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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

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C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-04-01 22:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Confessor and Svipul in our April release.
We are extremely happy that so many people are having fun with these new ships and we are committed to keeping them powerful and exciting, but we ideally want that power and excitement to mainly come from the new mode switching mechanic, and less from the base stats of the ship outclassing its competition. At the moment these ships are a little bit too strong and provide a bit too much vale for their cost. We've been listening to a lot of feedback on these ships from many players (including at Fanfest) and we're ready to make a few tweaks.

[Updated]

Big thanks to everyone who has posted feedback about the first round of changes. We agree with the point that some of you were bringing up, that these first round of changes are a bit too harsh on long range weapon fits compared to short range weapon fits. A certain amount of added fitting pain for long range fits will be necessary, but long range weapon viability is a key part of the character of the tactical destroyers and it would be a shame to limit that more than absolutely necessary.

So we've come up with a second iteration of these changes, using a slightly more invasive set of adjustments. To reduce the impact of extremely high fittings while continuing to keep long range weapons competitive with short range weapons we are proposing a change to the turrets of the Confessor and Svipul. Both would lose 2 turrets (going to 4) but gain a new +50% damage role bonus to keep DPS the same. This allows us to reduce fittings significantly without harming long range fits as much, as the weapons will make a smaller percentage of the overall Powergrid and CPU consumption of the ships.

These new versions also include a mass reduction for the Svipul and a bit more speed reduction. Material requirement changes remain the same as in version one.


    Confessor:
  • New Role Bonus: +50% Small Energy Turret Damage
  • Highslots: 6 (-1)
  • Turrets: 4 (-2)
  • Powergrid: 62 (-18)
  • CPU: 180 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 235 (-45)
  • Mass: 2,000,000kg (-400,000)
  • Inertia: 2.7 (+0.55)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)

  • Svipul:
  • New Role Bonus: +50% Small Projectile Turret Damage
  • Highslots: 6 (-1)
  • Turrets: 4 (-2)
  • Powergrid: 59 (-19)
  • CPU: 205 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 230 (-60)
  • Mass: 1,500,000 (-400,000)
  • Inertia: 3.5 (+0.85)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)

Material Requirements:
+1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core

Like I said above, thanks to everyone who has participated in this feedback thread so far. We're very interested in hearing your thoughts about this second iteration of the changes.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

#2 - 2015-04-01 22:38:41 UTC
Should help

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

#3 - 2015-04-01 22:39:50 UTC
These are really small changes, I'm not sure what sort of effect it'll have yet on fitting but none of these changes seem to gimp the ships too much, (at a glance).
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2015-04-01 22:42:24 UTC
Excellent, I'm very glad the balance happened before the other two came out. It was getting ridiculous.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Spaceship Bebop
#5 - 2015-04-01 22:48:17 UTC
much needed. thanks.

now I'll read the particulars P

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-04-01 22:49:14 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
These are really small changes, I'm not sure what sort of effect it'll have yet on fitting but none of these changes seem to gimp the ships too much, (at a glance).


That's actually a larger hit than you think. These ships run on very narrow margins with the oversize modules they tend to fit.

Choices will have to be made.

Yaay!!!!

#7 - 2015-04-01 22:52:15 UTC
Much needed tweaks. Cant wait until tomorrow so I can believe them.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.


Still trying to balance with price huh... thought you learned that lesson..

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Appetite 4 Destruction.
#8 - 2015-04-01 22:54:04 UTC
I would say this is overall a good change, but I'm not a big fan of the material cost increase. I would prefer that the other changes go though and wait on the material changes because its harder to go back on them without messing with the market.
Sir Livingston
#9 - 2015-04-01 22:56:00 UTC
svipul & confessor usage must be high

Sci-fi games as played by an earthbound human in the 21st century http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

C C P Alliance
#10 - 2015-04-01 23:00:28 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Much needed tweaks. Cant wait until tomorrow so I can believe them.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.


Still trying to balance with price huh... thought you learned that lesson..


That term "balance with price" is very often misused by players. It's largely our fault though since we've repeatedly oversimplified when talking about past mistakes.

Cost is definitely a viable part of ship balance. It's only one small part, and it can never be used to justify an overpowered ship, but having different ships at different price points with somewhat different capabilities is a part of a healthy ship meta. Power in EVE should never increase linearly with cost, but it's absurd to suggest for instance that we need to make Vindicator and Megathrons exactly equal in power to avoid "balancing with price".

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-04-01 23:03:19 UTC
good +1
Spaceship Bebop
#12 - 2015-04-01 23:05:08 UTC
Nice changes.

Now if you would just block them from small plexes :)
#13 - 2015-04-01 23:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. As we mentioned on the o7 show today, we're making some balance changes to the Confessor and Svipul in our April release.
We are extremely happy that so many people are having fun with these new ships and we are committed to keeping them powerful and exciting, but we ideally want that power and excitement to mainly come from the new mode switching mechanic, and less from the base stats of the ship outclassing its competition. At the moment these ships are a little bit too strong and provide a bit too much vale for their cost. We've been listening to a lot of feedback on these ships from many players (including at Fanfest) and we're ready to make a few tweaks.

The biggest area of change in this release will be in fitting. Both the Confessor and Svipul will be losing some powergrid to ensure that fitting choices for them are interesting and to pull back the power of some very high-PG fits.

We're also increasing the build requirements of both of these ships to bring them closer to our original target price and to help ensure that the value you get for the cost of the ship is reasonable.

The rest of the changes are more minor, but they involve small reductions in speed, agility and mass, as well as capacitor and shield recharge rates.


    Confessor:
  • Powergrid: 71 (-9)
  • Max Velocity: 250 (-30)
  • Mass: 2,200,000kg (-200,000)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Inertia: 2.4 (+0.25)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 320s (+20s)

  • Svipul:
  • Powergrid: 68 (-10)
  • Max Velocity: 270 (-20)
  • Shield Recharge Time: 800s (+175s)
  • Capacitor Recharge Time: 240s (+15s)



*Snip* Please refrain from posting ASCII art within a forum post. ISD Ezwal

Good poast, CCP Fozzie.

The metagaem will chance for the better now that these hulls won't be able to fit 10MN ABs, or at least I hope the PG reduction is enough; haven't done the math yet. Smile

Quote:
Material Requirements:
+1 to each of Electromechanical Interface Nexus, Fullerene Intercalated Sheets, Optimized Nano-engines, Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator, Self-Assembling Nanolattice, Warfare Computation Core


This increases the build cost by 12.3 mil ISK - But I wouldn't rush to buy up the ready hulls, as the profit margin on the T3Ds is still around 11 mln ISK, plus account for the above nerf. Smile

P.S. They're already in 54 mil up from 37 mil in Amarr.
*Snip* Please refrain from posting ASCII art within a forum post. ISD Ezwal
#14 - 2015-04-01 23:31:57 UTC
Can we reduce sensor strength on all T3 destroyers?
So they greatest weakness could be jammers and enemy probes?

This way we could create new meta for fighting them.


#15 - 2015-04-01 23:40:10 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we reduce sensor strength on all T3 destroyers?
So they greatest weakness could be jammers and enemy probes?

This way we could create new meta for fighting them.




A Confessor can be jammed by a Griffin - found out the hard way. Unless you're in Sharpshooter mode, of course. Cool
#16 - 2015-04-01 23:44:55 UTC
Finally...

The Tears Must Flow

A Band Apart.
#17 - 2015-04-02 00:07:28 UTC
So with skills, looking at around 90ish PG for both the Confessor and the Svipul?

I like it.
Thermodynamics
#18 - 2015-04-02 00:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Wild Things
I'd also love to see the agility nerf you talked about on the o7 show!

All in all, fantastic job recognizing a problem and taking steps to balance it in a timely manner. Love the direction the team is headed.

In this moment, I am euphoric.

A Band Apart.
#19 - 2015-04-02 00:28:54 UTC
Wild Things wrote:
What's the reasoning behind buffing the cap and shield regen?


Unless I've been reading these things wrong, it will take longer for the shields and cap to recharge.
HYDRA RELOADED
#20 - 2015-04-02 00:29:03 UTC
Wild Things wrote:
What's the reasoning behind buffing the cap and shield regen?
Seems stupid to me. Passive svipul is already OP, and both ships are prime examples of capacitor creep.

I'd also like to see the agility nerf you talked about on the o7 show...

All in all, fantastic job recognizing a problem and taking steps to balance it in a timely manner. Love the direction the team is headed.


The shield regen time is being increased, which makes them regenerate less HP per second. Which is a nerf.
This is a great change, Svipuls had completely destroyed the metagame for Destroyers and Sub Below Ships. Thank you.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

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