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[December] Tech Two Logistics Frigates

First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-11-26 22:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Logibro
Hey folks. We're ready to gather feedback on our plan for a new set of Tech Two Logistics Frigates scheduled for release in Operation Frostline on December 8th.

These ships are designed to release alongside the big set of remote rep changes in the same release.

These ships use a new skill: Logistics Frigates
  • 4x Multiplier, Will/Per
  • Requires Spaceship Command 3, Signature Analysis V, Long Range Targeting 4
The skill formerly known as "Logistics" is now called "Logistics Cruisers"

Deacon
Amarr Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer activation cost
Logistics Frigates Bonus per level:
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer duration and activation cost
7.5% bonus to all armor hitpoints
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal range
600% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer falloff

Slot layout: 3H, 2M, 5L; 2 turrets
Fittings: 57 PWG, 145 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 550 / 400
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 55 / 75
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 43.5 / 60
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 675 / 337.5s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 405 / 3.5 / 1,630,000 / 7.91s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 920 / 8
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 34
Cargo Hold: 250m3


Kirin
Caldari Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount
10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost
Logistics Frigates Bonus per level:
5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost
7.5% bonus to all shield hitpoints
Role Bonus:
300% bonus to Remote Shield Booster falloff

Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 42 PWG, 215 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 550 / 300 / 375
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 55 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 72.5 / 43.5 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 615 / 307.5s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 370 / 3.95 / 1,480,000 / 8.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 870 / 8
Sensor strength: 16
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Hold: 270m3


Thalia
Gallente Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
10% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer activation cost
Logistics Frigates Bonus per level:
5% reduction in Remote Armor Repairer duration and activation cost
4% reduction in signature radius
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal range
600% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer falloff

Slot layout: 3H, 3M, 4L; 2 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 155 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 450 / 425
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40 / 70 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 51.25 / 67.5 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 595 / 297.5s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 410 / 3.7 / 1,450,000 / 7.44s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 43km / 890 / 8
Sensor strength: 14
Signature radius: 36
Cargo Hold: 280m3

Scalpel
Minmatar Frigate Bonus per level:
10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster amount
10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster activation cost
Logistics Frigates Bonus per level:
5% reduction in Remote Shield Booster duration and activation cost
4% reduction in signature radius
Role Bonus:
300% bonus to Remote Shield Booster falloff

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 42 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450 / 300 / 350
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 40 / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 80 / 51.25 / 25 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 560 / 280s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 415 / 3.85 / 1,420,000 / 7.58s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 940 / 8
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33
Cargo Hold: 260m3

Let us know what you think!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2015-11-26 22:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Update November 29th:
We've increased the base signature radius of these ships to be the same as their T1 counterparts.
We've also made some tweaks to the strength of their tanking bonuses. The +HP bonuses on the Deacon and Kirin have been increased to 7.5% per level and the signature radius bonuses on the Thalia and Scalpel have been decreased to 4% per level.

Update December 1st:
The Thalia had a bit too much PWG, we've reduced it back down to 55.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2015-11-26 22:50:59 UTC
redesign bantam navitas and burst models pls
Rowells
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#4 - 2015-11-26 22:53:01 UTC
Those speeds seem really weird.

415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#5 - 2015-11-26 23:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Rowells wrote:
Those speeds seem really weird.

415-405 for three and then a drop to 370 for caldari?


yes that is a big disparity especially when you add the sig bloom from extenders, i would suggest bring the other 3 down under 400

good too see them getting only partial T2 resists, the T2 logi cruisers need theres toned down, the assault line should have the best resists.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Liam Inkuras
Pod Liberation Authority
Kingless.
#6 - 2015-11-26 23:28:34 UTC
Nice

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#7 - 2015-11-26 23:33:47 UTC
Do pilots with Logistics skill already trained get grandfathered into the Logistics Frigate skill or will they train it up from zero?
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#8 - 2015-11-26 23:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor

no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2015-11-27 00:02:46 UTC
Why this are not pirate faction frigates that come from pirate LP store.
More isk sinks are good.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#10 - 2015-11-27 00:08:19 UTC
also not a fan of having sig analysis lv5 as a pre req, training skills too lv5 should be optional as much as possible

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Count Szadek
Roast Beef Sandwich
#11 - 2015-11-27 00:18:15 UTC
im honestly a little curious about the amarr and caldari with a tank bonus. as they both have 5 slots in their respective tank oriented areas. I would like to actually see a mwd cap penalty reduction there instead. i feel that will give them a better bonus to their layouts. i like the sig radius as that will really help be more close range for brawler fleets, while a mwd cap penalty reduction would help kiting / fast moving fleets more.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#12 - 2015-11-27 00:23:06 UTC
These look very nice.

Still amazed at people complaining about training useful prerequisites...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dantelion Shinoni
Excellent Aoki Citizens
#13 - 2015-11-27 00:28:50 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
so why is the amarr one completely inferior to the gallente one in every sense? except capacitor

no inquisitor pilots asked for a 5th low. they wanted a mid. the amarr navy designed a 3rd mid. not a 5th low.


Amarr is forever cursed with extra Lows, so that was expected, I'd have hoped we'd get something to compensate, but of course the Gallente one is the one getting the superior sig bonus :^)

Being Amarr or Caldari is suffering, no mids or no speed.
Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2015-11-27 00:29:17 UTC
Not a fan of the skill multiplier. Proper fitting and piloting of logistics already takes a very hefty SP investment, these should be easier and more forgiving as far as the SP barrier goes. It should be the small bump to make people want to train Logistics Cruisers to V.

While these definitely look very cool and either augment present fleet compositions or enable others, there is still the overarching issue of small things being king and big things being comparatively worthless these days. Why would anyone undock in a T1 cruiser fleet with T1 cruiser logi when they could undock in t3ds with T2 logi frigates?

This has potential to be good, but it also has the obvious potential to further exacerbate the 't3ds online' syndrome. It's very neat to have new toys, and while the BC changes overall have really helped, big things still need help. They are cumbersome dinosaurs living in a fast and competitive world, and it seems most game mechanics are against them these days.

I thoroughly enjoy frigate PvP, but EvE as a whole becomes a little less epic when that's all you can find. We are shown epic battles with huge starships, and all that's really viable to play with are space bumper cars. This just enables further going down this road, and I don't think it's a good thing unless there are more changes for big things in the works.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

big miker
NANO CONSPIRACY
#15 - 2015-11-27 00:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: big miker
Remove the signature reduction bonus. They already get a very low base signature radius.
Since low-sec is littered with links and implanted pilots the scalpel and gallente logistics frigate are able to achieve 12m signature radius. http://puu.sh/lzLDA/c8f4aba198.png

Not to mention being able to easily fit a 10mn afterburner in combination with a respectable tank.

Edit. I still find it stupid how these things and t3d's get such a ridiculously large cargohold.
Circumstantial Evidence
#16 - 2015-11-27 00:54:47 UTC
While you are renaming skills, is "Logistics" the best name for this function?

The ships provide remote shield or armor... boost/repair/help/support... what about "Remote Support," or words of this nature.

Force Auxiliary is the new name for the Capital ship class providing these functions, perhaps this could be borrowed to better describe the function.

Querns wrote:
"Auxiliary" is, really, the perfect word for this sort of ship line. Auxiliaries, in war-time, refer to noncombatants whose primary role is to tend to wounded and dead soldiers. In naval parlance, it refers to a vessel with a supporting role, which is not armed for combat. It makes a lot more sense than "logistics," which typically refers to moving goods, troops, or equipment, not healing. "Logistics" is what Jump Freighters do.
Valkin Mordirc
#17 - 2015-11-27 00:57:34 UTC
The Sig bonus is what scares me the most with this ships, I've always thought that T2 Logi Frig's would become a little OP due to the small sig bonus, specially with implants + Links.
#DeleteTheWeak
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
#18 - 2015-11-27 01:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Trinkets friend
I don't grok the design philosophy of no optimal, huge falloff bonuses.

The remote shield booster II is going to be 4.8 + 23.2km for the Kirin and Scalpel.
The remote armour repper II is going to be 8.4 + 18km for the Deacon and Thalia.

With the upcoming tiercide shunt towards slower cycle times, these bonuses to rep rate and capacitor use are obviously the only real bonus these have over the T1 logi frigs.

The sig radius is also a little on the ridiculous side. As Big Miker says, 12m sig rad for the armour, 14 for the shield (with links, no pills or plants). With 10MN fits quite doable (especially for the Deacon; what else do you do with 5 lows?) these are going to be utter cancer. Damage shedding from medium drones occurs below 125 sig rad. At 14, you'll be taking about 10 DPS from a flight of Hammerheads.

Resists and raw HP seem fine, for a micro sig. But you really do need the micro sig, because these ships are really quite thin, which is the idea I suppose. Shed 90% of the damage from your sig radius and just get alpha'ed off the field by a lucky long range pot shot.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#19 - 2015-11-27 01:38:51 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
I don't grok the design philosophy of no optimal, huge falloff bonuses.

The remote shield booster II is going to be 4.8 + 23.2km for the Kirin and Scalpel.
The remote armour repper II is going to be 8.4 + 18km for the Deacon and Thalia.


For comparison, investing in a little pimp for your Scalpel and going with pithi A-type RR, it should end up being 5.8km+37km, 195hp/cycle every 3secs, or 200hp/s roughly at 6km and 100hp/s at ~42km. In melee range, that would rep as hard as a 3 meta large scimi right now and half that much at 42km. The RR-mods were like 6mil recently.
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-11-27 01:45:59 UTC
Holy align times Batman. Sad
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