These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
32 Pages123Next pageLast page
 

[Vanguard] Combat and Navy BC Rebalance

First post First post First post
Author
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-09-11 16:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Hello everyone! By now most of you know that we've been working on a Combat Battlecruiser balance pass, and we're now ready to start getting your feedback on the planned specifics! These changes are currently scheduled for our Vanguard release on September 29th.

We're giving the class in general a significant buff, with every individual ship benefiting. The centerpiece of this pass is a new role bonus that adds damage projection to each ship. The bonus helps provide a unifying element across the entire class and helps Battlecruisers deal with opponents at a variety of ranges. The turret version of the bonus applies to both optimal and falloff, which makes it applicable for a larger variety of weapons.

The class is also getting a noticeable boost to speed and agility across the board. Some ships benefit more than others, but on average the Combat and Navy BCs will move ~8.4% faster with a propulsion module running and require ~8.2% less time to align.

The ships that are weaker and/or less popular are generally receiving bigger buffs, and the more popular ships get smaller buffs (although every ship in the class gets a net buff of some kind).

When evaluating the existing states of these ships we are using a variety of factors, including subjective feedback from experienced players, our own personal experiences flying these ships on TQ, and usage metrics.

To give you a quick snapshot of the current popularity of each ship, here's some metric snapshots from the past month:

Percentage of all T1 Combat BC jumps (gate+wormhole) by ship over the past 30 days
Drake 37.4%
Myrmidon 17.4%
Hurricane 11.7%
Prophecy 7.4%
Harbinger 7.3%
Ferox 7.3%
Brutix 7.2%
Cyclone 4.3%

Percentage of all T1 Combat BC PVP damage (from ship killmails, so does not count structure damage or ships that didn't die) by ship over the past 30 days
Drake 19.5%
Brutix 19.4%
Hurricane 14.7%
Myrmidon 13.1%
Prophecy 11.9%
Ferox 7.8%
Cyclone 7.2%
Harbinger 6.5%

Percentage of all Navy Faction Combat BC jumps (gate+wormhole) by ship over the past 30 days
Drake Navy Issue 35.9%
Hurricane Fleet Issue 23.8%
Harbinger Navy Issue 21.6%
Brutix Navy Issue 18.7%

Percentage of all Navy Faction Combat BC PVP damage (from ship killmails, so does not count structure damage or ships that didn't die) by ship over the past 30 days
Brutix Navy Issue 41.4%
Hurricane Fleet Issue 33.0%
Harbinger Navy Issue 22.8%
Drake Navy Issue 2.8%

The details of our proposed changes for your feedback can be found in the next posts.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

C C P Alliance
#2 - 2015-09-11 16:57:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Prophecy:
The Prophecy is a solid middle of the road in overall popularity, and is a flexible ship that's fairly well-regarded in the community feedback. Accodingly, it's buffs are a bit milder than those given to some of the other ships. Its version of the projection bonus is as 12.5% increase in drone microwarpdrive speed which is half of the bonus that the Algos, Dragoon and (max skilled) Vexor Navy Issue get. The significant increase in base mass alongside the big velocity and agility improvements are part of an overall trend in Amarr ships that allow them to mitigate the negative effects of fitting large armor plates (among other smaller effects).

Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Role Bonus:
12.5% bonus to Drone max velocity
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 7L, 4 turrets, 4 Launchers
Fittings: 1100 PWG, 415 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000 / 5500 / 4000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000 (+150) / 750s / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 170 (+20) / 0.57 (-0.134) / 15,300,000 (+2,400,000) / 12.09s (-0.5s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 225
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 210 / 7 (+1)
Sensor strength: 17 Radar
Signature radius: 270
Cargo capacity: 400


Harbinger:
The Harb is struggling a bit more in power level and popularity, and is therefore getting stronger than average buffs to speed and agility along with a bit more armor and some valuable capacitor. The falloff portion of the role bonus doesn't do much for lasers, but we are leaving it in because we don't see a good reason to break the consistency of the bonus across the class. The Harb is especially well placed to take advantage of the optimal portion of the role bonus with either pulses or beams.

Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage
10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 4M, 6L, 6 turrets
Fittings: 1425 PWG, 375 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000 / 5250 (+250) / 4500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3500 (+375) / 875s (+53) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 175 (+25) / 0.57 (-0.12) / 15,500,000 (+1,700,000) / 12.25s (-0.95s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+10) / 210 / 7 (+1)
Sensor strength: 17 Radar
Signature radius: 270
Cargo capacity: 375


Ferox:
The Ferox is getting a very significant change in the form of a new skill bonus and slot changes. The shield resistance bonus is being swapped for hybrid damage, and a highslot (and turret) is being traded for a mid. This leaves the Ferox with 7.5 effective turrets (compared to 7 before) and the ability to use the new midslot to either compensate for the resistance bonus or to go in a completely different direction through tracking computers, webs, or whatever else you wish. The extra range provided by the role bonus is obviously valuable for fleet fighting with rails, and the addition of falloff helps the Ferox take advantage of its range advantage with blasters as well.

Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage (Was shield resistances)
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H (-1), 6M (+1), 4L, 6 (-1) turrets
Fittings: 1250 PWG, 530 (+20) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5250 (+250) / 3500 / 4000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2900 (+150) / 725s (+1.5) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 (+10) / 0.63 (-0.03) / 13,250,000 / 11.75s (-0.55s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km (+10) / 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295
Cargo capacity: 475


Drake:
The Drake is not particularly favoured among elite pvpers these days, but remains extremely popular overall. It has benefited significantly from the Aegis missile changes, especially the Heavy Missile damage buff. The extra powergrid and mobility will prove valuable to this ship and we expect it to remain of the most commonly flown Battlecruisers in New Eden. The range bonus in this case is especially useful for fleet fits with heavy missiles. I know some players will be dissapointed that the damage bonus continues to be restricted to kinetic, but we do believe that damage specific bonuses are a useful tool for creating interesting distinctions between ships and we have no plans to phase them out.

Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Shield Resistances
10% bonus to heavy and heavy assault missile kinetic damage

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to missile velocity
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 4L, 6 Launchers
Fittings: 830 (+30) PWG, 500 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5500 (+250) / 3250 / 3750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2500 / 625s (-32.9) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 (+10) / 0.65 (+0.01) / 13,500,000 (-1,310,000) / 12.16s (-0.98s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5) / 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295
Cargo capacity: 450


Brutix:
The Brutix is receiving significant mobility buffs, taking the title of most agile T1 BC as well as gaining extra hull HP and spare drone capacity. The combined optimal and falloff bonus fits especially well with blasters, helping the Brutix apply its excellent DPS more consistently across more combat situations.

Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 4M, 6L, 6 turrets
Fittings: 1125 PWG, 435 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500 / 4500 / 5000 (+250)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3100 (+100) / 775s (-14) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 160 (+5) / 0.68 (-0.024) / 11,800,000 (-700,000) / 11.12s (-1.08s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km (+5) / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305
Cargo capacity: 475


Myrmidon:
As one of the most powerful and popular T1 BCs, the Myrm is receiving the smallest buffs in this package. The drone velocity bonus matches the Prophecy, and the mobility buffs here are a bit milder than average.

Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints

Role Bonus:
12.5% bonus to Drone max velocity
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 6L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1050 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500 / 4500 / 4750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2900 (+50) / 725s (-25) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 145 / 0.7 (-0.004) / 12,700,000 (-400,000) / 12.32s (-0.46s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 200
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305
Cargo capacity: 400


Cyclone:
The Cyclone is probably the most underestimated of the T1 BCs. It's quite powerful in the right hands, with strong defenses and solid mobility. It is receiving the same missile velocity role bonus as the Drake, and gaining an above average mobility buff to help emphasize its strengths.

Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to missile velocity
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 5L, 2 turrets, 5 Launchers
Fittings: 1100 PWG, 525 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5250 (+250) / 3750 / 3750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2900 (+50) / 725s (-25) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 180 (+15) / 0.68 (-0.024) / 12,400,000 (-100,000) / 11.69s (-0.51s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km (+5) / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 17 Ladar
Signature radius: 250
Cargo capacity: 450


Hurricane:
The Hurricane remains one of the most popular BCs, although at a more moderate usage level than it has seen during certain parts of its past.It benefited significantly from the autocannon falloff buffs earlier this year, which will be magnified by the new role bonus. Extra drone bandwidth and bay, more powergrid and significantly increased speed round out the overall package.

Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 4M, 6L, 6 turrets, 3 Launchers
Fittings: 1140 (+15) PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4500 (+250) / 4500 / 3500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2300 (+50) / 575s (-17) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 180 (+15) / 0.67 (-0.034) / 12,800,000 / 11.89s (-0.6s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40 (+10) / 40 (+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km (+10) / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Ladar
Signature radius: 250
Cargo capacity: 425

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

C C P Alliance
#3 - 2015-09-11 16:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
And now on to the Navy BCs. These ships have always been specialized towards improved damage application to small and fast targets. We are emphasizing this existing specalization through more tracking bonuses and spare drone flights, while also passing along the damage projection bonuses from their T1 counterparts.


Harbinger Navy Issue:
The Navy Harb is one of the strongest Navy BCs, taking advantage of plentiful midslots and excellent laser tracking. We're adding the projection bonus and mass benefits from the T1 Harb while also pushing its speed advantage even further.

Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage
7.5% bonus Medium Energy Turret tracking speed

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 6L, 6 turrets
Fittings: 1495 PWG, 410 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4500 / 7875 (+375) / 6750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3500 (+375) / 875s (+53) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 175 (+25) / 0.52 (-0.17) / 15,500,000 (+1,700,000) / 11.17s (-2.03s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+15) / 210 / 7 (+1)
Sensor strength: 21 Radar
Signature radius: 270
Cargo capacity: 375


Drake Navy Issue:
The Navy Drake is getting a changed skill bonus, with the previous missile velocity bonus leaving to make room for the shield resistance bonus enjoyed by the T1 Drake. Extra powergrid and drones open up a lot of new options for this ship, and it's gaining some of the biggest mobility bonuses (making it the most agile of the Navy BCs).

Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Shield Resistances (Was missile velocity)
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile explosion radius

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to missile velocity
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 4L, 8 Launchers
Fittings: 950 (+50) PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8250 (+375) / 4875 / 5625
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2500 / 625s (-32.9) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 180 (+30) / 0.53 (-0.11) / 13,500,000 (+171,000) / 9.92s (-1.91s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 (+25) / 75 (+50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+10) / 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 23 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295
Cargo capacity: 450


Brutix Navy Issue:
The already-strong Navy Brutix doesn't need as much help as many other ships in the class, but it will benefit greatly from the projection role bonus, increased hull HP and improved mobility.

Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 7H, 4M, 7L, 6 turrets
Fittings: 1235 PWG, 455 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5250 / 6750 / 7500 (+375)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3100 (+100) / 775s (-14) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 165 (+10) / 0.63 (-0.074) / 11,800,000 (-75,000) / 10.31s (-1.28s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+10) / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305
Cargo capacity: 475


Hurricane Fleet Issue:
The Fleet Cane is getting a new set of skill bonuses, the previous double damage bonus replaced with 10% damage and 10% tracking per level. With the addition of extra PG, extra drones, and extra mobility, this ship is receiving some of the most significant buffs of the whole balance pass.

Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage (Was 5%)
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed (Was projectile rate of fire)

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range and falloff
Can fit Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 6L, 6 turrets, 3 Launchers
Fittings: 1380 (+30) PWG, 420 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6750 (+375) / 6750 / 5250
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2300 (+50) / 575s (-17) / 4 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185 (+20) / 0.61 (-0.094) / 12,800,000 (+300,000) / 10.82s (-1.38s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 (+20) / 50 (+20)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+15) / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar
Signature radius: 250
Cargo capacity: 425

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

C C P Alliance
#4 - 2015-09-11 16:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Reserved for FAQ

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#5 - 2015-09-11 16:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
First!

(Obviously, I can't see the changes yet, but based on the general overview...I'm optimistic.)

EDIT: I'm excited. These seem like excellent changes that are pretty well in-line with a lot of the player feedback I've been hearing. CBCs now have their own niche (long range cruiser-caliber fire) without stepping on the toes of ABCs or cruisers. Combined with their recent warp speed buff, and I imagine you'll see a lot more use out of these puppies.

Well done!


Side note: I really like the choice of drone speed vs drone range for the drone boats. We have enough sentry platforms as is, and this will allow the CBC drone boats to apply damage at range without using sentries.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-09-11 17:08:59 UTC
I can has a Drake?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

RvB - BLUE Republic
#7 - 2015-09-11 17:10:49 UTC
return of the drakefleet... awesome
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2015-09-11 17:11:52 UTC
I'll admit I laughed when I saw the Drake Navy damage statistics. Was the worst ship in the game in my opinion. Adding that resist bonus and extra shields will help a lot.
#9 - 2015-09-11 17:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Khador Vess wrote:
return of the drakefleet... awesome

Forget Drakefleet. Welcome FeroxFleet.

EDIT: Not only FeroxFleet...but symetrically-placed turret FeroxFleet! WAHOO!

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

skill urself
#10 - 2015-09-11 17:13:00 UTC
would you consider giving the cyclone +1 launcher?

it already has an arguably worse damage bonus than the drake, and an arguably worse tank bonus than the drake (even for local tanking) and has one less mid to boot

it really doesn't need the added disadvantage of -1 launcher, when its only bonus is being faster in a class not designed for speed
Altirius Saldiaro
#11 - 2015-09-11 17:13:00 UTC
Very good changes. I look forward to these.
WE FORM V0LTA
#12 - 2015-09-11 17:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Annie Gardet
BC's rebalance looks in the good direction from what i've read in your post.

Have you considered increasing their warp speed a little bit more ?
In my opinion,warp speed is the main reason why everything bigger than a cruiser is so unpopular right now.

Are you gonna rebalance Attack Battlecruisers aswell ?
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2015-09-11 17:16:03 UTC
Destoya wrote:
I'll admit I laughed when I saw the Drake Navy damage statistics. Was the worst ship in the game in my opinion. Adding that resist bonus and extra shields will help a lot.

Not a particularly impressive PVP ship for sure. However enough players enjoy using it for PVE to make it quite popular relative to other ships in its cost range (those guys will probably be quite happy about the resists).

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2015-09-11 17:17:05 UTC
No warp-speed tweaks?
#15 - 2015-09-11 17:17:08 UTC
THANK YOU BASED GOD FOZZIE

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

#16 - 2015-09-11 17:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: aria Yatolila
seems nice, especially range bonus on turretboat

Lady Yatolila, retainer of her Lady Kadesh and Khanid Royal House

Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2015-09-11 17:20:01 UTC
LOOOOOOVE THE CHANGES

BATTLECRUISERS ARE BACK BBY

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

C C P Alliance
#18 - 2015-09-11 17:20:10 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
No warp-speed tweaks?


Warp speed was increased earlier this year.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2015-09-11 17:21:18 UTC
This flat 12.5% drone velocity bonus on the Proph and Myrm is a little strange in my opinion. Was there any consideration made to it being something like 10% speed, 10% tracking? I have concerns that increasing the drone speed without increasing tracking as well will cause the drones to miss more often against small targets, and against heavier targets the drone speed bonus is hardly worth considering.

I know sentry drone tracking is something that you are pretty wary about giving out after the Domi and Ishtar but I hardly think a small flat bonus would break these two ships in the sentry role.
Verge of Collapse
#20 - 2015-09-11 17:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baali Tekitsu
All these buffs should also apply to command ships as they struggle with the same issues Combat battlecruisers do, just on a lesser scale as theyre flown less and are also a tiny bit better. If they do apply to command ships aswell, then sorry for posting this.

EDIT: I mean the role bonus and the agility buffs. Also the Absolution needs its optimal bonus finally.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

32 Pages123Next pageLast page
Forum Jump