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[March] Sensor and ECCM Module Merger/Tiericide

First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-02-11 19:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello everyone!
We're planning a huge set of module tiericide in our March release and this thread will serve as the feedback location for changes to ECCM, Sensor Boosters, Remote ECCM, Remote Sensor Boosters, Sensor Backup Arrays and Signal Amplifiers.

These changes are pretty huge, and include a complete merger of all ECCM into their respective Sensor Booster modules.

One of the worst things about the ECCM, Remote ECCM, and Sensor Backup Array modules is that they feel terrible for the user when nobody tries to jam you (or when you get jammed anyways since there are no guarantees with randomness). To solve this problem we are adding Omni ECCM effects to Sensor Boosters, Remote Sensor Boosters and Signal Amplifier modules, and adding a new ECCM script for the active modules. Existing ECCM modules and blueprints will be converted on patch day into their closest sensor boosting equivalent.

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

This change also has the added benefit of reducing the number of modules a new player needs to learn about by over 100 (we actually had 72 kinds of Sensor Backup Arrays in the game alone, it blew my mind).

As for the non-ECCM part of the Sensor Booster tiericide, we are increasing fitting costs a bit and adding new Rogue Drone faction and officer varieties. The new faction RSBs intentionally provide a very small benefit for scan resolution over T2, as we don't want to significantly buff instalock camps at this time. They provide some great targeting range and sensor strength however.

Here's the most recent iteration of the numbers:
[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67557/1/SensorBoosters.jpg[/img]

We're very interested in your feedback on all these changes. We'll be releasing them to Singularity next week if all goes well, so that you can try these and all the other module changes planned for the March release. Please use this thread for passing along your feedback, and we'll be reading.

Thanks!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-02-11 19:41:26 UTC
Reserved

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Sydious
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-02-11 19:48:41 UTC
Clear Skies had you beat on this by a few years.
Ashterothi
Kybernauts
#4 - 2016-02-11 19:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashterothi
Help me understand:

Your problem statement is "One of the worst things about the ECCM, Remote ECCM, and Sensor Backup Array modules is that they feel terrible for the user when nobody tries to jam you (or when you get jammed anyways since there are no guarantees with randomness)."

However your solution is " adding Omni ECCM effects to Sensor Boosters, Remote Sensor Boosters and Signal Amplifier modules, and adding a new ECCM script for the active modules."

While this does decrease the number of modules that is necessary, it doesn't rightly address the issue you stated. It solves a *different* issue, that of needing to collect too many extra modules for your different ships, but it doesn't address the fact that an ECCM module that is fit feels like a waste when you are not under jam pressure, or when the jam still succeeds.

Can you help me understand how this connection was made?

Edit: The Answer is that since ECCM is getting merged with SEBOs, they will still have that value even when not under jam pressure.
Gremk
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Freight Train Diplomacy
#5 - 2016-02-11 19:57:09 UTC
This is a good change. Nice job CCP.
Papazoglou
I'm Sorry Shoot What?
WE FORM V0LTA
#6 - 2016-02-11 20:01:13 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
Help me understand:

Your problem statement is "One of the worst things about the ECCM, Remote ECCM, and Sensor Backup Array modules is that they feel terrible for the user when nobody tries to jam you (or when you get jammed anyways since there are no guarantees with randomness)."

However your solution is " adding Omni ECCM effects to Sensor Boosters, Remote Sensor Boosters and Signal Amplifier modules, and adding a new ECCM script for the active modules."

While this does decrease the number of modules that is necessary, it doesn't rightly address the issue you stated. It solves a *different* issue, that of needing to collect too many extra modules for your different ships, but it doesn't address the fact that an ECCM module that is fit feels like a waste when you are not under jam pressure, or when the jam still succeeds.

Can you help me understand how this connection was made?


I think the point is if you're not facing enemies with ECM there is still a benefit of extra sensor strength or targeting range. Its not just a useless module that takes up a slot.
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages
#7 - 2016-02-11 20:02:08 UTC
Well Played CCP,

Really nice change.
Arla Sarain
#8 - 2016-02-11 20:06:26 UTC
Yep,
The future is now.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-02-11 20:08:29 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
but it doesn't address the fact that an ECCM module that is fit feels like a waste when you are not under jam pressure, or when the jam still succeeds.

It does. If you are not under jam pressure you can switch out the script and get your sensor strength or lock range boosted.
stg slate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-02-11 20:09:19 UTC
About time, awesome work goodsir!
Suodemon
Errant Endeavours
#11 - 2016-02-11 20:13:00 UTC
Doing the numbers on the T2 SEBO, and the scripted sensor strength comes out at 76.8 assuming 60% like the scan res and targeting range scripts. Current ECCM modules provide 96%. Did I just do the math wrong?
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#12 - 2016-02-11 20:18:15 UTC
This is the change ECCM/ECM has needed so people will stop complaining about ECM being OP so much. Give value to the module that isn't niche so people will actually have a module that gives them a bonus while on grid when they are not being jammed.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#13 - 2016-02-11 20:19:45 UTC
Looks great.

As a logi pilot, the flexibility to adapt to the situation with scripts is wonderful.

Thanks! 7o
Albrecht Patrouette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-02-11 20:21:26 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

By the way, I really hate having to choose the right hardeners based upon the weapons I think might be used against me. It sucks so much having thermal used when I planned on kinetic. So . . . gonna lump those together now, too?
Ashterothi
Kybernauts
#15 - 2016-02-11 20:24:13 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
but it doesn't address the fact that an ECCM module that is fit feels like a waste when you are not under jam pressure, or when the jam still succeeds.

It does. If you are not under jam pressure you can switch out the script and get your sensor strength or lock range boosted.

That's the part I didn't latch onto, Thanks!
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2016-02-11 20:27:18 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

By the way, I really hate having to choose the right hardeners based upon the weapons I think might be used against me. It sucks so much having thermal used when I planned on kinetic. So . . . gonna lump those together now, too?


Those both depend on collecting or predicting information that may be unknown or may change (what race of ship you'll be facing and what damage type you're receiving (PVE is a known quantity but that's a different issue)). What ship you are currently flying is always information that is available to you.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Seymarr
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#17 - 2016-02-11 20:29:53 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

Yes, because whereas your choice of which jams to fit lets you prepare to counter different threats or have different opportunities as the battlefield evolves (fit more Amarr jams to counter guardian support, fit more Caldari for counter-jam work, etc.), there is no reason to ever fit an off-race ECCM. You don't counter a different type of setup by fitting the wrong ECCM, you just waste a slot. It's not a "choice" if there's only ever one correct decision.
Kosetzu
Aeons Multiplied
#18 - 2016-02-11 20:32:19 UTC
Seymarr wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

Yes, because whereas your choice of which jams to fit lets you prepare to counter different threats or have different opportunities as the battlefield evolves (fit more Amarr jams to counter guardian support, fit more Caldari for counter-jam work, etc.), there is no reason to ever fit an off-race ECCM. You don't counter a different type of setup by fitting the wrong ECCM, you just waste a slot. It's not a "choice" if there's only ever one correct decision.

Would be really awesome if ECM had scripts for different sensor types instead of different modules.
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-02-11 20:33:51 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
This is the change ECCM/ECM has needed so people will stop complaining about ECM being OP so much. Give value to the module that isn't niche so people will actually have a module that gives them a bonus while on grid when they are not being jammed.

What I think people don't like about ECM that many have pointed out is it has no counter play. If you are jammed, that's it. You can no do absolutely nothing of value for the next 20 seconds in addition to the time it takes to relock targets. Oh and heaven help you if you had someone tackled and they vomited out some light ECM drones on you and escaped. ECM drones are the most produced drone for all the EW drones than all other drones combined. The reason is very obvious. They are super cheap and turns any ship with a drone bay into a Kitsune.

ECM is not a fun game mechanic. It is a dice roll to see if players are allowed to play the game or not. Merging these modules initially sounds good and does help the situation some, but still does absolutely nothing to address the fact being jammed offers no counter play what so ever. ECM is just a terrible game mechanic that is a relic from old game design philosophy.
Jayden Thomas
The Filth Columnists
#20 - 2016-02-11 20:36:45 UTC
Excellent. A much needed improvement, and CCP didn't have to break anything to make it work.
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