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Hydra Reloaded Logo

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Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-01 16:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Duncan Tanner
The Issue
For over a year and a half we, Hydra Reloaded, have been attempting to get our logo recognized by CCP. The logo in question has been our official logo for over two years in all regards, except, it has not appeared in Eve Online.

CCP has rejected our logo on the grounds that it does not have the Eve virtual world in mind. Although we can understand CCP's skepticism, we vehemently disagree with their conclusion. We write now to attempt to assuage that skepticism and explain our case.

History
Nearly five years ago Hydra Alliance, an alliance not unlike many other Eve alliances, was formed. Hydra Alliance was committed to controlling space through large fleets and diplomacy. When its goals of holding space were put down, Hydra Alliance folded.

Some members of the original Hydra Alliance decided to try their hand at running an alliance again, but to do things differently. They were tired of trying to run a space holding alliance and decided to find new ways to have fun in this game regardless of their profitability. In September 2009 Hydra Reloaded, an alliance not like many other Eve Alliances, was formed.

The Imagery
It was understood from the beginning that the imagery of Hydra Reloaded should be consistent with Hydra Reloaded as a distinctly dadaist movement. Like the dadaists of the early 20th Century, Hydra Reloaded was committed to eschewing the culture of the empires around them, to anarchy, and to the uniqueness of their world (in this case, the sand box environment of Eve that is so different from other games.)

"The thing that is different about Eve is that you get to figure out your own end game. But then who would choose to make that end game the accumulation of wealth and control of space pixels when you can do that in any other game? Go play *******, you *******!"
-Rhak

Several images were submitted as possible logos for our new alliance. We remained divided and undecided, until the submission of the logo that was to become our logo. When what was to become our logo was submitted, there was near unanimous and instant agreement that we had found our logo. At the time we did not have the 150 members or 6 months of history to submit the logo for use in game, but we immediately adopted the logo and have used it since - we have never had, and never will have, a different logo.

The logo itself is a comment and criticism of the logo of our former alliance, Hydra Alliance. Here you can see the two logo's side by side (Hydra Alliance on the top and Hydra Reloaded on the bottom):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26594763/Hydra.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dT9Rm.png

Just as Hydra Alliance was about a superficial "elite" presence in Eve, its logo is overly stylized and dramatic. Just as Hydra Reloaded attempts to disregard the conventional, our logo is haphazard yet compelling. As we have wrote before regarding our logo:

"The traditional use of artistic expression to reproduce an illusion of visible reality and the logic of perspective is abandoned in favor of the creation of composition that is independent of obvious visual reference. A composition is instead created using the power of raw emotion to express truth, warriorship, justice and gentlemanship."

And regarding the mythology behind the logo:
"We have been reformed from the remnant of the head the old Hydra that was chopped off by Triumvirate and their dishonorable friends (who could only beat us 2v1 btw) but we've now come back much stronger with two heads to replace the old one. They didn't know that to kill us for good they had to stab our heart because they are noobs lol. Anyway, these young Hydra heads are always in conflict with each other so when they were required to express themselves artistically they kept competing for the pencil because each head thought they could draw the logo better. The raw emotion of their struggle can be seen through the harsh lines and jarring transitions in direction you see in the resulting logo."

In Use
For over two years the logo in question has acted as our official logo. We have been very active over these two years. We have achieved fame (or infamy) by placing 2nd in Alliance Tournament VII and by ending Pandemic Legion's long reign as Eve's Champion by placing 1st (officially) and 2nd (unofficialy) in Alliance Tournament VIII. We have risen to the rank of #8 of all Eve alliances on Battleclinic while being ranked only #149 in size. We have attempted to give back to the Eve community by making some of the most popular Eve PvP videos. We have also stayed true to our anti-imperialist RP vision. We have come to the aid of independent Eve communities in need, including, most recently, the esteemed and ancient Curatores Veritatis Alliance.

In all that we have done, our logo has followed. It is in our forum posts, it is in our signatures, it is on our killboard, and it is displayed reverently in nearly all of our numerous PvP videos.

While the use of the logo outside of the game does not mean CCP must accept the logo for use in game, it does beg the question: why refuse to accept the logo of a very active Eve alliance when that logo is already widely accepted as the trademark of that alliance, and hence, already a party of the Eve universe?

.

Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-01 16:02:39 UTC
Other Logos
Through this whole process of logo submission and rejection there has been the nagging fact that our logo appears to be more immersed in the Eve universe then many of the current Eve alliance logos. We have asked CCP about this and been told they would rather not talk about other alliance logos. Still, someone who did not even know the history of our logo would probably find it difficult to understand why our logo is rejected on the grounds of not relating to the Eve universe while these logos are fine: http://img195.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=9900008064.png

We are not saying those logos are bad. We are wondering how our logo, which is steeped in five years of Eve history, is less immersed in the Eve universe then a man in a fedora, a bee, an electric shock with a sinister face, a dinosaur in a suit, a box of Chinese takeout, or an emoticon.

The Sandbox
In Eve, the players are the greatest source of content. CCP has historically listened to the will of the players and allowed us to build what we will. Nevertheless, for about sixteen of the last :18 months: CCP was clearly on the wrong course. They were heavy handed and stubborn in areas where they should have been attentive and responsive. Over the course of two months, much of what was wrong at CCP seems to have changed dramatically for the better. We cannot help but feel, however, that CCP's rejection of our logo is indicative of a holdover attitude from the bad part of the last :18 months:

Our logo is player made content with a long history. Our logo is not changing. All that we ask is that CCP recognize our logo and allow us to finally see it in the game we love playing.

.

#3 - 2011-12-01 16:05:12 UTC
I give my support to your valiant cause.

+1

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

#4 - 2011-12-01 16:09:26 UTC
I'm impressed with the amount of time and effort it took you to write up such an immense justification for one of the stupidest looking logos I've seen.

Mr Epeen Cool
Clockwork Pineapple
#5 - 2011-12-01 16:09:43 UTC
yeah, I was behind you till I saw the logo

explain it all you want, but a crayon doodle don't cut it
there's a difference between having no artistic talent (as in the other example) and not trying like your logo

why not just submit dickbutt for a logo?
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-01 16:10:27 UTC
after boring at IX final no support from me. at least entertain me :p
#7 - 2011-12-01 16:11:32 UTC
Duncan Tanner wrote:
Garmon decided to try and troll the eve community and In September 2009 Hydra Reloaded, an alliance not like many other Eve Alliances, was formed.


Fixed that for you.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

#8 - 2011-12-01 16:12:09 UTC
Nah, it's like, very Buñuel.
Wilhelm Riley
#9 - 2011-12-01 16:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Wilhelm Riley
Goonswarm has a bee.. I demand that it be removed until there are bee related activities in EVE.

..an apiary in my CQ would be a good start.
WE FORM VOLTRON
#10 - 2011-12-01 16:15:27 UTC
i will fight ccps injustice.

hydra alliace 4eva.
#11 - 2011-12-01 16:16:41 UTC
Way to miss the point Mr Epeen and Morganta.

There is blatant favouritism and inconsistency going on in the art team that approves corp logos.

The reason for rejection being it doesn't fit into the style/ feel of eve is nonsense when you look at alliance logos like LAWN (a bloody garden gnome), Brick squads stupid joint smoking man or that dinosaur in a suit. WI. even manage to have a sexist logo approved that has nothing to do with EVE or their alliance name.

NONE of those fit into the theme of EVE and yet this one is rejected despite having a heritage within EVE not just from the former Hydra alliance but also synonymous with HYDRA RELOADED from their much watched and well regarded PVP videos.

There is no reason for that logo to be denied acceptance.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Clockwork Pineapple
#12 - 2011-12-01 16:17:27 UTC
and for the record, that was the worst attempted use of dadaism I ever saw and you should be beaten with a mounted toilet seat
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-01 16:18:04 UTC
I see no harm in the logo being used. It is far better than the others. And saying that it is not "EVE related" enough. Only goes to grief the idea of freedom to roleplay or express original ideas in a sandbox.

Something clever

#14 - 2011-12-01 16:19:36 UTC
Morganta wrote:

explain it all you want, but a crayon doodle don't cut it

Oh yea? Check my alliance logo
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-12-01 16:19:39 UTC
This logo has been around for so long it should be accepted.

Sure it's kind of abstract, but it's more eve related than a chinese noodle box (wtf) or a dinosaur with a suit.
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-12-01 16:21:06 UTC
Capsuleers in Eve can, and do, identify themselves however they want (including as a face-painted zulu masquerading on the forums). This is fine, and individuality should be encouraged in a sandbox game. Saying "a crayon doodle doesn't cut it" is placing arbitrary decisions on the basis of artistic bias. As mentioned above, the logo has been at the forefront of some of the most influential PvP videos in Eve, and has represented an alliance tournament winner. There is no legitimate reason to disallow this logo.

Supported.
HYDRA RELOADED
#17 - 2011-12-01 16:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Sparroxx
You need to do more of this before I'll support your cause...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eTj_rieCPXk/StCjSd32hmI/AAAAAAAAGF0/iR9ej2gkkEI/s1600-h/kid+004.jpg
Clockwork Pineapple
#18 - 2011-12-01 16:26:14 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Way to miss the point Mr Epeen and Morganta.

There is blatant favouritism and inconsistency going on in the art team that approves corp logos.

The reason for rejection being it doesn't fit into the style/ feel of eve is nonsense when you look at alliance logos like LAWN (a bloody garden gnome), Brick squads stupid joint smoking man or that dinosaur in a suit. WI. even manage to have a sexist logo approved that has nothing to do with EVE or their alliance name.

NONE of those fit into the theme of EVE and yet this one is rejected despite having a heritage within EVE not just from the former Hydra alliance but also synonymous with HYDRA RELOADED from their much watched and well regarded PVP videos.

There is no reason for that logo to be denied acceptance.


yes there is, because unless you want to send explanatory text around with it its just stupid

nobody here gives a **** about your pathetic inside jokes or sociopolitical commentary, this is why its lame.
I personally have no interest in crap that someone needs to explain in a 2 page forum post to justify.

CCP made the right call, HR tried to troll and got got re-trolled by CCP

deal with it
#19 - 2011-12-01 16:26:26 UTC
Im sorry to say i bet if the goons wanted to make there logo be a turd sandwich it would be changed in about 1 week no questions asked.



make your logo have a black back ground and be neon and they will approve it i bet

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-12-01 16:26:27 UTC
Not sure what this logo is supposed to represent, but it looks to me like CCP are just unfair when I look other alliances logos, maybe because of AT final?

If I'm correct OP apologized for the final and it was a result of valid eve (meta) game mechanisms so they should get over it.

I'd support any alliance willing to get their own distinctive logo in as long it's not a ***** or something offensive there is absolutely no reason to deny it.

Peace.
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