These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Dev blog: I feel safe in Citadel city

First post
Author
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-08-13 14:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Work on the the new Citadel structures is proceeding well and we would like to give you an update and discuss what happens when a Citadel gets destroyed (yes, Citadel structures are destructible).

The current design introduces a asset safety mechanics once a Citadel got destroyed. This means that, generally speaking, your items won't be lost or destroyed when the Citadel is destroyed. Instead you will be able to retrieve your items either at an NPC station (that will cost ISK) or build a new Citadel and retrieve the items there.

Please read CCP Ytterbium's blog I feel safe in Citadel city and inform yourself about all the details! We encourage you also to read the companion blog Citadels, sieges and you.

Constructive discussions and questions are most welcome, additionally the CSM has compiled an excellent FAQ for your convenience.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#2 - 2015-08-13 15:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
So ships and items will no longer drop from structures in wormholes? I think it would be more sensible if only part of one's assets was delivered to some NPC station/other citadel while the other part dropped directly as loot.

Also, what is the lore behind assets magically appearing in another station? I liked the idea better, where personal assets were ejected in containers during destruction which needed to be picked up by individual players ... content and all.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-08-13 15:21:11 UTC
What's the rationale for passworded containers losing their passwords? It feels like a mechanics limitation rather than a gameplay decision.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Yroc Jannseen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-08-13 15:21:12 UTC
Will the roles to recover from PW'd cans be different, IE a higher level, from the access roles?
iwannadig
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-08-13 15:25:34 UTC
I still don't feel asset saving will be enough to build Citadels over Outposts even after this blog reading.
Current Habit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-08-13 15:29:59 UTC
Other than the restriction regarding which kind of items can be recovered by different kinds of citadels (i.e. docked titans can only be recovered to other X-L citadels) is the volume or value also limited to certain sizes?

As mentioned in the example, could the corp that lost their X-L citadel just create a M or L citadel to get back everything but the Nyx ? Even in the example used, a new (unrigged) X-L citadel would be cheaper than delivering everything to LS.
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
The Bastion
#7 - 2015-08-13 15:31:09 UTC
Looks good overall. I would rather have limited choice for where the assets end up. I.e. If we lose a Citadel in Vale we can choose any lowsec station in the nearest constellation for asset packages containing capitals Pilots without restricted items could select a highsec station in the same or adjacent constellation. If the location where the asset will end up is known then the attackers will be able to hellcamp the station where they know the assets will end up.

This prevents heavy abuse (having assets from Branch, for example get magically sent to Aridia.) but provides enough security to not have defacto lost the assets due to camps.
Lord Okinaba
Aliastra
#8 - 2015-08-13 15:31:21 UTC
Ugh. So personal assets and ships get magically transported to another station or system upon destruction?

Seems pretty soft and not at all what I have come to expect from EVE Online.

Everything should spill out into the system in thousands of pieces and at thousands of ms.

If you don't want to risk losing all your stuff, don't put all your eggs in one basket and always keep hold of liquid isk to start again.

ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#9 - 2015-08-13 15:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
iwannadig wrote:
I still don't feel asset saving will be enough to build Citadels over Outposts even after this blog reading.


The inability to build outposts will probably do it...

No Worries

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2015-08-13 15:32:22 UTC
Current Habit wrote:
Other than the restriction regarding which kind of items can be recovered by different kinds of citadels (i.e. docked titans can only be recovered to other X-L citadels) is the volume or value also limited to certain sizes?

As mentioned in the example, could the corp that lost their X-L citadel just create a M or L citadel to get back everything but the Nyx ? Even in the example used, a new (unrigged) X-L citadel would be cheaper than delivering everything to LS.


Sure if you can rebuild in system, or already have other structures still remaining. That is sort of the point of using this option.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-08-13 15:32:24 UTC
Could we get some clarification on the reimbursement for existing outposts and upgrades - the lack of information on this has essentially destroyed the willingness of anyone to upgrade new outposts (which is a bit silly given all the effort taken recently to make those worth something). Perhaps they could be converted into citidel rigs or the like.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#12 - 2015-08-13 15:32:46 UTC
Lord Okinaba wrote:
Ugh. So personal assets and ships get magically transported to another station or system upon destruction?

Seems pretty soft and not at all what I have come to expect from EVE Online.

Everything should spill out into the system in thousands of pieces and at thousands of ms.

If you don't want to risk losing all your stuff, don't put all your eggs in one basket and always keep hold of liquid isk to start again.



I second that.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-08-13 15:36:01 UTC
Lord Okinaba wrote:
Ugh. So personal assets and ships get magically transported to another station or system upon destruction?

Seems pretty soft and not at all what I have come to expect from EVE Online.

Everything should spill out into the system in thousands of pieces and at thousands of ms.

If you don't want to risk losing all your stuff, don't put all your eggs in one basket and always keep hold of liquid isk to start again.


bold words from someone who uses npc stations: "other people should face much greater risk, not me, of course, eve is about other people having risk while i cower in fear of risk so don't give me any tia"
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2015-08-13 15:37:50 UTC
Lord Okinaba wrote:
Ugh. So personal assets and ships get magically transported to another station or system upon destruction?

Seems pretty soft and not at all what I have come to expect from EVE Online.

Everything should spill out into the system in thousands of pieces and at thousands of ms.

If you don't want to risk losing all your stuff, don't put all your eggs in one basket and always keep hold of liquid isk to start again.


Considering that you have to pay a fee or pay to erect a new citadel (and deal with the thing that killed your previous citadel), I'd say it's a significant increase in penalty over the contemporary system where assets inside an outpost are completely safe forever.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2015-08-13 15:37:56 UTC
Urziel99 wrote:
Looks good overall. I would rather have limited choice for where the assets end up. I.e. If we lose a Citadel in Vale we can choose any lowsec station in the nearest constellation for asset packages containing capitals Pilots without restricted items could select a highsec station in the same or adjacent constellation. If the location where the asset will end up is known then the attackers will be able to hellcamp the station where they know the assets will end up.

This prevents heavy abuse (having assets from Branch, for example get magically sent to Aridia.) but provides enough security to not have defacto lost the assets due to camps.


This is a good point, however we are also very concerned with players abusing this as an asset delivery system especially in high / low sec. So having any amount of choice creates different problems for us.

Having said that we'll have a think about this some more. Thanks.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Lord Okinaba
Aliastra
#16 - 2015-08-13 15:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Okinaba
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Lord Okinaba wrote:
Ugh. So personal assets and ships get magically transported to another station or system upon destruction?

Seems pretty soft and not at all what I have come to expect from EVE Online.

Everything should spill out into the system in thousands of pieces and at thousands of ms.

If you don't want to risk losing all your stuff, don't put all your eggs in one basket and always keep hold of liquid isk to start again.


bold words from someone who uses npc stations: "other people should face much greater risk, not me, of course, eve is about other people having risk while i cower in fear of risk so don't give me any tia"


I live in a C5. How would my stuff be safe exactly?

I have next to **** all in NPC stations. Besides, as hinted in the Dev blog. NPC station arn't going to be there forever.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2015-08-13 15:40:13 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Could we get some clarification on the reimbursement for existing outposts and upgrades - the lack of information on this has essentially destroyed the willingness of anyone to upgrade new outposts (which is a bit silly given all the effort taken recently to make those worth something). Perhaps they could be converted into citidel rigs or the like.


We don't have a schedule for that yet, and no functionality will be taken away this year. Ytterbium covered how the transition will happen at Fanfest, and we'll give you a long heads up on exactly how and when we need to start reimbursing things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hen92QFrDUo#t=38m47s

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Anthar Thebess
#18 - 2015-08-13 15:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
There is very important thing.
In many cases nearest NPC space is not a lowsec but NPC null space.
Unless you want for Esoteria residents to pull back assets from aridia , instead from stain.
I really hope that you don't plan to make NPC stations in NPC space destroy-able.
This is totally different play style , and can ( and will ) be abused to keep all NPC groups totally incapable of doing any thing.

NPC null space is almost like lowspace - but no gate guns , and you can use dictor bubbles.

Next thing is vulnerability windows, that again for NPC null space will be the worst possible.
You cannot get any indexes up.

How this can be abused.
Depending on costs od structures, i see possibility to move large quantity of assets 100% safe to low space.
It will be 10% tax ( that quite often is lower than cost of moving some materials by JF) , and the cost of small citadel.
Players will abuse it.

Next thing - remember to always UNDOCK citadel before logging off - do you really want this?
This way you will not lose ship you are sitting (eg : carrier filled in most expensive ships)
Sabastian Cerabiam
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#19 - 2015-08-13 15:42:17 UTC
Is there any timeline on implementation. Even a vague "within 3-6 months" id be good with. I am about to ramp up t2 production but im not gona drop a bunch of POSs and invest all my isk there if the new system is out soon.

Besides that the new system seems great on paper so far.
iwannadig
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-08-13 15:43:16 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
iwannadig wrote:
I still don't feel asset saving will be enough to build Citadels over Outposts even after this blog reading.


The inability to build outposts will probably do it...

But devs clearly compare it with Outposts and NPC stations, while this is more like next-gen POSes.
123Next pageLast page