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Advice on Exploration (Not sucking)

First post
Author
Trahearn Voidgazer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-06-18 13:52:32 UTC
Hello there,

I started playing last week, and so far, I've been having a lot of fun with exploration. I managed to find a wormhole that led to a relic site that gave me around 8 million isk. Unfortunately, my luck with every other wormhole has either led to finding nothing but combat sites, or getting blown up and podded at least once by vets. Should I be waiting until I have cloaking unlocked to do wormholes, or should I just accept the fact that I'm going to die, knowing that I'm making isk even when I get killed. Advice?
Juan Diolosa
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#2 - 2015-06-18 14:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Juan Diolosa
Personally, I would not enter wormholes doing exploration without a covert ops capable ship.

However, let me ask you this:

* Did you make enough ISK to offset your loss?
* Did you have fun, despite getting blown up and podded?
* Most importantly, did you learn anything at all?

I have to give you props for getting into WHs in your first week. Don't be afraid to lose stuff. It's going to happen. And I can tell you it's a lot more fun losing a billion isk ship in a wormhole than a 10m mining ship in an asteroid belt in Highsec.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-06-18 14:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Yeah, keep going, practice, try new tactics, a prototype cloak is enough for the start, as long as you make more ISK than you lose and still have fun, all is fine ... this is how EvE (exploration) works. Check the wormhole number with google, it has to be C1-C3 to have null relic sites inside (those with the pirate faction name) without rats ... the WH combat relics and other sides need a very good combat ship. And don't forget to chat nicely with the players who have killed you, you may get valuable advice and ISK ...

... EDIT: search for Jonny Pew on Youtube.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Trahearn Voidgazer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-06-18 15:11:44 UTC
Juan Diolosa wrote:
Personally, I would not enter wormholes doing exploration without a covert ops capable ship.

However, let me ask you this:

* Did you make enough ISK to offset your loss?


More than enough. So far I have lost 2 Herons with minimalist derp fittings. ( I'm not proud, I'll admit I suck at fitting). At most that probably cost me 1 million. I sold the loot I got from a single wormhole relic site for about 8 million. My margins have been decent, but I want to make them better.

Juan Diolosa wrote:
* Did you have fun, despite getting blown up and podded?


The first time: yes. I talked to the guy afterwards in private chat and he gave my around 2 million isk for my trouble and his amusement. Last night I'll admit that I was frustrated, because I had trained up my scanning skills a fair amount from where I had started, and failed to pin down a high-sec data site. Then I went into a wormhole a system away and recieved suprise b*tt-s*x from a tengu with no chance for lube. I admit that one was entirely my fault since I was parked right next to the wormhole with no cloak and unaligned. Honestly, looking back from hindsight I find it a bit funny myself. Big smile

Juan Diolosa wrote:
* Most importantly, did you learn anything at all?


Yes. If, I see another ship on d-scan, run (Until I get a cloak, then I'll have to start thinking).

Juan Diolosa wrote:
I have to give you props for getting into WHs in your first week. Don't be afraid to lose stuff. It's going to happen. And I can tell you it's a lot more fun losing a billion isk ship in a wormhole than a 10m mining ship in an asteroid belt in Highsec.


I have only done exploration for a bit, and I love it already. The paranoia of running sites where I could die at any second is thrilling.
Di Mulle
#5 - 2015-06-18 15:23:51 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:


I have only done exploration for a bit, and I love it already. The paranoia of running sites where I could die at any second is thrilling.


It seems you are getting EVE, and in a right way. Congratulations.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2015-06-18 16:19:59 UTC
If you were having trouble with a high-sec data site it was probably a sleeper cache. They require significantly higher skill to pin down. Try it with Astrometric Pinpointing at level 3 and sisters probes. They are also more challenging to run. Johnny Pew has published walkthroughs for both the Limited and Standard sleeper cache on YouTube. I've found both limited and standard in high-sec.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-06-18 17:00:29 UTC
For fits for explaoration Eve Scout folkis have put together a list (just for you)

https://www.reddit.com/r/evescout/comments/31dzc0/fits_for_exploration_ships/

worth looking at as a guideline, if nothing else. If exploration is really your goal you may want to chat with them about joining. I am not a recruiter, just a guy pointing folks in what I hope is the right direction

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Anddo
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-06-18 18:31:34 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Hello there,

I started playing last week, and so far, I've been having a lot of fun with exploration. I managed to find a wormhole that led to a relic site that gave me around 8 million isk. Unfortunately, my luck with every other wormhole has either led to finding nothing but combat sites, or getting blown up and podded at least once by vets. Should I be waiting until I have cloaking unlocked to do wormholes, or should I just accept the fact that I'm going to die, knowing that I'm making isk even when I get killed. Advice?


I would suggest using wormholes to find nullsec space to explore in. A huge number of null systems are completely empty, so jump into the hole, scan down the connecting holes, jump into one that leads to null. Since you will still have local, only run sites if the system is completely empty. Make a bookmark somewhere between planets and keep yourself aligned to it while running the site. If someone shows up on d-scan/shows up at the site, immediately warp to your bookmark.

Train into a cloaking device immediately too. The prototype cloaking device is only a few days to train into, if I remember correctly.

Until you can fit a cloaking device, get at least 14.35AU away from any celestial object before dropping probes, so that you won't easily show on a hostile's d-scan.
Trahearn Voidgazer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-18 18:58:50 UTC
Wheres a good place to buy ships and equipment? When I opened my regional market, there practically nothing there.
Anddo
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-06-18 19:13:13 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Wheres a good place to buy ships and equipment? When I opened my regional market, there practically nothing there.


Jita, Amarr, Rens, Dodixie, and Hek are the systems serving as the biggest trade hubs in the game right now
Trahearn Voidgazer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-06-18 19:17:50 UTC
Anddo wrote:
Jita, Amarr, Rens, Dodixie, and Hek are the systems serving as the biggest trade hubs in the game right now


How are prices in the areas respectively? Is there a site that I can use to compare prices?
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#12 - 2015-06-18 19:33:52 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Anddo wrote:
Jita, Amarr, Rens, Dodixie, and Hek are the systems serving as the biggest trade hubs in the game right now


How are prices in the areas respectively? Is there a site that I can use to compare prices?


I use this site. https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/marketdisplay.php


Jita = The Forge
Amarr = Domain
Dodixie = Sinq Laison
Rens = Heimatar
Hek = Metropolis

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"

Anddo
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-06-18 19:45:33 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Anddo wrote:
Jita, Amarr, Rens, Dodixie, and Hek are the systems serving as the biggest trade hubs in the game right now


How are prices in the areas respectively? Is there a site that I can use to compare prices?


Jita is the biggest hub by far, always having 1,500 people-ish in it at once time. You want to be careful in trade hubs, though, because a lot of people will shoot/pod you when you try to dock or undock for the fun of it. Make dock/undock bookmarks at the hubs.

docking BM = bookmark the station at 0, warp to your bookmark and then dock. Simply selecting the station and clicking dock lands your 2,500m away from the station, and in the few seconds it takes you to fly that distance, someone can easily kill you.

undock bookmark = undock in a cheap ship, set max speed and just fly out for 700k or so without adjusting your angle of flight. When you undock, warp to that BM immediately. In the time it takes you to align to a gate/planet in a place like Jita, someone can easily kill you.


It's also important to know you're paying for one training queue and three characters per account. you can start a new character on a second character slot, never train skills and have them sit in a place like Jita to watch prices.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-06-18 22:36:42 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Hello there,

Should I be waiting until

No!

You should never be waiting for anything in Eve. If you are waiting for skills to train then you are playing eve wrong.

Do what ever you enjoy doing. If you came in here and asked a question like "do you have any tips on how to keep ships longer in WH's" or something like that which is more of a question of how to do what it is that you have decided that you want to do or want to try then we could give you more accurate advice.

There are no "shoulds" in this game. Try everything, the things that you have fun doing, do more often and the things that you don't have fun doing, do less often.

A tech 1 cloak does not take long to train into. That would allow you the ability to sit in a safe spot cloaked and scan the system. You could go back and change up ships if you like or carry a mobile depot if you like and change fits so you can scan cloaked and then swap out to a combat fit. Of course the covert ops cloak will make things easier as will having friends. If you like scanning stuff down you might want to consider looking for a wormhole corp. It does not even have to be a corp that has a full time presence in WH space just a group of friends that goes on day trips.

Beyond the PvE there is all sorts of PvP fun that you can have in wormholes. If you think that you like scanning down PvE sites how do you think that you will like hunting PvP targets with combat probes in stead of core probes?

Anyway just food for thought. Welcome to Eve and fly it like you stole it.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Wanda Fayne
#15 - 2015-06-18 23:25:21 UTC
You might consider looking at some low sec systems for your data/relic hunting.

On your map overview, you can set different display options like "# of characters docked", "kill in last 24h", or "jumps in last 24h" to see how busy they are. Spend some time with your maps and learn the areas around you, you are an explorer after all!

One thing of note is that there are "island" systems that are nice to explore. These are low sec systems that are within high sec ones, that have no other pathway in/out of. Generally safer than the busier low sec connecting systems. Also try and avoid some of the Faction Warfare systems unless you are PvP aware, they typically have alot of combat and as a neutral you can/will be targetted by almost everyone!

Relic sites generally are more lucrative than Data sites. Given a choice, do the Relic sites first.

Happy exploring!

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Trahearn Voidgazer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-06-19 01:34:53 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Hello there,

Should I be waiting until

No!

You should never be waiting for anything in Eve. If you are waiting for skills to train then you are playing eve wrong.

Do what ever you enjoy doing. If you came in here and asked a question like "do you have any tips on how to keep ships longer in WH's" or something like that which is more of a question of how to do what it is that you have decided that you want to do or want to try then we could give you more accurate advice.

There are no "shoulds" in this game. Try everything, the things that you have fun doing, do more often and the things that you don't have fun doing, do less often.

A tech 1 cloak does not take long to train into. That would allow you the ability to sit in a safe spot cloaked and scan the system. You could go back and change up ships if you like or carry a mobile depot if you like and change fits so you can scan cloaked and then swap out to a combat fit. Of course the covert ops cloak will make things easier as will having friends. If you like scanning stuff down you might want to consider looking for a wormhole corp. It does not even have to be a corp that has a full time presence in WH space just a group of friends that goes on day trips.

Beyond the PvE there is all sorts of PvP fun that you can have in wormholes. If you think that you like scanning down PvE sites how do you think that you will like hunting PvP targets with combat probes in stead of core probes?

Anyway just food for thought. Welcome to Eve and fly it like you stole it.


Ok then, here are some of my questions:

1) Are there ways to improve the profit margins on selling the stuff you get from sites. For example, I found a wormhole that lead to a relic site w/ a black monolith, I successfully hacked 4/5 containers, and flew out. My inventory estimated the total value of something like 10-12 million isk. I went to sell it, and I got 8 million isk. Are there ways to get more value from the items, or should I just be looking for specific items to loot?

2) I get that cloaking is vital to exploration, and I'm training up to it. Only reason I'm not playing atm is because I'm taking classes and doing undergrad research, and that stuff takes time. (tangent over) What are some tips beyond cloaking that will help me be successful at not dying in wormholes/nullsec? Should I avoid certain areas or just keep going in balls deep like currently.

3) I am also working on getting able to fly the soe ships. Is it too early for me to worry about them? Should I be going for covert ops ships first instead?
Katarn Command
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-06-19 02:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarn Command
1) If you sell directly the sale goes to the highest available buyer (standing buy order on the market). There can be a considerable gap between the highest buy and sell orders. Try checking the current market for an item - in game you can rclick on it and check market details.

Buy orders are frequently set a lot lower than average sell orders and are aimed at people who just want to sell quickly instead of waiting (i.e. putting up your own sell orders at a more favorable price).

One other important thing is to look at how the price of any given item fluctuated in the past say month - that will give you a better idea of how that item is valued (there is a huge amount of factors influencing Eve's markets).

2) In null/low-sec - always pay attention to your local channel. Pull it off into a separate window so you don't loose track of it.
WH/0.0/Low - establish safe-spots first before doing any scanning in the system (and make more than 1).

Most importantly - learn to use the directional scanner constantly. Use it with settings from your overview tab (plenty of guides on that around) to quickly find out what is oging on around you. This is absolutely crucial in W-space as the local channel will tell you nothing unless someone actually chats in it (they won't). You use your d-scan in a WH initially to quickly find out if anyone is living there; afterwards you use it to scan around you constantly for ships suddenly popping up (and not just ships, often the first warning is seeing probes on d-scan).

One last thing I want to mention is that WHs generally have a very high number of sites of all kinds. If you pop into one and see only a few the chances are someone has run them recently so a) not much for you to find b) they might still be around.

3) SoE ships take a fair bit less in terms of SP to get into and have excellent bonuses for exploration. The downside being they are rather expensive especially for a newer player. I personally like the Astero due to it being very very fast and agile (read: properly fitted it's slippery as hell and stands a fair chance of making an escape... if luck is with you ;)).


ps. I almost forgot - like a previous poster said - for Null/Low-sec you need to learn to use the map with its filter settings to find out useful things about your potential destinations. But don't just look at ship/pod kills. Look at active pilots and jumps. The latter is frequently forgotten but can save you life because it can indicate fairly heavy traffic - in a case like that you might see no ship kills on the map and that could mislead you into believing the system is empty-ish.

Hope this helps you a bit o7.

KC
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#18 - 2015-06-19 03:04:39 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:
Juan Diolosa wrote:
Personally, I would not enter wormholes doing exploration without a covert ops capable ship.

However, let me ask you this:

* Did you make enough ISK to offset your loss?


More than enough. So far I have lost 2 Herons with minimalist derp fittings. ( I'm not proud, I'll admit I suck at fitting). At most that probably cost me 1 million. I sold the loot I got from a single wormhole relic site for about 8 million. My margins have been decent, but I want to make them better.

Juan Diolosa wrote:
* Did you have fun, despite getting blown up and podded?


The first time: yes. I talked to the guy afterwards in private chat and he gave my around 2 million isk for my trouble and his amusement. Last night I'll admit that I was frustrated, because I had trained up my scanning skills a fair amount from where I had started, and failed to pin down a high-sec data site. Then I went into a wormhole a system away and recieved suprise b*tt-s*x from a tengu with no chance for lube. I admit that one was entirely my fault since I was parked right next to the wormhole with no cloak and unaligned. Honestly, looking back from hindsight I find it a bit funny myself. Big smile


You'll be fine - continue doing what's working for now. Welcome to EVE.

Smile
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-06-19 03:11:47 UTC
Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:


Ok then, here are some of my questions:

1) Are there ways to improve the profit margins on selling the stuff you get from sites. For example, I found a wormhole that lead to a relic site w/ a black monolith, I successfully hacked 4/5 containers, and flew out. My inventory estimated the total value of something like 10-12 million isk. I went to sell it, and I got 8 million isk. Are there ways to get more value from the items, or should I just be looking for specific items to loot?


Short answer yes. Long answer the market is an aspect of this game that is a game in and of it's self. As a general rule you can either selling something quickly and / or with little effort or you can sell stuff for max profits but with more effort / waiting.

This is a game which to me means it should all be about max fun. If you want to boil it down to max isk / hour because that is fun for you then you have to weight the amount of time spent selling stuff versus if you sold it a little cheaper and spent more time exploring.

As far as the kind of specific exploration tips that you are asking about there are guides out there that tell you what you are looking to find out. I will not tell you here because I don't support the practice and don't want to spread the teachings myself however I've stop exploring mostly due to what I'm not telling you so it does not effect me. You do as you please I just don't want to be complicit in it.

Something else worth noting is that the containers with the better loot I believe are harder to hack. So ships with hacking bonuses and rigs and / or modules that improve your hacking strength will improve your odds of successfully hacking them and thus greatly improve your chances of getting the big isk value items. There is some skill involved in hacking as well. Again watch videos on it to find out. An example would be that if a can has a very expensive module in it then your chances of hacking it successfully with low virus strength are not good. However a can with crappy low isk value stuff will be very easy for you to hack. So you are more likely to fail when hacking high value stuff or at least that is how I understand it. Someone can correct me if I am wrong on that.

Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:

2) I get that cloaking is vital to exploration, and I'm training up to it. Only reason I'm not playing atm is because I'm taking classes and doing undergrad research, and that stuff takes time. (tangent over) What are some tips beyond cloaking that will help me be successful at not dying in wormholes/nullsec? Should I avoid certain areas or just keep going in balls deep like currently.

I was not saying that cloaking is vital to exploration. I don't believe that it is. It just makes exploration less stressful. My point was that if you would like to have a cloak that the training for one is not that long. The T2 version does take a bit longer as well as the T2 ships that use them.

Again I was not trying to guilt you into training for it nor imply that you should. Only that if you wanted to that a T1 cloak is not a long train.

Trahearn Voidgazer wrote:

3) I am also working on getting able to fly the soe ships. Is it too early for me to worry about them? Should I be going for covert ops ships first instead?

The SoE ships are very powerful. They are also very expensive compared to their T1 and even T2 counterparts. I can not say this enough; there is no right or wrong way to play eve. I will say things like "if you are waiting on skills to train you are playing eve wrong" the only reason that might even be remotely correct is because waiting is not playing.

Eve is a game about decisions and consequences. There is no magic "easy win" or "flavor of the month" class that is clearly superior to all the rest. Every ship, every module, every skill has it's strengths and weaknesses. I can not tell you what you should do nor how you should play this game. It's a sandbox. If Eve were a scripted, linear, theme park style MMO that was more like an interactive movie than a game about exploration, combat and discovery then I could tell you things like "what is the fastest way to get to 100" or "what is the best healing spec" etc... However those things do not exist in this game.

From time to time you will find some PvPers that whine that Ewar is OP. I am of the opinion, mostly from watching the ATs in recent years, that those are the people that just want to brawl and having to fit a module that does anything other than increase EHP or DPS is just too difficult for them. ECM has a counter it's called ECCM and Backup Arrays. However to fit those modules costs you slots that could be used for more EHP and DPS. In some situations you will be glad that you fit them. In others it will cost you a ship.

TL;dr
don't worry about "shoulds" or "supposed tos". Play the game, have fun, and do more of what you like.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#20 - 2015-06-19 08:44:32 UTC
Don't wait for x before you do y, that way lies boredom.

A covert ops cloak will increase your survivability dramatically but the skills you learn by keeping yourself alive without one will have a much much larger effect, those are player skill and are what set competent pilots from incompetent ( and believe me there's plenty of incompetent veterans ).

Sounds like you're doing well for yourself.
if you have the isk for it the quickest covert ops train is the Astro the minimum requirements are gallente and amarr frigate 3 for the hull ,CPU Management 4 and cloaking 4 for the cloak,with learning implants you can be in one (from day one) in about a week.

It's expensive for a frigate though at between 60-70 million isk depending upon where you buy it's a big investment for a newbie so maby think of it as a goal.
I highly recommend it though , it's always the first ship I train as new alt into.
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