aspen Neva
Cpt Mangrum wrote:
Quick simple and short!

You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.

This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.

In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.



Diminishing returns allow to avoid abuse of the system.

If you could transfert SP from one branch to an other without DR, then you would remap towards only two attributes paired with two implants of said attributes and perma skill up one branch.
Then every now and then you would transfert SP to other branches rendering attributes/remap/other implants useless.

DR is a good thing. I'm glad they made it and the DR tier are also very well thought and impactful in a good way.
Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
#19 - 2016-09-11 16:05:24 UTC
TO be honest the diminishing returns didn't bother me that much, i sucked out all of my old Mining, reprocessing, and barge skills that i havent really used since early 2013 and replaced them with Missile, Gunnery, and other supporting skills that i will get much more use out of before i wind up in a retriever again. Sure i was extracting 500K and only getting what 300? 250k? I forget per booster but it still felt worth it to be able to say goodbye to skills that were gathering brain dust and instead do something productive with them.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Julius Priscus
#20 - 2016-09-25 10:44:22 UTC
Skelee VI wrote:
We need the noobs not to be able to jump in ships they are not ready for.
Let them train nice and easy. We had one noob could not fly decent frig but had skills for a BC



players have been doing that since for ever.. and they will continue to do so.
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