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Need advice on neural remap

Author
Pal Vandrefalk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-06-22 07:14:01 UTC
Hi, folks o/

Picked the game yesterday and now developing a skill plan to become an explorer. I have noticed a neural remap feature and after reading that it can significantly help with training time I wonder how I need to remap to get good time boost.

My current plan is following:

Imicus (HiSec/LoSec) -> Astero (Null/WH) -> Helios -> Stratios -> Proteus.

Right now I have a training queue filled up to start training Hacking and Archaeology later today.

I know, that EVE Mon can help with neural remap suggestion, but I am sure I will mess it up with incorrect priorities. In addition to exploration skills, I think, I will also train support, armor and drone skills (maybe lasers and hybrids later).

Thanks for assistance in advance.
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-06-22 07:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jordon Wallace
Pal Vandrefalk wrote:
Hi, folks o/

Picked the game yesterday and now developing a skill plan to become an explorer. I have noticed a neural remap feature and after reading that it can significantly help with training time I wonder how I need to remap to get good time boost.

My current plan is following:

Imicus (HiSec/LoSec) -> Astero (Null/WH) -> Helios -> Stratios -> Proteus.

Right now I have a training queue filled up to start training Hacking and Archaeology later today.

I know, that EVE Mon can help with neural remap suggestion, but I am sure I will mess it up with incorrect priorities. In addition to exploration skills, I think, I will also train support, armor and drone skills (maybe lasers and hybrids later).

Thanks for assistance in advance.


You want to be very careful with remapping as you only have a limited amount then you got a long wait ahead of you, it depends on what you want to do and if you're willing to bite the bullet for a few months to enjoy more sweet fruit down the line. Personally I have dedicated myself to a four month INT/MEM remap course where I hoard all the core skills and skills with those attributes for maximum efficiency, after that will be my spaceship skills alongside gunnery.

Good advice is don't remap until you got it all planned out a year ahead, also get your Cybernetics maxed out or at level four as those implants will really help you accelerate your training. It all depends my friend on what you want to do, but if you do remap stay the course for a few months at least to really feel the benefits. Albeit delayed gratification it is even sweeter once you get there.
Pal Vandrefalk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-06-22 07:47:56 UTC
Cybernetics IV - noted. That's for +3 implants? And how much the set is worth?

As for stats, I was thinking along these lines for a couple of month: INT 23, MEM 21, PER 19, WIL 19 and CHA 17. Maybe INT/MEM 22/22.

Plan for a year, hmm, - getting up support and exploration skills is priority. For ships itself - CovOps, T3 and maybe some additional money makers like Ishtar (DED AFKtar) and L4 Dominix. Not that, I think, I will be running missions that much, maybe a backup option for getting ISKs.
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-06-22 07:53:02 UTC
Pal Vandrefalk wrote:
Cybernetics IV - noted. That's for +3 implants? And how much the set is worth?

As for stats, I was thinking along these lines for a couple of month: INT 23, MEM 21, PER 19, WIL 19 and CHA 17. Maybe INT/MEM 22/22.

Plan for a year, hmm, - getting up support and exploration skills is priority. For ships itself - CovOps, T3 and maybe some additional money makers like Ishtar (DED AFKtar) and L4 Dominix. Not that, I think, I will be running missions that much, maybe a backup option for getting ISKs.


Cybernetics four will give you access to + 4 implants and current Jita value you're looking at shy of 100 million for the entire set so very doable. I would get your basic exploration skills now and remap when you are ready, I would go full one or the other though but that is just me being a stickler for efficiency.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-06-22 08:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Azda Ja
http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2

Great plan here I used for my first month or two. It's a bit more focused on combat, but it gives you a great base to work with. You'll notice it says to use an INT/PER remap. You'll want to take points out of everything, and then distribute them evenly between INT and PER. The idea here is that when starting out, you have a ton of skills with different attribute priorities to train. Int is the primary attribute for a lot of the 'support' skills, so tank, engineering stuff etc. It's also primary for the probing related skills. However, I wouldn't go INT/MEM when starting out, there are many PER/WIL skills to train that would be more immediately useful to you, like Gall Frig 5 or whatever (probing bonus).

INT/PER is a great compromise since you get a decent SP flow no matter what you train (with few exceptions, like Drone skills). I stuck to INT/PER for about 6 or 7 months and don't regret it, I only switched to a more specialized mapping once I knew I would be training the same type of skills for a long time.

EDIT: Also, I definitely do NOT recommend you get +4 implants. Those are extremely expensive, and at this stage you're training extremely quickly anyway. As an explorer, you're going to be diving into dangerous space, better to stay on the cheap while learning, because you will be actively hunted when in someone else's 'home'. You're going to slip up and make mistakes when starting, better to lose a 10 mil isk frigate and an empty/cheap pod than 100+mil in implants.

I use +2 implants, they give me a decent training boost, but are ridiculously affordable, think it's around 3 or 4 mil per +2 implant. If you're feeling a bit more daring, +3s go for around 8 mil I believe. Those are far more manageable risks than getting +4s.

Grrr.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#6 - 2015-06-22 10:57:38 UTC
I'd wait a while and just keep it balanced. Too many different skills to train to start, and you'll be wanting the remap when single skills start taking weeks to train. As for implants, you can get basic out of LP stores, +3 with lower skills. Time investment to use better can be self-defeating in the short-mid term. Good hardwiring is worth it though imo, but burns isk/lp to use and lose.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#7 - 2015-06-22 11:08:12 UTC
Get a set of +4 implants as soon as you can afford them and train skills to level 4 before remapping. Generally you will want several months of skills queued that benefit from the remap - once your bonus remaps as a new player are gone you will need to wait a year between remaps. Intelligence/Memory will speed up Electronics (cloaking), Engineering and scanning skills. Eve University has a skill plan you should consider: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Exploration_skills
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-06-22 11:22:52 UTC
If you have to ask what to remap into then you should not be remapping. Actually even if you think that you know this early on you should most likely not be remapping.

Remapping can help you train certain skills faster. However it comes at the expense of other skills training slower. This early into the game you will need to be able to train everything. I'm not sure how many bonus remaps you get now-a-days but when you use your first remap a timer will start that is a year long. You won't be able to remap for a year. If you have a bonus remap you will be able to use that however once the bonus remaps are gone there currently is no way to get any more of them.

Early in this game I played the skill queue. I trained skills at the fastest possible skill points per hour. What wound up happening is that I destroyed that character and wound up having to make an alt. A few years later that old main of mine had 60 million skill points and without exaggerating I can say was nearly useless. The second character that I created had far fewer skill points but was infinitely more useful. To this day the second character is my main. I turned that first one into a cap ship pilot and I don't ever fly cap ships so now that character has 120 million skill points and is of not much use to me.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Pal Vandrefalk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-06-22 12:09:58 UTC
Thanks everyone for suggestions. I will not go remap this month and will buy +2 set instead. My current plan in EVE Mon is 29 days, so I think it is decent enough.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#10 - 2015-06-22 13:49:19 UTC
Basically for your first year or so in the game it is best to keep your attributes balalnced.
Most of the skills you will be training would not be greatly affected by a remap and leaving attributes balanced allows you to train anything and everything you want with the same efficiency. As your character ages and your skill training times go up significantly then a carefully set up skill plan with remaps can will become important.
Velarra
#11 - 2015-06-22 15:59:37 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Basically for your first year or so in the game it is best to keep your attributes balanced.
Most of the skills you will be training would not be greatly affected by a remap and leaving attributes balanced allows you to train anything and everything you want with the same efficiency. As your character ages and your skill training times go up significantly then a carefully set up skill plan with remaps can will become important.


Couldn't say this any better.

Equally I can't help but reflect on how terrible attributes are, as a whole. For players of any proficiency with Eve and its myriad of career paths.
Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
#12 - 2015-06-22 20:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Exotic Matters
I disagree with most everyone here. You are wasting a remap if you don't remap immediately with a new character because you are not going to remap 3 times in your first year and that first remap is starts a 12 month timer. If you waited until 6 months, it would still start a 12 month timer and you would have to wait 18 months for your second non-bonus remap. Almost anything is better than the flat across the board configuration. I'm pretty sure for a combat toon perception/intelligence saves a few days each month over the flat config. But I would not switch from this until you know you are going to be training the same 2 traits for a long time, probably not until the end of the first year when your remap timer runs out and another non-bonus remap is available.

I will add, if you load EveU recommended skillplan and the skills needed for cruiser, battlecruiser into EVEMon it claims about 1-3 days advantage per month even if you also seed in basic skills for mining barge, exploration, and social (for missions). It will tell you the remap settings based on first year that will give you the best average skillpoints/day. But almost anything that diminishes charism is better than the flat config, unless you have a very non-combat skillplan. The amount of charisma needed for missioning/standings is negligible assuming you are keeping the same remap for the first year.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-06-22 21:26:07 UTC
Yeah a PER = INT remap is a great all around setup when starting out. Not the most efficient true, but the most user friendly setup, while being miles better than the defaults. Read up a bit on it before you decide of course, don't do it blindly.

Grrr.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#14 - 2015-06-23 00:42:41 UTC
I don't know about a whole year, but that may depend on your career path/s. Webvan is pretty much a pure combat pilot, so I did an unbalanced remap before 60days. But also, he began as an alt, so I wasn't trying to do things asap and he mostly sat in station if I even logged him in.

But my primary character, that started as an explorer combat pilot... back when you HAD to be able to fight to do exploration (sites had rats - and was fun..). So it was very difficult to do any serious remapping with heavy INT and PER based skills... and trying to actively play while training. That case, long term balance works well, or for any pilot training today's multi-career plans, which could be maybe a minimum of 3-6mos before any real remapping. In some cases, sure I could imagine a whole year to remap.

All I can say is spend time in evemon over time, work different stuff out and just have fun with it. Don't worry if you lose a few hrs or a few days here or there, at least you don't need to wake up at 2am to put a new skill in any longer lest all training come to a fatalistically grinding and mortifyingly terrible halt Straight

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2015-06-23 02:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Pal Vandrefalk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-06-23 07:14:33 UTC


Thanks. It is helpful. Now your Int 23, per/mem 21 remap is what I was considering. Yeah, I will start as an explorer but later I plan to have skills for DED/C3 sites solo.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-06-23 10:52:03 UTC
I would recommend to get a jump clone (using a jump clone services, the one of your player corp, or go to providence) for dangerous stuff and +4 implants (at least on the top 2 attributes) for your highsec clone.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Kgu
#18 - 2015-06-23 14:20:41 UTC
I second the jump clone recommendation. It's vitally important to have a training clone for your days away from the game and an empty or cheap clone for pursuing risky business that makes the game fun. Also, don't forget that you can save on clone costs by using implants matched to your remap. Int and men in one clone, per and will in another, if and when you chose to focus like that. It's a good way to have the 4 attribute bonus without losing your shirt when you get podded a few times.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-06-23 16:04:34 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Yeah a PER = INT remap is a great all around setup when starting out. Not the most efficient true, but the most user friendly setup, while being miles better than the defaults. Read up a bit on it before you decide of course, don't do it blindly.


I tend to lean toward PERC/MEM just for those sexay drone skills but PERC/INT is a wonderful starter.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.

Elleren
Wormlife Freeport Operations
Wormlife
#20 - 2015-06-24 02:19:08 UTC
As you get more into the game, and learn and experience more, it is very likely that your thinking will change, especially in respect to what skills you want trained to a higher level.

I seriously doubt 1/100 truly new players would make the same choices a few months later, that they would when they first start.
By waiting, all of them are still there when you know more and better how to use them. Wasting them will sting later, I promise.

You start out I think with one (1) every 12 months remap, and three (3) bonus remaps. I would use the annual remap fairly soon, but not during your first month. Experience the game and learn, and then in a month, with a lot more knowledge and experience than now, use the annual remap. It will be available again in a year from the date you use it. You should then use it every year when it becomes available.

That leaves you with the three (3) bonus remaps. I strongly advise that you not even consider using one of them until you have much more knowledge. Using your annual remap as soon as it becomes available is good. Using one (1) of your three (3) bonus implants should only be when you feel comfortable about it, have a clear set of goals to thereby achieve, and even after carefully thinking it through, you are still clear in your own mind it is a good usage.

For those who use them wisely, there is a leg up on the majority who do not.

Seek to maximize your mileage from each such use. You only get 3. Use them wisely, and get the leg up, and feel satisfied.
Do like most and waste them, and they will profit you very little.

One thing I can add to this is that right now you probably do not fully understand how much difference there is between a pilot who can fly a Battlecruiser for example, and one who not only can fly it, but has all the attendant skills to make it sing. Fly the bigger ship as soon as you can, and you likely will not fly it long before you no longer have that ship, but learn the point I am making.

Right now you may know how to set a remap to be able to fly a big ship sooner, but all that means is that unless you know enough to include the attendant skills in that skill plan training as well, you likely will only have a painful adverse killmail for your trouble.

Honor is earned.

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