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Devsite blog: Nom nom tasty market data!

First post First post
Author
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-11-20 15:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Large changes ahead! Market data will be available via CREST, either via public or authed CREST depending on the actual data. Information regarding the market organization, regions etc. will be available fully via public CREST. Regional sell and buy orders will be available authed CREST.

All the juicy information with specific examples and explanations is available in CCP FoxFour's latest devsite blog Nom nom tasty market data! - check it out!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Xinryu
NEXUS Financial
#2 - 2014-11-20 15:12:48 UTC
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2014-11-20 15:12:58 UTC
Lets get this party started! :D

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2014-11-20 15:13:41 UTC
Also, if you want to get an idea of what the output from this will be: https://gist.github.com/Regner/78557321ccf4a61ee342

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-11-20 15:16:01 UTC
When I first heard that you guys had the long term goal of eliminating the IGB, I was most worried about the elimination of being able to scrape the client side cache for market data, as current methods use the IGB heavily to get it in an efficient manner. I'm glad to report that all my fears were completely unfounded. Thank you so much for this consideration.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-11-20 15:17:09 UTC
Score. I was hoping this would rear its head sooner rather than later. Keep up the good work!

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2014-11-20 15:17:44 UTC
Querns wrote:
When I first heard that you guys had the long term goal of eliminating the IGB, I was most worried about the elimination of being able to scrape the client side cache for market data, as current methods use the IGB heavily to get it in an efficient manner. I'm glad to report that all my fears were completely unfounded. Thank you so much for this consideration.


YAY! Finally! People are starting to see the light! I have always said, the IGB will be removed once CREST can replace it. So... HELL YEA! Getting closer! :D

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-11-20 15:36:55 UTC
I don't know what to think of this

i always liked the fact that only those who invested time knew about the opportunities in the less popular regions.

now it's anyone with advanced coding knowledge or a tool made by someone else :(
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2014-11-20 15:40:15 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
I don't know what to think of this

i always liked the fact that only those who invested time knew about the opportunities in the less popular regions.

now it's anyone with advanced coding knowledge or a tool made by someone else :(



Or people who used eve central, when someone who looked in less popular regions was using evemon Blink


I'm working up a library for this. It's going to be a touch cheap and nasty, but it /should/ work.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Nyctef
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2014-11-20 15:42:21 UTC
Is this still cached every 24 hours? I think EVE-Central still has the advantage there
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2014-11-20 15:42:54 UTC
Nyctef wrote:
Is this still cached every 24 hours? I think EVE-Central still has the advantage there


HA! This is cached for 5 minutes. Advantage what now?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-11-20 15:48:24 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
I don't know what to think of this

i always liked the fact that only those who invested time knew about the opportunities in the less popular regions.

now it's anyone with advanced coding knowledge or a tool made by someone else :(



Or people who used eve central, when someone who looked in less popular regions was using evemon Blink


I'm working up a library for this. It's going to be a touch cheap and nasty, but it /should/ work.



sure, but eve-central never really had a good and reliable dataset even for the most important items. it was always lacking and that was a good thing.
Nyctef
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-11-20 15:50:34 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Nyctef wrote:
Is this still cached every 24 hours? I think EVE-Central still has the advantage there


HA! This is cached for 5 minutes. Advantage what now?


Nice Big smile
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-11-20 16:45:52 UTC
Why do we pass type as uri to markettypes crest instead of just adding /type/1245 at the end of uri?
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2014-11-20 17:01:37 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Why do we pass type as uri to markettypes crest instead of just adding /type/1245 at the end of uri?


I will probably add an id parameter as well, but defiantly not as part of the URI.

The reason for this not being part of the URI though is because we never want you constructing URIs. Adding a parameter yes, but constructing them no. You should be able to get to everything by following links from the root of the API. In this case it's go to the regions, get links to the region markets. Then get a list of all types on the market and pass the link to that type as a parameter to the regions market link you got early. In that flow you never construct a URI. One of the big advantages of this is that if we ever decide to change the route to a resource, such as moving the types from /types/ to /inventory/types/ which I just did today, you would not have to ever update your application. Because you got the links from CREST and never constructed a URI it would all just work.

Hope that makes sense.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Sven Viko VIkolander
Allemannsrett
#16 - 2014-11-20 17:02:58 UTC
This is pretty awesome, but I am confused why this data is being released. I thought Foxfour et al were opposed to making pubic any data sets that might negatively impact current gameplay styles? For instance, Foxfour et al decided not to make all killmails public, partly because some players, apparently, liked to prevent some of their kills/losses from reaching public boards.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-11-20 17:09:41 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
This is pretty awesome, but I am confused why this data is being released. I thought Foxfour et al were opposed to making pubic any data sets that might negatively impact current gameplay styles? For instance, Foxfour et al decided not to make all killmails public, partly because some players, apparently, liked to prevent some of their kills/losses from reaching public boards.

How does releasing market data negatively impact yours or anyone's current gameplay style?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#18 - 2014-11-20 17:15:34 UTC
I'm with Gilbaron: I don't like it at all.

eve-central gives a good overview of how current prices generally are, number of orders, etc but not much more. Unless you're in a market hub region, the data is often outdated and you can't blindly rely on it. Even in market hub regions, less traded items don't have near realtime data available. There is always the element of uncertainty and you can often look through the market in less visited regions and find something nice and cheap that nobody else has seen so far. This will be a thing of the past.

Even with order data only available to authed CREST users with a certain rate limit: what's stopping them from just piping the data through to the EVE Market Data Relay network? It will be available to everybody in realtime and it will only take a certain number of people to cover the whole market in all regions, depending on how the rate limit will look like.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !

Sven Viko VIkolander
Allemannsrett
#19 - 2014-11-20 17:19:47 UTC
Querns wrote:
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
This is pretty awesome, but I am confused why this data is being released. I thought Foxfour et al were opposed to making pubic any data sets that might negatively impact current gameplay styles? For instance, Foxfour et al decided not to make all killmails public, partly because some players, apparently, liked to prevent some of their kills/losses from reaching public boards.

How does releasing market data negatively impact yours or anyone's current gameplay style?


Some traders do a lot of research on markets to find the best trades across regions. Currently, the data on sites like eve central is spotty at best for any non-major trade hub, requiring in-game work. I doubt this will affect my play styles in any way, and it will benefit most people, but then again when it came to public kill information it was largely the complaints of a very small group of players that seemed to sway against making the data public. When public market data was suggested in the past at times like fanfest there were also some worries raised about whether this will make running market bots easier.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-11-20 17:20:23 UTC
As is customary for all devblogs containing a significant boon to the community, I must ask for more — could the initial volume of the order in question be exposed?

For example, I start a buy order for 20 good posts, and then, shockingly, someone is able to sell me a good post. They are very rare indeed. My order then goes to 19/20 good posts. However, the gist doesn't have a property for the initial order volume of 20.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

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