These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Surviving in Nullsec

Author
Paris Dupairat
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-12-28 02:15:51 UTC
Hello all, I'm an on/off again player to Eve who only sort of knows what he is doing in Nullsec space. After a cursory search of the forums and not finding what I needed, I thought I might as well post my own thread here. Not only to help myself, but also any other Eve players who find themselves asking the same questions listed here.

To paraphrase my experience so far, I like exploration in Eve and have progressed far enough to fly covert ops ships. I started with the low tier sites in High sec and naturally fanned out into the lower security systems to the higher yield sites as I gained more confidence. I've gotten smarter as some of my Herons and Buzzards have been blown up by either opposing explorers or gate camps, and have learned to avoid them for the most part. Recently though I've been having trouble with this new frontier: Nullsec.

I've gotten adept even here, and learned to use bookmarks and make jump gate "safe spots" to stop and directionally scan for interceptors and warp disrupting structures to avoid being snared when I warp to a gate. I've also made an overview setting specifically to know when to cloak when I'm at site. Using these methods I can survive for a while, but almost never to where I can bring my haul all the way back to high sec and sell the salvage I collect. So I guess my questions relate specifically to how I can be more efficient and survive better in nullsec.

I know I've rambled on, so ill just get to the questions:

-Is there a way I can automate the directional scanner to automatically update when something new enters the scanning radius? If I'm at a site for example, I really hate having to juggle the both theunlock mini-games and directional scanner.I would like the scanner to update itself when a ship enters the radius so i can quickly cloak and warp away.

-If I'm in a system that i have not been to (and have not made any safety bookmarks) and need to warp to a gate that is too far away (more than 15AU) and cannot scan even from a nearby orbital body, what would be the best course of action other than avoiding it? or is there no other option? Because chancing it has not worked out in the past.

-I'm a little bit hazy on how jump gates work, but when i warp through one I'm not completely invisible right? I'm still on everyones overview and can technically be locked on and just not fired at? I've warped through jumpgates before only to be met with interdiction spheres from Sabers/ect and promptly destroyed. So if i were to warp into a situation like that, am i just screwed or how should i react? Does having/ not having a microwarpdrive module on a covert ops vessel make that much of a difference? ( i often use one despite the signature radius penalty)

-Progression-wise, would i be able to do better in a Strategic Cruiser? And is the penalty still in place where if you lose one you also lose a specific amount of skill points?

-Any tips to give in general?

Thanks in advance to anyone who made the effort to read this and respond, its really appreciated.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2015-12-28 02:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Paris Dupairat wrote:
-Is there a way I can automate the directional scanner to automatically update when something new enters the scanning radius?

No. It has to be updated manually.

Paris Dupairat wrote:
-If I'm in a system that i have not been to (and have not made any safety bookmarks) and need to warp to a gate that is too far away (more than 15AU) and cannot scan even from a nearby orbital body, what would be the best course of action other than avoiding it? or is there no other option? Because chancing it has not worked out in the past.

Warp to a planet that is close by. You can run a D-Scan from there.

If this isn't an option, the best course of action is to find a planet or celestial that is perpendicular to your destination (relative to the course you would take directly).

More often than not, people will set up special gatecamps that work only on the condition of you directly warping from a specific direction (see: "drag bubbles")

Paris Dupairat wrote:
-I'm a little bit hazy on how jump gates work, but when i warp through one I'm not completely invisible right? I'm still on everyones overview and can technically be locked on and just not fired at? I've warped through jumpgates before only to be met with interdiction spheres from Sabers/ect and promptly destroyed. So if i were to warp into a situation like that, am i just screwed or how should i react? Does having/ not having a microwarpdrive module on a covert ops vessel make that much of a difference? ( i often use one despite the signature radius penalty)

Okay so... here is how jump through stargates work.

- You jump through
- People on the other side of the stargate will see a gate activation. Unless they have "eyes" on the other side, they do not know what has just jumped into them.

- Once you are through, you ship will be cloaked. Completely cloaked. Aside from your name appearing in local chat, no one can see you, target lock you, de-cloak you, or affect you in any way (not even smartbombs can touch you).
- This "gate cloak" will last for 60 seconds or until you perform some kind of action (move or activate a module)... whichever comes first.

When dealing with gatecamps that you do not think you can get past, the best course of action is usually to burn back to the stargate ASAP (this is where a Microwarpdrive comes in handy), jump back through, and warp off to something (anything) before anyone can follow you through.
This can be a little tricky though.... especially when you have hostiles buzzing less than 10km around your cloaked position. You want to make sure that you can gain enough momentum to burn back to gate before anyone applies a Stasis Webifier or Warp Scrambler.


Paris Dupairat wrote:
-Progression-wise, would i be able to do better in a Strategic Cruiser? And is the penalty still in place where if you lose one you also lose a specific amount of skill points?

There is no clear cut progression. I have seen people use Interceptors to great effect when exploring and probing things.

And yes... Tech 3 cruisers still lose skillpoints when you die in one.
NOTE: you only lose skillpoints in one Tech 3 subsystem skill and generally it is only one level... which is about 1 week if you have them all trained to level 5, or 2 days if they are all only trained to level 4.

Paris Dupairat wrote:
-Any tips to give in general?

Learn how to PvP. Even if it isn't your cup of tea, the skills you gain from doing it drastically increase your own rate of survival (because what better way to avoid getting hunted than to learn how hunters hunt?).
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#3 - 2015-12-28 04:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Paris Dupairat wrote:


-Is there a way I can automate the directional scanner to automatically update when something new enters the scanning radius? If I'm at a site for example, I really hate having to juggle the both theunlock mini-games and directional scanner.I would like the scanner to update itself when a ship enters the radius so i can quickly cloak and warp away.


No. BUT, now you can hotkey it. If you gave a mmo mouse, (with all the extra buttons) you can keymap one of those keys, and the go to escape menu and set up a shortcut for the d-scanner. I have it set as my thumb button. So it is now trivial to scan periodically as opposed to the mouse dance.

I set my second thumb button to probe scan.

Quote:


-If I'm in a system that i have not been to (and have not made any safety bookmarks) and need to warp to a gate that is too far away (more than 15AU) and cannot scan even from a nearby orbital body, what would be the best course of action other than avoiding it? or is there no other option? Because chancing it has not worked out in the past.


Long Version.

I just moved to stain recently. Guess what I've been doing? Bookmarkes, hundreds of them. Not only in stain, but the pipe leading back to HS.

First, Bookmarks aren't made when you click add bookmark in People and Places. It is only created when you click ok, so having the bookmark open and timing clicking ok is key.

New system. You want to make ss bookmarks that are not in-line between any celestial objects. So first pick the two objects that are furthest away, or at the most obtuse angle. If people are present I try to warp to celestials that are stacked, several belts for example in a stack. That way if someone is cloaked watching you, he can't tell which one you warped to and will have to guess. Warp between them and try to put a ss in the middle ctrl-b, or if the middle would just make your ss lineup with other celestials from the perspective of any gate, make it further up or down the line. This is your starter ss that you'll delete. warp to new ss.

Our goal right now with these ss is not only to make a good selection of ss, and not only to make a good number of tactical gate scan points. We are also trying to make approach vectors that will circumvent any bubble interaction.

I do all this with my d-scan and d-scan map open. I use the dscan graphic to tell if I'm in range or not, It really helps when trying to place SS at specific locations.

Now pick a celestial. Use the dscan map to make sure the line from that celestial through your position does not go anywhere near any other celestials. If the vector between your current ss and a celestias passes near no other celestials, warp to 100, again chose belts over gates. Try to drop a ss anywhere inside of 14au. Immediately Warp back to new ss and make sure it is within 14au. Sometimes BMs drop behind where I told them too so they end up further away. Try to stay further out rather than close in, that way you might be able to use this ss as a vector for another celestial. Repeat until you have all gates, or at least the ones you expect to use covered. When done, make one last bookmark by picking a likely SS and warping towards your original ss. Drop a new ss midway and this bm is off vector for all celestials. Delete the original ss.

Short version.
If you're just trying to get through a gate camp not interested in making a full set of BMs. Then look for a couple of celestials that you can warp between to make a approach vector that doesn't line up with the gate. Drop ss warp to ss. use dscan map to verify that you don't line up with any celestial. Now assuming that there is a lone gate with no nearby celestials, warp to gate at 100. Drop a BM for next time within 14au. If you run into a hic bubble, at least you have the tactical scan bm for next time. But since you are off vector, the likelyhood of this happening is extremely low. Verify new tactical is correct distance. If there is a bubble camp, leave come back later. But usually what I see are a bunch of bubbles set on vectors between gates. If they have more bubbles they will have them on vector with planets or even the green sites since people use them instead of belts for a quick ss.

Really short version.
Best SS are SS that are made warping between SS. SS made warping between celestials are trash, or best thought of as temporary.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#4 - 2015-12-28 04:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
A slow winded but safe way to approach isolated gates is to reduce your capacitor before warping so that you can't complete the full warp in one go. Warp -> Cancel -> Warp (repeat until cap is down to 10% or so). Repeat until within scan range.

Also as Shah suggested, approaching from an unlikely angle might miss the bubble/decloaking efforts of the campers. Using other celestial a or creating your own safe out of line from all celestials is a great technique to learn.

T3s are great but expensive, you might be best sticking to your cov ops for now (at least til your more aware of null mechanics/techniques)

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Paris Dupairat
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-12-28 05:28:47 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:

Short version.
If you're just trying to get through a gate camp not interested in making a full set of BMs. Then look for a couple of celestials that you can warp between to make a approach vector that doesn't line up with the gate. Drop ss warp to ss. use dscan map to verify that you don't line up with any celestial. Now assuming that there is a lone gate with no nearby celestials, warp to gate at 100. Drop a BM for next time within 14au. If you run into a hic bubble, at least you have the tactical scan bm for next time. But since you are off vector, the likelyhood of this happening is extremely low. Verify new tactical is correct distance. If there is a bubble camp, leave come back later. But usually what I see are a bunch of bubbles set on vectors between gates. If they have more bubbles they will have them on vector with planets or even the green sites since people use them instead of belts for a quick ss.

Really short version.
Best SS are SS that are made warping between SS. SS made warping between celestials are trash, or best thought of as temporary


I hadn't realized that my placement of safety bookmarks had been so predictable. Now that I think more about it though, I can definitely see how opportunistic players can easily counteract my strategy by just placing warp disruption spheres in just those general vectors of space facing both planets and gates. I'll have to think about my placement from now on, and revise those already made haha.

Its disappointing to hear I can't automate the scanner, but ill definitely take advantage of assigning it to a hotkey.



Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#6 - 2015-12-28 05:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Paris Dupairat wrote:


I hadn't realized that my placement of safety bookmarks had been so predictable. Now that I think more about it though, I can definitely see how opportunistic players can easily counteract my strategy by just placing warp disruption spheres in just those general vectors of space facing both planets and gates. I'll have to think about my placement from now on, and revise those already made haha.




This is why you never warp gate-to-gate in null. Even if the system is empty there are often abandoned bubbles on gate-to-gate vectors. So once you have a ss in system, always warp to the ss on entering system.

Also, an empty system isn't necessarily empty. Someone might do a logoffski by that bubble. Friend or alt notifies them you are coming. They logoffski. You enter empty system, think you are safe and warp to a gate directly. They log in just as you run into the bubble, and give you a warm hello.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-12-28 07:04:03 UTC
Some additional tips ...

... using gates to exfiltrate loot is always a bad idea, use wormholes

... define a default color for all player ships, so you see them clearly the moment arriving on grid or decloaking

... keep range 2500m from the cans, so you can cloak immediately

... while hacking, mark a warp out spot in your overview, so warp is just one click

... fit your ship for fast align time, MWD, some tank, this gives you better survival chance in camps/sites

... always stay and warp cloaked, when not hacking

As already mentioned above, an interceptor (insta-warp, bubble immune) is a nice and cheap exploration tool, if you have max hacking and probing skills.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Cherri Minoa
IronPig
Sev3rance
#8 - 2015-12-28 12:20:40 UTC
Paris Dupairat wrote:

-If I'm in a system that i have not been to (and have not made any safety bookmarks) and need to warp to a gate that is too far away (more than 15AU) and cannot scan even from a nearby orbital body, what would be the best course of action other than avoiding it? or is there no other option? Because chancing it has not worked out in the past.


The best idea is to make tactical bookmarks for every gate that you will or might visit in advance. You will want an interceptor a bit like this Ares:
4 x inertial stabiliser in the lows
1 x MWD mid
1 x cloak in the high
Anything else optional

Although nothing in EVE is certain, these are effectively impossible to catch. This is one occasion when you can warp direct to a gate at zero, because nothing can catch you as you land and jump through, and nothing can prevent you warping away the other side.

Go through your intended area of null-sec and make at least one BM for every gate. Make sure they are offset from any other celestial object. make them all slightly different angles from the gate, make them all a different distance. Never share them, never warp to them at zero.

Once you have that basic framework in place you can expand and refine it.

"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson

Memphis Baas
#9 - 2015-12-28 14:23:00 UTC
Paris Dupairat wrote:

-I'm a little bit hazy on how jump gates work, but when i warp through one I'm not completely invisible right? I'm still on everyones overview and can technically be locked on and just not fired at?


Not only will gate campers know what ship you have, but also what possible actions you can take, and they'll be prepared for you and all your possible evasion options. Basically:

1. You arrive cloaked at the gate on the other side, but have to decloak to jump, and they'll likely have cloaked scouts observing the gate. The scout will report your ship and that you're incoming.

2. Even if they don't have a scout, your name is listed in the local channel list, and they can search the public killboards to see what ships you prefer to fly.

3. As Shah said, after you jump through the gate, you'll have gate-cloak invulnerability. However, that will drop as soon as you move, and there's a 1 second period where you're visible, until you activate your cov-ops cloak. Regardless of how instantaneously fast it appears to you, because of server lag you're basically visible for about 1 second.

An interceptor with MWD can ctrl-triple-click you (takes less than 1 second), and this will set them moving towards your position and also start a target lock. If they target you, you can't cloak. If you manage to cloak before they target you, they're still moving at interceptor MWD speed towards your position, and will decloak you by proximity, unless you manage to move away more than 2.5 km. This is where you can try activating your own MWD before activating your cloak, to build enough speed before the cloak slows you down, to move away from the spot where you were visible.

If you manage to do it, then the interceptor will start spiraling around to try to find you, and you'll of course try to move to the edge of the bubble so you can warp off. Don't be obvious about it.

4. Smartbombs are an issue, because your cov-ops cloak is just invisibility, and smartbombs will still kill you if you're in range of any.

5. People can add you to their contacts list and give you a negative standing. This will display pop-up warnings when you log on, when you're online, and when you log off. So even if nobody is in the solar system, the defenders know that you're on, and active. This is why cov-ops explorers like to afk for long periods of time, to desensitize the defenders to their presence.

6. People can also use locator agents on you, and thus find out which solar system you're in, within a few minutes of asking.

For getting your loot out, honestly, the best option is to try to make a deal with the locals. I imagine most places are firmly NBSI (shoot everyone), but it doesn't hurt to try, really. They may appreciate the fact that you're exploring, and aren't there to prey on their PVE crews, but of course revealing what you're doing is a danger to you. Otherwise, as indicated above, rather than trying to navigate pipelines that are camped 24/7, try to probe a way through the wormhole system back to high-sec.

Wormholes pose their own dangers, but the fact that you don't appear in the local channel is a big plus.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-12-28 14:42:35 UTC
Paris Dupairat wrote:
have progressed far enough to fly covert ops ships.

This might just be me and I could possibly just have a chip on my shoulder about this but any reference to progression in Eve makes me feel like I need to correct it. I've been playing this game since 2009 and have well over 100 million skill points and still mostly fly T1 ships.

I understand that the covert ops cloak is a bit of a game changer but progression implies linear travel along a path towards a destination or end point. Eve is a sandbox. Other MMOs are progression MMOs and Eve is very much different from those and IMHO it's in all the right ways.

This may sound like I am harping on you just to correct you to make you wrong but for me letting go of the progression mentality was one of the things that held me back most early on in my Eve time and I feel one of the best ways that I can help newer players is to point that out to them.

Now on to your original null sec question. Obviously wormhole null is very different from K space null. I will speak here only of K space null as UK space ( unknown space ) is an explorers haven.

First off not automating the D scan function is an intentional design. In dangerous space you are expected to stay vigilant and an automated system that would essentially warn you when someone was trying to find you would defeat the whole point of you needing to maintain situational awareness.

One thing that you need to understand is that residents of null will always have the advantage over you. They know the space. The know all the near by systems and what they connect to and where the main choke points are etc... Local residents also will have intel channels so that the entire Alliance knows where you are and where you have been the moment that you are spotted in local. Being familiar with the local space and having tactical BMs set up and an intel channel is a benefit so huge that it is difficult to overcome for a solo player.

Paris Dupairat wrote:

-If I'm in a system that i have not been to (and have not made any safety bookmarks) and need to warp to a gate that is too far away (more than 15AU) and cannot scan even from a nearby orbital body, what would be the best course of action other than avoiding it? or is there no other option? Because chancing it has not worked out in the past.

When you initiate warp it uses capacitor. You can initiate warp and cancel it then initiate warp and cancel it to use up capacitor until you no longer have enough cap to warp the full distance. Then once you enter the warp to a part way stop over you can then hit control + space bar to stop yourself from automatically entering the second part of that warp. I know a few years ago they reduced how much cap it takes to initiate warp but I think it still works it just might take more tries.

Another option is trying to drop a mid warp book mark from two warpable points who's connecting line comes within 14 AU of the target gate.

As far as jump gates Jester explained how to decloak a cloaked ship at a gate. It helps to understand the other side of the coin.
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/02/guide-basic-decloaking.html

Also reading up on how to effectively gate camp can help you learn how to get through one. So read up on gate camping. Again I'll link an old Jester's Trek but you can search for more.
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/02/guide-gate-camp-basics.html

Paris Dupairat wrote:

-Progression-wise, would i be able to do better in a Strategic Cruiser? And is the penalty still in place where if you lose one you also lose a specific amount of skill points?

Again I will advise you to think of different tech in a manner of a more expensive choice rather than something inherently better. Every ship in Eve has it's use and you don't progress on to the next level abandoning the previous. It might even be that part of your problem is taking expensive ships where you should be taking cheaper throw-a-way ships.

But yes the skill point loss mechanics are still in place for T3 cruisers. You can avoid the loss by ejecting before the ship blows up.

In general as far as exploration in null sec you are probably better off only going into null to explore in areas where you find a wormhole leading there and then only exploring near by that wormhole and using it to get your stuff back to empire. Another option is scouting ahead in a cheaper ship.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Memphis Baas
#11 - 2015-12-28 15:08:25 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
This might just be me and I could possibly just have a chip on my shoulder about this but any reference to progression in Eve makes me feel like I need to correct it.


Anything is progress... Figuring out how to dock at a station when you first log in as a newbie is progress. Let the guy feel proud of his accomplishments.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-12-28 15:52:12 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
This might just be me and I could possibly just have a chip on my shoulder about this but any reference to progression in Eve makes me feel like I need to correct it.


Anything is progress... Figuring out how to dock at a station when you first log in as a newbie is progress. Let the guy feel proud of his accomplishments.

Progress towards a goal that you set for yourself is one thing. I do not see setting goals for one's self to be counter productive in this game, I'm sure that is fine.

However "progression" as opposed to "progress" and especially within the context of MMO gaming carries a lot of baggage with it. "Progression" to me seems to carry an implication of some type of inherent or generally accepted "end game" which if you are searching for an end game in a sandbox you will likely get lost along the way.

I googled two words:

play =
1.
engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.

job =
2.
a task or piece of work, especially one that is paid.

"Playing around" with something is one of the purest means of conducting science experimentation and also probably the purest form of learning. We often yell at children when they are playing around with things when all they are doing is following a human instinctual desire to learn about our environment through the process of trial and error or better said just playing around with stuff to see how it works.

I think that play is one of the most valuable things in all of human experience. In today's world there is far too much training and goal oriented self programming ( meaning reading or other forms of information intake that do not involve personal experience ).

I feel that there is possibly no better advice that I can give anyone in this game than to play around with stuff and experiment while managing risk levels to maximize learning in general and not so much worry about any inherent goals or end points.

I think too often players leave other games because they become too much of a job and then come here and try to turn this game into a job because it's what they are familiar with. I would just like to remind people that this is a game and games are supposed to be fun and fun and play typically go hand in hand.

I could claim that I am playing at my job when I go to work but if I am being given a task and compensated upon it's completion then that is a job.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli