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Industry, Trading and Business

Author
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-16 07:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jordon Wallace
Could I get some help with information and resources in regards to Manufacturing, Research and Trading, I am brand new to this. I would like to get involved in all those aspects of the game but I don't know where to start to be honest, can a newbro still become successful in all these fields?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2015-06-16 08:13:50 UTC
buy low, sell high. is the simple form. Buy low, move goods, sell high is a slightly more complex version.

buy minerals low, produce, sell stuff high is a slightly more complex, maybe more or maybe less profitable version. it varies as other players spot opportunity they will move in on the market lowering or even eliminating profits.

research is mostly instal job, go afk for up to a month, deliver repeat. although the 10% savings on materials is usually worth it. and the time efficiency research is nice too as you can get more jobs in the same period of time.

all are pretty easy to get into as the skill barriers have been reduced or eliminated in most cases. t2 manufacturing is a bit more specialized so requires more skills. the biggest problem is deciding on what to produce. many items are just not profitable to make, and most people aren't willing to tell you what is good, as that will cut into their profits. trading is really easy to get into, just level up trade and start managing orders. most of my early training was done on a character with no SP, outside of starting skills and a few 100k sp in trade.

for more info there is a science and industry forum, as well as a market discussion forum.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Haruchai Khan
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-06-16 08:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruchai Khan
I'm new to the game myself, and I've found some excellent resources at the Eve University site.

They have a trading guide for example. I have not been attracted to run an industry/trade character but the market interface is very interesting, and the economy looks a fascinating construct. If it's your cup of tea, I think watching the market closely for a little while will give you lost of insight.

Broadly, there's lots of people like me that fight and die, that need stuff in a hurry. We're not too picky on price (to sell or buy) so there's lots of opportunity for an eagle eyed opportunist to buy stuff we have collected and sold, and sell it on at a better price in a different place. Or to make stuff so we can blow it up. Smile

As long as you have a bit of capital to start, you can make more as a newbie if you have the patience I, for example, lack.

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-06-16 10:51:39 UTC
Ammo is a good place to start. get an ammo BPO that it looks like you can make isk on. Research it a little bit and then do some manufacturing.

In that process you will learn the basics of manufacturing and setting up a job. Once you've done that you'll have so more specific questions that you can look up answers to or come back here and ask again. Keep in mind that manufacturing has been reworked so some of the guides that are older will not be exact info. The basics will still be similar but double check before you use any of the numbers for calculations.

The hardest part within the industrial side of eve is figuring out what to produce and where to produce it. Eve is a player driven economy and if you were to ask another player what he produces for isk and then you started making what he was and selling in the same area then your added supply to the local market would drive down prices and reduce the ability of both yourself and the other person to make isk. So others can give you advice on what things to look for and how to do market analysis but no one else can tell you "go build rifters and sell them at Jita" for example. So you'll need to learn how to find your own markets

However like I said ammo is pretty cheap to get into and usually have very good margins because the production time versus isk made ratio is low on ammo and since you only have so many production slots many vets stick to higher priced items that while they may have lower margins due to the higher price range have greater net gains.

I could go much deeper than this into it but if I did most of it would probably not make sense to you at this point. Once you have a feel for it and have at least tried the manufacturing and research UIs you will be much more able to have productive conversations on the topic.

Another good tip is to read stuff in game. Eve is not a game that you can just click through interfaces etc... Read the trade and industry skill descriptions. Read the various tabs on the BPO's info UI. Hover over things in the industry UI and read what it says. Read and pay attention don't skim. If you just read descriptions you'll be able to figure out most of manufacturing.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#5 - 2015-06-16 15:30:47 UTC
Memphis Baas
#6 - 2015-06-16 20:46:27 UTC
It's all trading, by the way.

As you'll see in the guides, manufacturing is done by installing blueprints (copies or originals) into factory slots and then providing all the necessary raw materials for the manufacturing job to run. Tech 1 items and ships only require the base minerals (tritanium, pyerite, etc.), whereas tech 2 ships and items require advanced materials which have to be manufactured themselves first. As suggested above, you should get started with a tech 1 product that gets sold a lot, which is why ammo was suggested. Ships and the various modules may or may not go very fast, but everyone uses ammo (more or less).

Invention is a way to get Tech 2 blueprints (copies) so that you can then manufacture Tech 2 ships and modules. The "invention" process is similar to a manufacturing process: you put in a tech 1 blueprint copy, plus some datacores and other materials to increase you chances of success, and you hopefully get a tech 2 blueprint copy.

Research is simply improving the blueprints that you have so they produce faster or with reduced raw mats waste. Research can only be done on blueprint originals, so you're limited to the Tech 1 originals you can buy from the market.

Ultimately, though, unless you're the guy in charge of supplying a whole bunch of your corp mates with ships and modules, manufacturing, the point of manufacturing, invention, and research is to make a profit, so it really comes down to being able to negotiate getting those minerals at lower prices than what you see in Jita (talk to some of the miners, get them straight from the source), and being able to sell your products for a profit (if you move your products closer to war zones or to 0.0 you can often get higher prices than Jita).

Bottom line, though, you could spend a couple years training industry skills to 5 and building an impressive collection of blueprints, if you don't do the business talking and negotiating and dealmaking (the trading), it'll be pointless. Because you can't manufacture for a loss.
Memphis Baas
#7 - 2015-06-16 20:50:32 UTC
The other thing that I want to add is: the industry is designed "for an MMO", you won't be able to "do everything" by yourself. Unlike "crafting" in other games, there are several levels of production in EVE, especially for Tech 2 and Tech 3 ships and modules, where the resources you need come from high sec, null, AND wormhole space, and you are limited with the number of things you can do even with 3 alts per account.

So you'll need to find a niche of production (hopefully something profitable), and stick to just that.
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-06-16 22:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jordon Wallace
I have been doing some Station Trading while my skills are training into both fields, Dodixie is the hub I have been using so far. I spend several hours a day updating buy and sell orders, and I am quite active would anyone suggest I setup shop anywhere else? I did consider Jita but I was reservant as I heard it is notorious for market bots.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#9 - 2015-06-16 22:28:50 UTC
A good place to start: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Industry_Overview

Includes a good overview with links to other articles and courses offered by the university. Be cautious of any information you find online that is more than a year old - industry had changed a lot in the past year.

I started by making and selling small rigs. The blueprints are inexpensive and only take a few days to research, you can usually find small quantities of salvage at low prices if you are willing to shop around and demand for the products is high. You don't need a lot of capital to get started and an exploration frigate has plenty of cargo space

Be sure to do some market research using the price history tab in the regional market app to check the sales volume and price cycle of things you are considering.
Tybur Kan
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-06-16 22:54:44 UTC
I'm dabbling in market stuff myself. Remember that what's happening under all the numbers is you doing something or acquiring something that someone else wants and them indirectly tipping you for it while others compete to do the same for less. I find it's possible to sell the things I buy in a big market station out where I explore at some of the more popular yet far-flung places. I've experimented with bringing some ammo and cheap implants out and they've all been selling, slowly but surely, for a nice little profit. The cool part is, the more you learn about the game in general, the more you get insights into what people want to buy and therefor what to trade. It's a mind-bogglingly-meta part of the game which I think is fantastic. If not for exploration being my first fascination, I'd be going strait up the trade skills branch now.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-06-16 23:15:24 UTC
What Memphis said is excellent advice. I'd like to add to what he said.

Memphis Baas wrote:

Invention is a way to get Tech 2 blueprints (copies) so that you can then manufacture Tech 2 ships and modules.

Tech 2 ammo is also an excellent way to get into tech 2 production just like tech 1 ammo is a good place to start with tech 1 manufacturing. It's cheap enough and sells well enough that you can make some without tying up a whole bunch of isk on a learning process and also without risking loosing much.

Memphis Baas wrote:

Bottom line, though, you could spend a couple years training industry skills to 5 and building an impressive collection of blueprints, if you don't do the business talking and negotiating and dealmaking (the trading), it'll be pointless. Because you can't manufacture for a loss.

There are a lot of situations where you are going to wonder how your competition can afford to produce at a loss. Negotiating and dealmaking certainly are extremely helpful. However an inability to do either does not lock you out of manufacturing. You can make isk buying materials from the market and building to sell. You have to look around and do some research but you can make isk at it.

Memphis Baas wrote:
The other thing that I want to add is: the industry is designed "for an MMO", you won't be able to "do everything" by yourself. Unlike "crafting" in other games, there are several levels of production in EVE, especially for Tech 2 and Tech 3 ships and modules, where the resources you need come from high sec, null, AND wormhole space, and you are limited with the number of things you can do even with 3 alts per account.

So you'll need to find a niche of production (hopefully something profitable), and stick to just that.

This again is wonderful advice. I'd like to clarify that you can produce pretty much anything in game by yourself from a theoretical stand point. I once built myself a Jump Freighter from scratch and I believe that is the only tech 2 capital ship in game. However I could not do that repeatedly and make isk that would make the time investment worth while. I did it just for the challenge of doing it. When it comes to things like supers and outposts you need an entire Alliance to support your efforts or you will most certainly loose all of your materials.

So I was just looking to clarify that when Memphis said that ""you won't be able to "do everything" by yourself."", there is no game mechanic preventing you from doing so. It's interactions with other players that are the stumbling block. I'm sure you could go on SiSi (one of Eve's test servers) and build outposts and supers by yourself all day long. On TQ however someone will come kick down your sand castle.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-06-17 23:10:48 UTC
So I have managed so far to acure around 100 million, a lot of that is tied up in escrow for my orders though. I am slowly expanding my operation and looking at increasing efficiencies. One program that has been suggested to me is Elinor.

Do you guys know what programs are legal to use for EVE in regards to CCP's terms of service and so fourth and which ones I should stay away from?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2015-06-17 23:30:06 UTC
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-06-18 18:49:33 UTC
So I have been doing agent missions for the Caldari Navy to decrease my market fees in Jita is this the right entity to be doing it for or is it the Caldari Faction that matters?
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#15 - 2015-06-18 21:05:20 UTC
Caldari Navy for the Jita 4-4 station Aseembly Plant - yes.

There are also four other major trade hubs in New Eden, which are all on separate faction/corp stations.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2015-06-18 21:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jordon Wallace wrote:
So I have been doing agent missions for the Caldari Navy to decrease my market fees in Jita is this the right entity to be doing it for or is it the Caldari Faction that matters?

Market fees depend on two things:
* Your standing with the corp.
* Your standing with the corp's faction.

Accepting storyline missions for Caldari Navy will make the Gallente hate you, and the Minmatar dislike you. Similarly for player faction kill missions. Note that Sisters of EVE storylines is a great way to regain Gallente standing, if you want to.

Of course, you can just raise Caldari Navy if you decline all storyline missions and all faction kill missions. Example of no faction standing

Also don't forget about the Broker Relations and Accounting skills Blink
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-06-18 21:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jordon Wallace
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Jordon Wallace wrote:
So I have been doing agent missions for the Caldari Navy to decrease my market fees in Jita is this the right entity to be doing it for or is it the Caldari Faction that matters?

Market fees depend on two things:
* Your standing with the corp.
* Your standing with the corp's faction.

Accepting storyline missions for Caldari Navy will make the Gallente hate you, and the Minmatar dislike you. Similarly for player faction kill missions. Note that Sisters of EVE storylines is a great way to regain Gallente standing, if you want to.

Of course, you can just raise Caldari Navy if you decline all storyline missions and all faction kill missions. Example of no faction standing

Also don't forget about the Broker Relations and Accounting skills Blink


Doesn't that also have the reverse effect of making the Caldari State like me more? Just doing a cost-benefit analysis. I will be trading in Jita and Amarr mainly.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#18 - 2015-06-18 21:54:45 UTC
Jordon Wallace wrote:
I have been doing some Station Trading while my skills are training into both fields, Dodixie is the hub I have been using so far. I spend several hours a day updating buy and sell orders, and I am quite active would anyone suggest I setup shop anywhere else? I did consider Jita but I was reservant as I heard it is notorious for market bots.
Consider looking at the prices in mission hubs within 5 jumps of Dodixie, you'll often be able to place buy orders for mission loot there and sell at a profit in Dodixie. I do the same close to another trade hub with a 3 jump buy radius and do pretty well out of it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#19 - 2015-06-19 02:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jordon Wallace wrote:
Doesn't that also have the reverse effect of making the Caldari State like me more? Just doing a cost-benefit analysis. I will be trading in Jita and Amarr mainly.

You'll be fine then.

For every standing gain with Caldari, you will lose 50% with Gallente, and 20% with Minmatar.

When you drop to -5.0 or lower, you won't be welcome in Gallente or Minmatar space; their navies will fire upon you.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5393284#post5393284
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5789474#post5789474
Jordon Wallace
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-06-19 18:04:31 UTC
Question on that note standing gains reduce my broke fees however does having a faction or corporation hate you increase your broker fees?
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