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[December] Module Tiericide – Shield Rechargers and Others

First post First post
Author
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-06-19 13:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Logibro
As part of our continued module tiericide project, we are planning on applying consolidation and balance changes to Shield Rechargers, Shield Power Relays, and Shield Flux Coils. Please note there is no definitive time frame for these changes to go out at the moment.

The general principles behind module tiericide are as follows:

Goals of Module Tiericide

  • Reduce unnecessary complexity
  • Provide meaningful options within the module set


Structural Changes

  • Consolidate 'Named' modules from meta levels 1-4 into two variants within meta level 1 - a 'compact' variant and a 'restrained' variant
  • Maintain the general positioning and power level of Tech II variants in the families
  • Place 'Storyline' variants in a place that is somewhere between the 'compact' and Tech II variants in terms of relevant stats
  • Bring the power level of Shield Flux Coils up closer to the power of Shield Power Relays.
  • Add new Faction variants to increase meaningful options tied to ISK price


Notes
Naming Signifiers – The modifiers used by this set of modules are Compact (lower fitting requirements) and Restrained (lower penalties)
Flux Coil Recharge Rates – Because Shield Flux Coils reduce your overall Shield amount, the calculations for their actual shield recharge rate are slightly more complicated. The actual recharge rates have been listed as additional information beside the modules stats.

Proposed Module Changes

Shield Rechargers
Shield Rechargers - Tiericide Spreadsheet

Shield Power Relays
Shield Power Relays - Tiericide Spreadsheet

Shield Flux Coils
Shield Flux Coils - Tiericide Spreadsheet

Release Plan
As previously stated, these changes have no current release plan. They are unlikely to be released in the Aegis release in July, but are more likely to come out in the release after that.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Valkin Mordirc
#2 - 2015-06-19 13:34:26 UTC
WOO FIRST PLACE
#DeleteTheWeak
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2015-06-19 13:35:46 UTC
Y not sticky?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-06-19 13:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
3rd one

Please fix Armor reps/Shield Boosters/Hull reps next
Along with weapon upgrades mods.

Please.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2015-06-19 13:44:50 UTC
Still don't like meta modules providing superior stats compared to T1.
There is no reason to use T1 over meta.
meta should provide different pro's and con's with T1 being the base line.
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2015-06-19 13:49:53 UTC
New faction shield mods.

Interesting.
Vic Vorlon
Aideron Robotics
Federation Uprising
#7 - 2015-06-19 13:52:00 UTC
@Nagarythe, the advantage with T1 modules is that you can manufacture them yourself. For some circumstances, that's enough of a benefit. If you want better modules (the meta ones) you have to go ratting or go shopping.
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2015-06-19 13:56:06 UTC
Yay ish sticky now!



But seriously, can we cut the crap with all this stalling and do t3's and sentries?? Nothing can be really balanced while t3's and sentries are so broken. Really this is all wasted effort until the real problems are fixed. Hint: shield recharges are not the major issue.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2015-06-19 14:13:05 UTC
god, can you get to the actual relevant modules like turrets, tackle mods, ewar? who actually cares about these.

or forget the whole thing and do some ship rebalancing, stuff that'll actually fix the game.
Aeon Veritas
Easily.Offended
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2015-06-19 14:17:53 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Consolidate 'Named' modules from meta levels 1-4 into two variants within meta level 1 - a 'compact' variant and a 'restrained' variant
And again I want to ask why they are all changed to meta level 1?
Do you have any plans for the meta levels 2-4?
If not, please consider to distribute the variants across them, like "Compact" = Meta 1, "Restrained" = Meta 2 and so on...
This would make it easier to filter the inventory for the different mods.
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2015-06-19 15:34:20 UTC
Aeon Veritas wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:
Consolidate 'Named' modules from meta levels 1-4 into two variants within meta level 1 - a 'compact' variant and a 'restrained' variant
And again I want to ask why they are all changed to meta level 1?
Do you have any plans for the meta levels 2-4?
If not, please consider to distribute the variants across them, like "Compact" = Meta 1, "Restrained" = Meta 2 and so on...
This would make it easier to filter the inventory for the different mods.


Once the module tiericide project is complete, it is very likely we will rework meta levels to remove the gaps. Until then we feel leaving the gaps is a better option than having two systems working simultaneously.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#12 - 2015-06-19 15:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Shield rechargers need a massive boost! I'm surprised you've missed that one Shocked. They are competing with EM wards, Shield extenders, Invulns... There is little reason to fit them on passive tanked ships. Please reconsider their stats Big smile

Shield Power Relays stats seem fine to me.

Shield Flux Coils, I was expecting a massive boost as well, reduction of shield capacity is so opposed to passive shield tanking that there is currently no use for these modules. Not with such stats.
You should buff them quite extensively, or swap their penalty for something else perhaps? Maybe more sig radius? Or less total Capacitor? Or less Powergrid? But something needs to change.

Suggestion: What about a module that modifies the curve of shield regeneration to have the optimal regeneration start earlier and last longer? That would definitely be a nice addition to Shield Flux Coils or Shield Rechargers.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Tonrak awesomesauce
The Mythically Intoxicated
Solyaris Chtonium
#13 - 2015-06-19 16:39:28 UTC
Shield power relay and shield Flux coils still seems pretty underwhelming. They are hardly used in any fits, and probably still won't
.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#14 - 2015-06-19 17:17:08 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Still don't like meta modules providing superior stats compared to T1.
There is no reason to use T1 over meta.
meta should provide different pro's and con's with T1 being the base line.


Pretty much my main comment on all of these rebalancing threads. T1 justice
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#15 - 2015-06-19 17:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Still don't like meta modules providing superior stats compared to T1.
There is no reason to use T1 over meta.
meta should provide different pro's and con's with T1 being the base line.


dont really agree t1 is for t2 production if you ask me...

though if it were up to me... i would have t2 meta versions...

that would really make things interesting.

Think about a tech II 425 compressed coil gun... almost takes no cap to use but has 80% damage of regular tech II 425

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#16 - 2015-06-19 17:50:07 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
dont really agree t1 is for t2 production if you ask me...

Yes in nearly all cases the only use for a T1 module is to be used in T2 manufacture. It would have been nice if there had been at least some reason to use them; for instance make them the compact version. Although I'll live with the status quo and just continue to view them as components for manufacture.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#17 - 2015-06-19 17:58:44 UTC
If the figures are correct for %shield per second more then the flux coils are all far too similar. The decision then comes down to fitting or raw hp to survive alpha, in which case only the basic is worth considering. The idea of tiericide is to create more viable choices, this time round you seem to have squashed them all from the current 'only T2 is worthwhile, to 'only cosmos basic is worthwhile'.
Valterra Craven
#18 - 2015-06-19 18:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
CCP Terminus wrote:
As part of our continued module tiericide project, we are planning on applying consolidation and balance changes to Shield Rechargers, Shield Power Relays, and Shield Flux Coils. Please note there is no definitive time frame for these changes to go out at the moment.

The general principles behind module tiericide are as follows:

  • Add new Faction variants to increase meaningful options tied to ISK price



  • I think you guys need to work on this a bit. Faction variants that are tied to one source typically mean that premiums are paid above and beyond what makes logical sense for the benefit compared to other modules that have multiple faction variants.

    I think each module should have at least one pirate and one navy variant, with the possibility of several of each.
    Granted, I also think dead space variants should be added as well.
    Sleepaz Den
    Artificial Memories
    Great Blue Balls of Fire
    #19 - 2015-06-19 18:52:41 UTC
    Passive recharge is really a good argument if the range 20-40% of max shields is big enough that individual volleys can't punch you through there. Shield flux coils sorta help massively with that, from the aggressor's POV.

    In pvp, a battlecruiser's+ volley (or a set of heavy drones) easily is 2k upwards.
    In pve, many sites got sentries dealing massive blasts on warp-in and then every so often afterwards. Since your recharge tank only kicks in at low shields, sentries or low-RoF missile-heavy ships present disqualify flux coils more often than not.

    If the Flux Coil Shield-HP penalty would be stacking penalized like a CPR's shield boost malus, that'd help a lot and maybe could even make for more agreeable recharge fits that, while more susceptible to ganks, could use MWDs in sites or do multiple longer warps in rapid succession.
    Trancefo Delcroix
    Cosmic Origin
    #20 - 2015-06-19 18:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Trancefo Delcroix
    First: Good work on the rechargers and power relays!

    Second: Flux coils are totally off balance. You calculated recharge gain and balanced only with that in mind.
    Tech II would now work 24,3% more effective for recharge while it takes 150% more CPU and has 200% more HP-drawback than basic making it utter crap compared to it.

    I suggest:

    ..................CPU.........Recharge.................HP....................%Shield

    T1................20................25....................-15.........................13,3
    Mark I..........15................27....................-15.........................16,4 (with low fitting)
    Type-D........20................23.....................-10........................16,9 (with high HP)
    T2................25................30....................-15.........................21,4
    Basic...........10................20.....................-10........................12,5 (with low fitting and high HP)
    Guristas.......25................31....................-15.........................23,2



    (This leaves mark I the best at low fitting, type-D the best against alpha, Basic stays the "small" flux and T2 and guristas now have a meaningfull boost to recharge at expense of HP and fitting)
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