These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Very minor entosis tweak QOL - notification time change

Author
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-08-03 09:20:45 UTC
Could the alert on structure lasering perhaps be moved back to the start of the warm up cycle?

Benefits as I see it:

Greater benefit to a fast warmup cycle to get the ball rolling - i.e. incentive to use T2 mods.
On the ball owners can kick the offender out before they have to fire up their own link and warmup to undo the damage.
People pinging stuctures to start a fight will still get the fight, just sooner
People trying to hold space overstretched have the same problems.
No fundamental change to existing mechanics

This would really reward those living in the place and actively hunting people down by means of a time saving after chasing off irritants but without needing to have eyes on the target grid all the time.


It's a fairly minor QOL type change (I think) and one in the right direction. Those not living in their space/ignoring it will be just as boned today as tomorrow and need to respond. It purely benefits those guys "doing it right™" with a little carrot.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2015-08-03 10:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
afkalt wrote:
Could the alert on structure lasering perhaps be moved back to the start of the warm up cycle?

Benefits as I see it:

Greater benefit to a fast warmup cycle to get the ball rolling - i.e. incentive to use T2 mods.
On the ball owners can kick the offender out before they have to fire up their own link and warmup to undo the damage.
People pinging stuctures to start a fight will still get the fight, just sooner
People trying to hold space overstretched have the same problems.
No fundamental change to existing mechanics

This would really reward those living in the place and actively hunting people down by means of a time saving after chasing off irritants but without needing to have eyes on the target grid all the time.


It's a fairly minor QOL type change (I think) and one in the right direction. Those not living in their space/ignoring it will be just as boned today as tomorrow and need to respond. It purely benefits those guys "doing it right™" with a little carrot.


I all ways did think it was at the start of the warm up cycle but i guess i was wrong it does make sense that it would send the notice on the warm up or there's little benefit using something with a short cycle time vs lets say a carrier which could do its 10min warm up with no notice been sent do the whatever in 9min 50 something secs and then be out in one single 10min cycle and jump out of system before you have even been able to form something that can kill a 40k+ dps tank triage carrier.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#3 - 2015-08-03 10:05:59 UTC
If they are actively in space and hunting people down surely the what? 10-30 minutes it takes once the warmup has stopped is enough to get to the action and murderboat the sovlaser people...

I live in a wormhole with a static nullsec but we once ragerolled to blopsing range of a batphoned (we got paid handsomely dont worry) region in 30 minutes... Surely 30 minutes of random chance to get a decent nullsec means that if you dont have to rageroll and actually talk to people in other corps/alliances and make sure we dont get dropped on by the defenders (since you'd be blue) means that there's plenty of time now...
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2015-08-03 10:23:01 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Could the alert on structure lasering perhaps be moved back to the start of the warm up cycle?

...

People pinging stuctures to start a fight will still get the fight, just sooner


Good suggestion, primarily because it makes it easier to get a fight sooner. If you are not looking for a fight, then do not Entosis.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-08-03 10:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
FireFrenzy wrote:
If they are actively in space and hunting people down surely the what? 10-30 minutes it takes once the warmup has stopped is enough to get to the action and murderboat the sovlaser people...


It's not about giving them more time to respond, it is about rewarding people who actually live their without NEEDING to park an alt on the obective for the whole window.

At the moment what happens is

>Warm up cycle 5 mins
>Warm up completes, progress starts & ping goes out simultaneously

This can go two ways at this stage: no response comes (which I'll ignore as this proposal doesn't change this) and response comes:

Let us say that the response fleet kicks interloper out in moments (let's say it's someone just poking the fence for weakness/lack of response or someone ringing the doorbell for a fight).

The owners then need to sit through their own warm up cycle to undo the prior action, this seems unnecessarily punitive towards them. They responded as soon as notified, the attacker was swiftly removed.

So the whole process in this example would be

>Warm up cycle 5 mins
>Warm up completes, progress starts & ping goes out simultaneously
>Attacked booted out
>Defender sits through warmup to undo a few seconds worth of entosis.

Basically I don't think people should be penalised for not parking up to stop an attack which gives no notifications. It would be a nice QOL improvement for people who live in the systems but preventing the "need" to have eyes on the target the whole time, lest you spend 5 minutes work every time someone comes calling to run off.


I feel it would be more reasonable to act as follows:

>Warm up cycle 5 mins ping goes out simultaneously
>>If attackers booted out before warmup completes, nothing happens. No further defender action required. Otherwise proceed as normal
>Warm up allowed to complete, progress starts
>Attacked booted out
>Defender sits through warmup to undo entosis progress.



I do concede, this does allow the defenders a few extra minutes to respond which I hadn't thought of, but I don't actually see that as a bad thing.



Tbh, I don't actually see much point in a "warm up" cycle if it didnt work like this, especially with the capitals having a longer one.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#6 - 2015-08-03 12:28:26 UTC
afkalt wrote:




I do concede, this does allow the defenders a few extra minutes to respond which I hadn't thought of, but I don't actually see that as a bad thing.


Remember, one of the key points of Aegis Sov is to ensure that whoever controls the grid wins the contest. Control of the grid is supposed to be determined by a fight. Sending out the notification earlier results in a fight earlier. And results in less tedium in the long run.

Aegis Sov is supposed to encourage small gang fights, afkalt's suggestion helps bring about those fights. Totally supported.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Stein Backstabber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-08-08 12:56:09 UTC
It'd certainly save time waiting when you're poking a fight.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#8 - 2015-08-11 13:17:32 UTC
Remove the notification.

Problem solved. Now go live in your system.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#9 - 2015-08-11 14:12:43 UTC
Fully support this. Makes much more sense than current system does. Rewards people for being active on defense without really changing anything for the attacker other than they might get the fight a little sooner.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-08-11 14:12:55 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
Remove the notification.

Problem solved. Now go live in your system.



I don't think it is reasonable to expect people to spend X hours per night literally camping a deployable just in case. That's taking it far too far.

There is more to living in a system than sitting, camped out on a deployable.
SilentAsTheGrave
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2015-08-11 16:58:53 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Reppyk wrote:
Remove the notification.

Problem solved. Now go live in your system.



I don't think it is reasonable to expect people to spend X hours per night literally camping a deployable just in case. That's taking it far too far.

There is more to living in a system than sitting, camped out on a deployable.

One can easily argue that if your group is active in the system they will know when someone is Entosising something. You call it babysitting but that word only applies to systems you are not active in.

I think restricting Entosis modules from interceptors and changing the notifications to ONLY be system wide would be a good change.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-08-11 18:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
I disagree however also keep in mind this is the future of all contests. When you add a pos set to this too, I want to know the instant the bastard spools up ESPECIALLY as the new structures do not shoot automatically.

And that goes double in a wormhole where we don't have local to spot interlopers (specifically logins)
NateX
Mind Games.
WE FORM V0LTA
#13 - 2015-08-11 23:21:22 UTC
I asked this very question when aegis sov was on test server. I got this answer from Fozzie.

http://i.imgur.com/M00p7kJ.png
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-08-12 08:26:17 UTC
NateX wrote:
I asked this very question when aegis sov was on test server. I got this answer from Fozzie.

http://i.imgur.com/M00p7kJ.png



Madness I tell thee.

Does he really think that 2/5 minutes is the tipping point between too easy to defend and balanced? Really?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#15 - 2015-08-12 10:14:57 UTC
NateX wrote:
I asked this very question when aegis sov was on test server. I got this answer from Fozzie.

http://i.imgur.com/M00p7kJ.png


I consistently try to live by my mother's guidance: "If you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all." This is something at which I often fail... and it is not made easier by these sorts of statements from CCP. Sorry, mom...

The whole point of the damn game is to get people on the same grid to fight! The notification should go out immediately to make contesting the grid happen sooner.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-08-12 10:45:45 UTC
I'm more trying to work out how 58 minutes is perfectly balanced (not 60, as defender also has cycle time), 62 minutes is stacked too hard in the defenders favor tbfh.
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#17 - 2015-08-12 12:06:11 UTC
Instantnotification -> Good, that means i grab a trollceptor and generate about 15 notificationmails in 5 minutes?
in several systems obviously
every day, for weeks

still asking why it's delayed?!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-08-12 12:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
RcTamiya wrote:
Instantnotification -> Good, that means i grab a trollceptor and generate about 15 notificationmails in 5 minutes?
in several systems obviously
every day, for weeks

still asking why it's delayed?!



Can I get someone who knows the mechanics please, Bob?


I suppose I should add why you're talking rubbish:
You can't end the mod prematurely.
You can't warp, jump or dock.
You are LOCKED from AU level travel until the cycle completes.

So tell me more about how you'll manage 15 notifications in 5 minutes.....