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Question on Heavy Drone use

Author
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-06-08 04:12:37 UTC
Ok first - my char, been my char since I started him. Over 131 million SP and I've been around since 2009.

I used to use Heavy drones a long time back - rarely but I never bothered to take that skill all the way to 5. Recently I've been looking at my skills while wondering why the hell I might want to train that one up to 5.

I can use fighters and all small & medium drones. I have T2 sentries available... I can't think of a situation where I'd favor heavy drones over sentries or other types.

Theory crafting I can come up with a spot here or there but not for real planning and use.

As such - I figured I'd ask: Who uses these regularly and what for?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2015-06-08 07:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
One word: Gecko.

Also, Rattlesnake.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-06-08 07:49:16 UTC
So buy the rare heavy and stick with a rattlesnake - which can field 1 of them at a time?

Interesting argument.
Faenir Antollare
Infinite Violence
Trigger Happy.
#4 - 2015-06-08 09:54:15 UTC
It might not answer your question but I personally find the use of Heavy Drones whilst ratting in Null to be an absolute boon, the 5% increased dmg per level combined with the heavy drone racial spec itself, really does cut down on site completion time.
Depending on the time used in such activities kinda dictates it usefullness as a time sink and for me personally it has been a sink well worth engaging with.

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife

Kithran
#5 - 2015-06-08 11:24:28 UTC
If you are engaging a stationary target that heavies can reach they do more damage than sentries (even before the sentry damage nerf) once they have reached the target. If you are moving you can keep heavies deployed whereas you'd have to scoop sentries.

Heavies are used in hq incursion fleets (as they tend to be mobile and two of the three main site types involve bashing a stationary tower) whereas sentries see some use in vg fleets (as they are often stationary and involve lots of smaller hp targets).
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2015-06-08 17:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Mocam wrote:
So buy the rare heavy and stick with a rattlesnake - which can field 1 of them at a time?

Interesting argument.

A Gecko does more damage (>2x) and has more EHP (>4x) than other heavies, then the 3.75 multiplier of the Rattlesnake is applied to both damage and EHP. This makes for a really hard hitting drone that does all damage types (other heavies do one damage type), and with an impressive tank.

Also, if you rep your drones (I do), you only have to lock and worry about one drone.

Other ships can field Geckos as well, of course. Even Rorquals and carriers, but an Ishtar or Eos or Dominix can only use two with one normal heavy.

As for Gecko rarity, I personally own about 50 or so of them, and there are many on the market (though the price recently spiked as people are gearing-up for the next AT, which also draws speculators).
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#7 - 2015-06-08 18:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Heavies = mobility.
I think mine do 315 base damage, and I get to fly where ever I want and then recall them.
Much more useful than Sentries imo.

Not sure if I ever paid for a sentry drone.... I found all the ones I own on gates or stations, because pilots left them behind.


Edit for usage:
Mostly in PvP on BS or BC fights. I load them in hulls like the Navy Geddon, Typhoon, Megathron. Again, for big slow targets.
Almost any other targets I use Hobs first, or ECM drones, depends on the engagement. Hammerheads in some of my BC fits.
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-06-09 13:46:08 UTC
Mocam wrote:
So buy the rare heavy and stick with a rattlesnake - which can field 1 of them at a time?

Interesting argument.


The Rattlesnake using Gecko is the bomb P

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"

Khanid Voltar
#9 - 2015-06-09 16:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanid Voltar
Whether or not you train to use T2 is up to you of course, but all I can say is

1. It is a rank 5 skill and you have 131m sp. Assuming you are a PVP/E pilot then within the next year or 2 you will wind up doing it just because it is one of the shortest skills left you have to do.

2. If and when a situation does arise that you need to use them, you wont want to have to wait 2-3 weeks for it to train.

Saying that, I have never used a T2 heavy drone on this char and I haven't found it to be any great disadvantage

[edit] not really sure why people are saying gecko's as the reason to train it to L5, since the Gecko is T1 and only requires the skill to L1. Obviously there is that 5% per level, but that's pretty much the same with all T1 weapon systems, and if you don't want the pain of training it to L5, you could easily do it to L4 to no massive disadvantage.
Natalia Abre-Kai
#10 - 2015-06-10 02:17:16 UTC
Eos + nav comp + geckos = awesome
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-06-12 23:40:59 UTC
Khanid Voltar wrote:
Whether or not you train to use T2 is up to you of course, but all I can say is

1. It is a rank 5 skill and you have 131m sp. Assuming you are a PVP/E pilot then within the next year or 2 you will wind up doing it just because it is one of the shortest skills left you have to do.

2. If and when a situation does arise that you need to use them, you wont want to have to wait 2-3 weeks for it to train.

Saying that, I have never used a T2 heavy drone on this char and I haven't found it to be any great disadvantage

[edit] not really sure why people are saying gecko's as the reason to train it to L5, since the Gecko is T1 and only requires the skill to L1. Obviously there is that 5% per level, but that's pretty much the same with all T1 weapon systems, and if you don't want the pain of training it to L5, you could easily do it to L4 to no massive disadvantage.


I might go that route eventually but I'm looking at what I'm aimed at and the heavies aren't something I've used in a couple years. As you say I will eventually run out of stuff ("eventually" looking like some point around 180m or so - friggn keep finding stuff going "that'd be cool to bring up..." *snicker*)

Right now I'm pushing up some drone skills a little bit farther (off-map training) - it's been a neglected area for quite some time due to mappings and what I've been pursuing but that is a skill I look at and wonder about.

I have full 5's for armor resists but only 4's on shield resists being as those help passive but not active and an invul is active while an EANM is passive, ... meh. "probably get to it later"...

The arguments based upon a gecko... Remember mining drones in the long ago? There were the ones you could loot from convoys and they flooded the market early on and were plentiful for years on end- mass quantities of them were out there that just slowly disappeared over time being as nobody was hitting convoys anymore.

The Gecko is just a specialty item that will keep climbing in price if a BP isn't released for it. (one might be - it is one of the few "gifts" that has seen huge use vs just hangar storage).

It just seems to be a niche/specialty skill but the discussion here has helped see where the skill is used.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2015-06-13 01:08:31 UTC
Mocam wrote:
It just seems to be a niche/specialty skill but the discussion here has helped see where the skill is used.

Don't be misled by the Gecko & Rattlesnake discussion. It is not the only usage for heavy drones.

Example: Heavy Ogre II drones, last I checked anyway, were higher DPS than sentries, and great for small-gang PvP.

Like all skills in EVE, if you don't need it, then don't train it.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-06-13 14:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Mocam wrote:
It just seems to be a niche/specialty skill but the discussion here has helped see where the skill is used.

Don't be misled by the Gecko & Rattlesnake discussion. It is not the only usage for heavy drones.

Example: Heavy Ogre II drones, last I checked anyway, were higher DPS than sentries, and great for small-gang PvP.

Like all skills in EVE, if you don't need it, then don't train it.


It's mentioned above how it's used at times when mobility is needed but that's a fairly rare setup. Better using smaller drones to mess with all targets vs the heavies which are best suited to mess with other big ships. It works but it's limited.

For fast delivery of damage a sentry is superior being as it immediately starts to deliver damage vs flying to a target first - the old argument about using sentries for PVE comes out on this one.

Only when using specific drone boats do they now come into play and most such setups see fairly limited use. (PvP style - PvE style - still popular but Sentries > heavies mostly for PvE use - sans the Gecko)

As for smaller gangs - that's usually smaller ships best using medium drones vs a full battleship drone boat. Mediums deliver their DPS much more consistently than the heavies and work OK for frigates on up to battleships.

Again, I do see the niche potential but the skill does seem to not be as broadly applicable as sentries for heavier engagements or just keeping mediums around.
Khanid Voltar
#14 - 2015-06-13 15:35:34 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Remember mining drones in the long ago? There were the ones you could loot from convoys and they flooded the market early on and were plentiful for years on end- mass quantities of them were out there that just slowly disappeared over time being as nobody was hitting convoys anymore.


Harvester drones IIRC
Talurion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-06-24 23:57:48 UTC
When u are not posbashing ishtar fleet since sentry nerf.
Carefull if ze enemyes haz smartbombs.

It is now pl/n3, not PL/N3 (sacrificed all their caps)

Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-06-25 03:18:23 UTC
use T2 heavy drones with ishtar you can do afk ratting, except with neut rat like blood raider......if you go against other rat it's like very low effor high isk making, just be sure what damage type you need to use

ratting with 5 heavy drone T2 with the damage resist hole for rat is better than using gecko which deal omni damage, paper dps 2 geckoes + 2 medium + 1 light is better than 5 heavy, but in the real isk/tick it's actually better using 5 heavy drones
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#17 - 2015-06-25 20:16:23 UTC
I do my fair share of drone boat flying in both pve and pvp.. and I honestly can't see a single reason to train heavy drones to 5 as they don't really get used that much. There are far more other arbitrary skills that could be trained to 5. Guess it depends what you do ???, and pvp doesn't appear to be your main activity.
I would probably train the skills for extra LP/rewards from missions before i did heavy drones to 5, maybe even train the new T3 destroyers to 5. I hardly ever mine but would probably train for t2 mining crystals before I did heavy drones 5.. hehe, sorry, not much help

... What next ??

Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#18 - 2015-06-28 21:27:09 UTC
Heavy drones are useful for brawling drone boats where sentries would not track close targets.

5% DPS is significant, especially on a 131M SP toon.

As mentioned they also do quite a bit more damage than sentries even pre-nerfs, and t2 heavies are cheaper than faction drones. If you ever engage in any kind of solo/small gang pvp in cruiser or larger hulls, heavy drones with max DPS is essential.

All other things being equal if you fight another drone boat and he has full skilled T2 heavies vs. your lvl 4 faction heavies, you lose.