These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Introducing the soloist module: No fleet? No help? No problem.

Author
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-04-15 06:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
This has been an idea in my head for a while and I'd like to share it here for the forum's consideration. This idea isn't really intended to fix any problems with the game, merely only to give players some interesting choices with benefits, drawbacks, and to stimulate players new to soloing to try something out of their comfort zone.

The central concept is that the solo module would essentially be a variant of the damage control that prevents a ship to which it is equipped from joining a fleet, or receiving remote assistance in exchange for powerful benefits, in addition to performing the same function as the damage control. I've chosen the damage control over other modules because it's use on PVP fit ships is fairly, though not completely, ubiquitous and it's use would interfere with current ship fits less than other choices. For clarity no ship with this module should be allowed to un-dock while in fleet and refitting from a depot, carrier or other means would be prohibited while in a fleet.

Originally, when I had first conceived of this idea, I intended to lay out all of the benefits that a player would be receiving by being part of a fleet and what 'fleet' benefits can be emulated by out of fleet tactics. I think though, that most players that read these forums understand fleet mechanics well enough that it isn't necessary and it would just be pedantic and wordy. I will comment though, that many of the things we like to think of as fleet mechanics, can be emulated by other tactics. The warp to fleet member function comes to mind, in lieu of this, one might simply drop a piece of ammo in a can for someone to warp to. This tactic, while it can achieve the same result, is much more limited, and far less efficient in terms of attention and the total number of actions committed to achieve a desired result; I've found this to be the case with other mechanics- the absence of a fleet in multiplayer or multiboxing situations really does seem to be a very strong limiting factor to leverage balance.

The intent is for a solo player or very small gang to chose between having a scout/links/probes, the possibility of effective backup or the other benefits of a fleet, and some unique, powerful buffs that suit the needs of a player expecting to fight without help. Ideally as gang size increased beyond just a few players, the pressure to be able to act in a coordinated fashion would push players harder and harder toward having to form a formal fleet.

I anticipate that a few players will say that EVE is not a solo game or that all players fundamentally have access to booster alts; I agree. EVE isn't a solo game or a game intended to be played wholly with other players- it's a sandbox that supports all kinds of game-play and that's something I think should be cultivated. I don't want to obsolete booster alts or fleet PVP: I want to add another layer to the sandbox.

Power-creep is another concern I wish to address before proceeding. I don't think that this module would contribute strongly to power-creep because, if tuned correctly, its utilization would not be ubiquitous. The concept of trading one kind of power for another is important here also, like the bastion module, its buffs should be paid for by its drawbacks. As for mission and site completion times, I think that there are enough 'fluff' actions that players have to take in each site or mission that this module wouldn't significantly improve completion times. In low or null, it may be that the utilization of such a module would be another choice that a player has to make: be ready to summon backup more easily, or eek out a few more isk per hour?

So what kind of bonuses should the soloist module provide? My own preference (just one of many possibilities,) is that it should give less powerful, but more general buffs compared to what a tech three or command ship booster can provide. We might consider range, DPS, capacitor, warp speed, cargo capacity, power-grid and CPU, overheating mechanics, or totally new mechanisms in addition or in exchange with command-like bonuses. The possibilities are endless. It all hinges on what CCP deems that being in a fleet and receiving remote assistance is worth.

I think that this would open up new possibilities for a big part of the player base, get people interested in new types of game-play, make small scale PVP more accessible to new people, and make players feel like they've got more of a chance going up against a gang, or another player with links- all without removing old styles of game-play. It fits CCPs narrative of all gang sizes and compositions having their strengths and weaknesses.

I'd love to hear what other players think, why this is a bad or good idea, how it could be improved, what you'd like to see in such a module, or maybe if you've got a better idea. Please read and comment, I want to see this idea evolve with your help. Thanks.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2015-04-15 06:20:47 UTC

I do have a quick question


if i can't dock with this mod fit and i can't refit from a mobile depo or a SMB am i supposed to be forced to use a POS to unfit it? or am i just supposed to leave the ship in space?



overall while your idea is wordy it doesn't have a lot of meat to it I'm not even 100% sure what it is your want with this mod
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-04-15 06:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

I do have a quick question


if i can't dock with this mod fit and i can't refit from a mobile depo or a SMB am i supposed to be forced to use a POS to unfit it? or am i just supposed to leave the ship in space?



overall while your idea is wordy it doesn't have a lot of meat to it I'm not even 100% sure what it is your want with this mod


You can dock with it, you'd just be unable to undock while in a fleet.

The quick version is that you equip a module that forces solo play, in exchange you get a slightly more powerful ship.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-04-15 06:43:28 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

I do have a quick question


if i can't dock with this mod fit and i can't refit from a mobile depo or a SMB am i supposed to be forced to use a POS to unfit it? or am i just supposed to leave the ship in space?



overall while your idea is wordy it doesn't have a lot of meat to it I'm not even 100% sure what it is your want with this mod


You can dock with it, you'd just be unable to dock while in a fleet.

The quick version is that you equip a module that forces solo play, in exchange you get a slightly more powerful ship.




Hold up


your saying that I would no longer be able to dock or refit in space while in a fleet?







this gets a huge -1 if that's the case
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-04-15 07:00:26 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

I do have a quick question


if i can't dock with this mod fit and i can't refit from a mobile depo or a SMB am i supposed to be forced to use a POS to unfit it? or am i just supposed to leave the ship in space?



overall while your idea is wordy it doesn't have a lot of meat to it I'm not even 100% sure what it is your want with this mod


You can dock with it, you'd just be unable to dock while in a fleet.

The quick version is that you equip a module that forces solo play, in exchange you get a slightly more powerful ship.




Hold up


your saying that I would no longer be able to dock or refit in space while in a fleet?







this gets a huge -1 if that's the case


You would not be using this module for fleet play, that's the point of the module. It prevents you from joining a fleet or receiving remote assistance while it's equipped. In addition, you're not able to equip the module to an active ship while you're a member of a fleet.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2015-04-15 07:15:38 UTC
FT Cold wrote:


You would not be using this module for fleet play, that's the point of the module. It prevents you from joining a fleet or receiving remote assistance while it's equipped. In addition, you're not able to equip the module to an active ship while you're a member of a fleet.


so why can't i dock when in a fleet then?
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#7 - 2015-04-15 07:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
so... siege/bastion module for Garmur?

Lol

also, nothing stopping people from flying together anyway.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#8 - 2015-04-15 07:25:29 UTC
The thing is you claim it bars scouts... Now in my experiance scouts are just guys running ahead of the fleet yelling about targets on comms!

QUICK EVERYONE GET U-SUXX I HAVE A CARRIER TACKLED...

And then everyone piles into u-suxx, sure they cant broadcast now but i dont see how "scouts" specifically would be blocked if everyone has a the beta map open in a window or something...
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-04-15 07:35:28 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
so... siege/bastion module for Garmur?

Lol

also, nothing stopping people from flying together anyway.


I don't really think that in a balanced form it would be as powerful as siege or bastion. The general idea is that it should be balanced more closely towards links,with more general but less powerful bonuses.

No, it doesn't prevent people from flying together, it just denies some of the nice things about being in a fleet. Some of which are circumventable, some are not.
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-04-15 07:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
FireFrenzy wrote:
The thing is you claim it bars scouts... Now in my experiance scouts are just guys running ahead of the fleet yelling about targets on comms!

QUICK EVERYONE GET U-SUXX I HAVE A CARRIER TACKLED...

And then everyone piles into u-suxx, sure they cant broadcast now but i dont see how "scouts" specifically would be blocked if everyone has a the beta map open in a window or something...


No, it doesn't bar people from using scouts, it just makes them somewhat less easy to use- that's part of the flavor of the module.
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-04-15 07:40:08 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
FT Cold wrote:


You would not be using this module for fleet play, that's the point of the module. It prevents you from joining a fleet or receiving remote assistance while it's equipped. In addition, you're not able to equip the module to an active ship while you're a member of a fleet.


so why can't i dock when in a fleet then?


If you're using the module, you're not in a fleet, period. You can dock and undock normally. If you're not using the module, you can dock and undock normally. The only thing that you're prevented from doing is using this module when you're in a fleet.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2015-04-15 07:54:14 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
FT Cold wrote:


You would not be using this module for fleet play, that's the point of the module. It prevents you from joining a fleet or receiving remote assistance while it's equipped. In addition, you're not able to equip the module to an active ship while you're a member of a fleet.


so why can't i dock when in a fleet then?


If you're using the module, you're not in a fleet, period. You can dock and undock normally. If you're not using the module, you can dock and undock normally. The only thing that you're prevented from doing is using this module when you're in a fleet.


then what's the point of saying i can dock but there is nothing keeping me from docking?


and from reading further posts all i'm seeing is a mod that takes up a slot that gives me weak boosts to make up for the fact i don't have a booster alt/friend?

not sure that's worth the dev time
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-04-15 08:03:52 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

then what's the point of saying i can dock but there is nothing keeping me from docking?


and from reading further posts all i'm seeing is a mod that takes up a slot that gives me weak boosts to make up for the fact i don't have a booster alt/friend?

not sure that's worth the dev time


I never brought up docking, that's something you did in your first post, and to be honest I'm not sure why- I never mentioned anything about prohibiting a player from docking in my original post.

Yes, the module is designed to replace the damage control, perform it's function, and give additional bonuses that in some ways emulate the benefits you get from links. It's not the whole story though, it's about introducing a new dynamic to small scale pvp and to lower the bar of entry for people that do not have links.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-04-15 08:18:36 UTC
Any chance you could provide some more detailed example here? Some real case scenario.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-04-15 08:23:55 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Any chance you could provide some more detailed example here? Some real case scenario.


What aspect of the module would you like me to elaborate on?

I'm not sure if it helps, but I've deliberately left the exact bonuses and their strengths out because I wanted to concentrate on an overall design philosophy for the module.
Cade Windstalker
#16 - 2015-04-15 09:02:10 UTC
Eve is a team game, it should be incentivizing players to group up and play with others, not purposefully go solo over a group for some intrinsic benefit.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-04-15 09:39:39 UTC
While I tend to solo I don't see why this playstyle needs to be rewarded. This idea comes across as wanting benefits similar to being in a fleet, without the aggro of being in one.

I'm not marking down the idea, I merely think it's an odd concept.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#18 - 2015-04-15 10:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
FT Cold wrote:
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
so... siege/bastion module for Garmur?

Lol

also, nothing stopping people from flying together anyway.


I don't really think that in a balanced form it would be as powerful as siege or bastion. The general idea is that it should be balanced more closely towards links,with more general but less powerful bonuses.

No, it doesn't prevent people from flying together, it just denies some of the nice things about being in a fleet. Some of which are circumventable, some are not.

the best things about being in a fleet is flying with other people and communicating. a fleet only makes it more official.

my argument still stands.
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-04-15 17:11:51 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Eve is a team game, it should be incentivizing players to group up and play with others, not purposefully go solo over a group for some intrinsic benefit.


Eve is a sandbox game, of which solo is a part of. No player can or does play with other players all of the time.
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-04-15 17:14:46 UTC
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:
While I tend to solo I don't see why this playstyle needs to be rewarded. This idea comes across as wanting benefits similar to being in a fleet, without the aggro of being in one.

I'm not marking down the idea, I merely think it's an odd concept.


It's not rewarding any more than a solo player using links or a falcon alt right now.
123Next pageLast page