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Somebody yellow stole my site

Author
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-12-29 03:55:20 UTC
I was doing an Angel Watch site and on the commander wave (the guy who drops the key) and a guy who was yellow in a Cormorant warped in.

Unfortunately, I was pretty far away from the wave (100km) since I had been kiting when they spawned and he had drones.

I was in a heavily geared Tengu but only with 3 usable Heavy launchers loaded with Nova Fury. I have max skills across the board.

Since he was yellow I considered trying to attack him. The only problem is that I would have to use my AB and since the Angels were between me and the Cormorant I would aggro all of them, so I would have had to tank them while trying to kill the Cormorant.

Also, I was afraid he might have friends and if I attacked him, they would join in (can they do that without getting Concordokken?).

What was my best move in that situation?

In the end what happened is that I put my AB on and tried to close with the commander and kill it first, but his drones beat me to it, so I gave up.
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#2 - 2015-12-29 04:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
You can shoot a yellow flashy person (suspect flagged) without any response from concord and he will be able to shoot back. If his friends assist him with remote repairs etc. they will also go suspect and be a legal target for you. Other ships will not be able to shoot you without provoking concord.

However, 99% of the time a suspect person stealing loot from sites really just wants to be shot at and they probably have a plan to beat you (whether it's being so small that you can't really harm them, switching ships once they are allowed to shoot you back, friends with remote reps, etc.) They are probably also banking on the fact that you are likely to be PVE fit (no warp disruption) which gives them complete control because they can prevent you from warping, but leave field themselves whenever they want.

A tengu with only 3 launchers is fit incorrectly. I rarely call a fit wrong. Your fit is wrong. I highly suggest you dock that up and do some reading before you undock it again.

To answer your question, you probably did the right thing. If you are not fit to fight other players, you should not fight other players. If you want to fight other players, do some research and fit for it specifically. It is possible to fly PVP fits that can also run sites.

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Titan's Lament

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2015-12-29 04:24:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Droidster wrote:
I was doing an Angel Watch site and on the commander wave (the guy who drops the key) and a guy who was yellow in a Cormorant warped in.

Was he "flashy" yellow or "solid" yellow?

The difference is big.

You can attack "flashy" yellow people as they are considered either "outlaws" (people with -5.0 or lower security status) or have "suspect status" (they have stolen from someone's jetcan / wreck).

"Solid" yellow simply means that a person has committed hostile acts (see: shot at) against another player "illegally" but are not yet considered "outlaws" (see: they have -0.1 to -4.9 security status).

Droidster wrote:
Since he was yellow I considered trying to attack him. The only problem is that

... (snip)...

I was afraid he might have friends and if I attacked him, they would join in (can they do that without getting Concordokken?).

Assuming the person you considered attacking was a "legal target"...

his friends would not have been able to attack you.
They could assist by providing remote repair support (which would turn them "suspect status" as well), but would not be able to do much else unless you shot at them as well.


Droidster wrote:
What was my best move in that situation?

So... here is the "bottom line" as far as I can tell:

The person you encountered was probably looking for a fight. He was "baiting" you into shooting him so he could legally engage.
And chances are, he had probably fit that Cormorant to specifically kill your ship.

Your best course of action was to simply not take the bait. And you did well in not doing so.

In the future...
- If you are paranoid of accidentally shooting someone, set you "safety button" (next to your capacitor HUD) to "green." This will prevent you from taking an offensive action against another player.

- Right-click a wreck > Abandon all
This tells the other person that you are not going to "take the bait" (see: shoot him). It also removes the temptation of shooting the intruder (provided the person has not already looted one of your wrecks).

- Just leave and come back later.

- Move someplace more quiet.

- Or, if you are ballsy, bring some friends in PvP capable ships and nuke the offender.



I should also point out that EVE does not "instance" sites or missions like other games. You do not "own" anything (even if you were given the specific coordinates and/or a mission objective for it) until it is in your cargohold.
Every place in EVE can be found and interfered with by another player. It is a part of the competitive nature game.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-12-29 04:31:02 UTC
He was not flashy yellow, just solid yellow.

I had six launchers, its just that 3 of them were heavy assault and I accidentally ran out of ammo for those. The other 3 were heavys with Nova Fury. I also had a target painter.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-12-29 04:41:37 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

And chances are, he had probably fit that Cormorant to specifically kill your ship.



Can a Cormorant kill a loaded Tengu (even if the Tengu only has 3 heavy launchers)?
Thierry Orlenard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-12-29 05:05:45 UTC
Droidster wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

And chances are, he had probably fit that Cormorant to specifically kill your ship.



Can a Cormorant kill a loaded Tengu (even if the Tengu only has 3 heavy launchers)?


You were running out of missiles -- correct?
And your Tengu was PvE fit with no point or scram on it -- correct?

Assuming these two things were true, yes, that Cormorant could have taken you out.
Netan MalDoran
Hyperion Mining Incorporated
#7 - 2015-12-29 05:06:54 UTC
Droidster wrote:
I was doing an Angel Watch site and on the commander wave (the guy who drops the key) and a guy who was yellow in a Cormorant warped in.

In the end what happened is that I put my AB on and tried to close with the commander and kill it first, but his drones beat me to it, so I gave up.


1: You couldve prolly alphaed him....
2: What was his ACTUAL ship, Cormorants dont have drones.......

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#8 - 2015-12-29 05:20:30 UTC
Comorant with help?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2015-12-29 05:24:42 UTC
Droidster wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

And chances are, he had probably fit that Cormorant to specifically kill your ship.



Can a Cormorant kill a loaded Tengu (even if the Tengu only has 3 heavy launchers)?

Stranger things have happened. BlinkTwisted

Iteron V (industrial) kills a Megathron (battleship)

Frigates kill a battleship (demo)

There is even a reported case of a Velator (rookie ship) killing a Tornado (battlecruiser). Lol
Cellini Benvenuto
Ephemeral Syzygy
#10 - 2015-12-29 09:27:19 UTC
Droidster wrote:
He was not flashy yellow, just solid yellow.

I had six launchers, its just that 3 of them were heavy assault and I accidentally ran out of ammo for those. The other 3 were heavys with Nova Fury. I also had a target painter.


From my experience in PvE - it is always better to have the same offensive system instead of going half-half. A ship trying to do too many things usually ends up not excelling in anything.

PS: I know all you vets think about PvP! But sometimes, when two PvE runners are in the same site, they are usually just trying to get to the loot first! A look at D-scan, another at person's employment history/corps/killboard/sec-status are usually enough to see what his ideas are.

Also, in low end sites, especially in high-sec, the best bet is to just gun at the faction-ship, tank the room, kill the faction ship, rush to the loot. I've never worked Angels, but a Sansha watch can be done in 2 minutes in a Gila/Strat and then, if you so wish, you can have fun with the rest of the pirates.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-12-29 13:39:07 UTC
The amount and type of questions that you are asking indicate to me that you have very little if not zero PvP experience in this game. I do not either so I am not criticizing but my personal theory is that if you set out to PvE only then you only PvE. If you want to PvP get in a ship set up for PvP and go do that.

I just think that in an expensive ship like a Tengu that is completely set up for PvE that you have nothing to gain and everything to loose. If you would like to PvE and engage in PvP if it becomes available then you would need to be set up for that. Do things like Omni tank and have the ability to point your opponent.

It would seem to me that with regards to PvP most players do not want to loose and aim to win. If a player is in high sec and has a suspect flag and is in a site with me I assume he wants to engage in PvP with me because if he did not then he would have docked or safed up and waited out his timer. So if he is looking to PvP with me then I further assume that he thinks that he can win the engagement. So either he knows that his ship can beat mine or he plans to reship once he gets me to flag myself or he has friends near by or something like that.

TL;dr
If you set out to PvE then PvE and only PvE. If you want to PvP then set out to do that. While setting out to PvP and then winding up PvEing is typically not a terrible idea setting out to PvE and then winding up PvPing typically is.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Memphis Baas
#12 - 2015-12-29 13:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Even if he was flashy yellow (valid target), if you don't have tackle (warp disruptor) on your ship, the other person is free to leave as soon as you shoot, and return in a bigger ship.

If you really want to "protect" "your" loot, you need to fit your ship with the necessary PVP modules (warp disruptor or scrambler, MWD to quickly approach and/or maintain range, possibly webifier to keep the other guy slow and easy to kill), and then be able to do serious dps (typically requires T2 weapons with T2 ammo).

What you should do is add this person to your contacts list (search People and Places for their name, and Add Contact), then give them negative standings. That way every time they log on, you'll get a warning, and every time they are in the same solar system as you, their name will get highlighted in the Local pilots list.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#13 - 2015-12-29 16:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
1) It's not your site
2) the one who ends up with the loot is obviously the rightful owner of the loot
3) if you have to kite while doing a Watch site in a Tengu then you're doing it wrong. Being overtanked, which is easily done in a Tengu, allows you to not have to kite at all and go straight for the target
4) why do you only have 3 launchers?

Your best move is to use a fit that can tank the room so you can get/stay close to the main target and then, if necessary, drop a MTU to pick it up. That way you will have less trouble with competition.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#14 - 2015-12-29 16:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Gregor Parud wrote:
1) It's not your site
2) the one who ends up with the loot is obviously the rightful owner of the loot
3) if you have to kite while doing a Watch site in a Tengu then you're doing it wrong. Being overtanked, which is easily done in a Tengu, allows you to not have to kite at all and go straight for the target
4) why do you only have 3 launchers?

Your best move is to use a fit that can tank the room so you can get/stay close to the main target and then, if necessary, drop a MTU to pick it up. That way you will have less trouble with competition.

1 - agree
2 - agree
3 - there are many different styles to running sites just as there are missions.
4 - you do not read so well do you. He had six(6) launchers he only had ammo for 3 of them.
Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2015-12-29 16:48:54 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
3 - there are many different styles to running sites just as there are missions.
Right, and the way he is doing it leaves him very vulnerable to "thieves". Whereas the method Gregor recommended leaves him much less vulnerable.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#16 - 2015-12-29 20:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Droidster wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

And chances are, he had probably fit that Cormorant to specifically kill your ship.



Can a Cormorant kill a loaded Tengu (even if the Tengu only has 3 heavy launchers)?

I killed a 1 billion isk hamgu running sites before in a frigate.
Granted I had a habit of felling game like that in frigates so I'd say yes he could have if he was damn good.

I think though the cormerant was bait (assuming you're remembering correctly) ,
whereby he would reship into something a little better suited as t1 destroyers are very very squishy,
And would have left him almost no margin for error whatsoever had you fired upon him.

Best solution for flippers is always fit for PvP (yeah yeah , whatever I do it and it's fine).
Or ignore them completely.
Donnachadh wrote:

4 - you do not read so well do you. He had six(6) launchers he only had ammo for 3 of them.

Yes, the heavy assault missiles, he still had ammunition for the three heavy missiles.

Kindly remove the foot from your mouth before responding. my apologies, I caught manflu and got snarky.

Op, don't split weapon systems, it's bad idea and people will laugh at you when they see it.
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-12-30 00:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
I skimmed over the thread and I see some big big errors (some you luckily didn't make):

A. NEVER EVER engage in a PvP fight, if you are not fitted for PvP. That person was for 99.9999% hoping you would engage, and he would have won. Simply because he was ready for PvP and you weren't. No matter WHAT ship you fly, how expensive your mods were etc. a PvE fit will almost certainly lose to someone who is PvP fitted and has a plan thought out.

B. NEVER EVER mix launcher. Sorry, but HOW can you be a fully trained tengu pilot and make the dumbest and most rookie mistake of mixing 2 totally different types of launchers.

That alone tells me, GO back to a frigate and learn how fitting a ship works properly. And THEN come back


Let me help you with a quick random equation

Weapon A: 500 damage each, short range (aka HAM)
Weapon B: 300 damage each, long range (aka HM)

Now:

Using an all 6 of weapon A - 3000 damage till end of range of A.
Using an all 6 of weapon B - 1800 damage till end of range of B.

Now let's do a 3/3 setup:

Within range of A: 2400 damage (3 x 500 = 1500 + 3 x 300 = 900)
Out of range of A: 900 damage

So, see:

If you are fighting within the range of A, having all weapon A fitted does 600 damage a shot more.
If you are fighting outside of A but within B, you will by fitting all type B weapons do twice the amount of damage.

Ergo, always fit 1 type of weapon that matches your tactic OR fit 1 type of weapon, and adjust your tactics to it's advantages.

There is NO reason ever to mix your guns.

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J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-12-30 00:20:46 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
1) It's not your site
2) the one who ends up with the loot is obviously the rightful owner of the loot
3) if you have to kite while doing a Watch site in a Tengu then you're doing it wrong. Being overtanked, which is easily done in a Tengu, allows you to not have to kite at all and go straight for the target
4) why do you only have 3 launchers?

Your best move is to use a fit that can tank the room so you can get/stay close to the main target and then, if necessary, drop a MTU to pick it up. That way you will have less trouble with competition.


1. Agreed. NOTHING in EVE is owned in terms of space. Your missionpocket or what so ever is free for others to enter.
2. Agreed.
3. Yep. Got me wondering why a "maxed trained across the board" tengu pilot had to resort to such long range kiting.
4. He didn't. He had 3 HAM and 3 HM launchers, the most basic rookie mistake. Mixing guns is a big No-No.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club