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Science & Industry

 
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General Industrial Advise.

Author
Rumbaldi
United Stellar Federation
The Rogue University
#1 - 2014-12-21 16:47:03 UTC
I am currently looking to expand my industry and have a number of spreadsheets that I've purchased and a few online tools that I look at in order to determine profitability etc. One thing that I've noticed with both the tools and the spreadsheets is that the prices are often not an accurate representation of the prices in game. Sometimes it is only a few hundred isk out, sometimes several thousands.

Why would these prices be out? is it because that they look at something like eve-central for their pricing and that the pricing there is not up to date? if so is there a method of querying directly with eve in order to get real time accurate data on pricing.

I have no knowledge of coding etc and so am pretty much out of my depth when it comes to all these apps etc that pull data.

I am finding it a challenge to pull in a high consistent profit with what I am doing, even though I have been trying to think out of the box in order to secure orders and sales with the items that I make. I am not sure if joining an industrial corp would be best (do they work together for a common goal or just do their own thing under the umbrella of a corp name) or to stay in the set up I have now (which is a corp I set up with my characters in order to find out more about the corporation setup)

Any help/advise would be appreciated.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#2 - 2014-12-21 19:54:36 UTC
Pricing is problematic, and you won't be able to scale your operation significantly until you solve that problem. Say for instance you need 1.3bil units of trit to meet half a week of production, and the highest hub buy price is 6.19. Your cost is not going to be 6.19 as the act of adding to the orders inherently increases its price over time, with the final price being a function of time and volume. Additionally, there's the option of setting up a range order at 5.52, using low cost logistics to move the materials, where the volume will be lower hence the time longer, meaning a process is needed to determine when to range order and when to hub order, and the actual cost is now less than 6.19. Either way, at no point is your actual cost based on any point in time highest buy price on market. To solve this, I use a weighted rolling 30-day average of actual costs pulled from the API.

This is what the big producers do, and you will find it painful to compete on that basis because you're not a coder, and if you try they'll simply squeeze you out of the market. So now you're left with lower volume higher margin items competing with everyone else selling the same low value items and back to your problem of trying to scale your operation.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Rumbaldi
United Stellar Federation
The Rogue University
#3 - 2014-12-21 20:11:29 UTC
I normally buy it as I need it, as a rough guide I use a couple of % as sundry costs and then look to make at least of 100k per unit. I am small fry in the indy world and don't necessarily want to be big a powerful as long as i can make 3 or 4 plex worth per month profit.

because I buy as I need my main issue is that the prices shown on the tools I use are inaccurate so spend a long time putting in custom pricing. is there a way to eliminate that. or does everything need a site like eve central or eve market data to pull the prices, can they not be obtained direct from the game/api?

I am making money, but it is a slower process that I would like.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-12-21 20:24:09 UTC
https://developers.eveonline.com/blog/article/nom-nom-tastey-market-data

A relevant quote:
Quote:

The market buy order and market sell order resources will NOT be made available on public CREST. There are several reasons for this but actually this is a good thing for you guys. Since this resource wont be in public CREST but we want you to access it we need to give you authed CREST. Authed CREST actually has a substantially higher rate limit as well. This will require creating an application here on the developers site and select the publicData scope. Yes, this does mean it's going to be basically impossible to get this data straight from CREST into things such as excel or Google Docs as you will have to send custom headers along with going through the whole OAuth flow.


So you pretty much have to be a coder or pay someone to write software for you or use an app which already does so to use the CREST stuff directly, however EveCentral is (or will be, not sure how far along they are) pulling from this to populate their market data.

Pulling it straight from the EVE client puts you into the client manipulation territory. Plus, you'd have to code that.
Rumbaldi
United Stellar Federation
The Rogue University
#5 - 2014-12-21 20:32:10 UTC
Thanks Elena, so it looks like eve central will have it covered anyway, ill see what happens.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#6 - 2014-12-21 20:35:21 UTC
Rumbaldi wrote:

I am small fry in the indy world and don't necessarily want to be big a powerful as long as i can make 3 or 4 plex worth per month profit.

...

I am making money, but it is a slower process that I would like.


3.2bil in profits means 32bil in sales give or take, which means roughly that amount necessary as capital, in addition to a portfolio that can support it. This is not a small operation. Simply getting over the 1bil mark is frankly non-trivial and scraping market data in itself isn't going to get you to your goal.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Rumbaldi
United Stellar Federation
The Rogue University
#7 - 2014-12-21 20:44:27 UTC
Hmm, perhaps that is something to aim for then as I dont have that amount of isk to invest.
Larry Beacon
Pog Industries - Expeditions
#8 - 2014-12-23 04:52:38 UTC
Profit per slot is the best way to plan each manufacturing venture. The goal is not to obtain peak ROI, but peak profit for each venture. ROI is just a measure of efficiency when utilizing capital or other resources. Also CCP has made it more challenging with the new industry tax which is provided by CREST (Hate JSON). These complications make it more challenging for non-technical industrialist to compete by increasing the amount of time they must invest if they want to match their technical peers.