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Tech III - Flexible Battleship

Author
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1 - 2014-11-03 18:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
This is an idea for a new tech 3 ship, following a different style than the strategic cruiser or tactical destroyer, but remaining very customizable as is the hallmark of tech 3 ships. The Flexible Battleship (temporary name) will have a very even layout across the board, à la Gnosis. The base hull will be able to fit large subsystems but can be flown without these, and the subsystems have a much smaller role in this ships style, providing only skill bonuses. The base attributes are all in the ship itself, and a large part of its fitting flexibility lies in its ability to mix subsystems from different races.

Each subsystem skill requires that races' battleship skill at 5 in addition to other requirements, so if you want to mix multiple racial subsystems, you'll have to train multiple battleship skills to 5. The base ship comes in only one flavor and its skill can be learned with as little training as Advanced Spaceship Command 3, CPU Management 5, and Powergrid Management 5. Those last two are just to give it a reasonable skillpoint requirement by requiring skills almost any reasonable pilot would have trained anyway before getting into this thing.

The Advanced Spaceship Command skill is also needed because all of the special features available in this ship make it large and massive, and without ASC it would align like the giant slug that it is.

Individual subsystems may have additional requirements to equip and use, such as the covert ops, black ops, or command subsystems especially.

A further boost to this ship's flexibility is in the offensive subsystems: the bonuses work for all weapon sizes.

===================
The base stats:
===================

6 high slots, with 6 turret hardpoints and 6 launcher hardpoints
6 mid slots, 6 low slots
125mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 200m3 drone bay
3 rig slots, 500 calibration
5 subsystem slots - only accept large subsystems

640 Tf CPU
16,000 MW Powergrid

8000 shield HP || 10% EM || 25% Thermal || 35% Kinetic || 40% Explosive - shield recharge time: 2500s
8000 armor HP || 40% EM || 30% Thermal || 30% Kinetic || 20% Explosive
8000 hull HP
8000 capacitor - capacitor recharge time: 1000s - max capacitor recharge rate: 12.8 Gj/s

targeting range: 80km - scan resolution: 80mm - max locked targets: 8
sensor strength: 20 omni when a racial jammer is used against this ship, the jam strength used is the value between its maximum and its minimum

max velocity: 100m/s - warp velocity: 2.00 AU/s
mass: 160,000,000 kg
inertia modifier: 0.144 - align time: 32.0s
signature radius: 480m
cargohold: 500m3 - fuel bay: 1250m3 - ore bay: 7500m3 - fleet hangar: 250m3 - ship maintenance bay: 25,000m3
This ship is equipped with a covert jump drive which can only be used when any black ops subsystem is installed and online.

==================================
Subsystems:
==================================

OFFENSIVE SUBSYSTEMS

Amarr Offensive Subsystems
+5% laser turret damage per skill level
+7.5% laser turret optimal range per skill level
+7.5% laser turret tracking per skill level
-10% laser turret capacitor cost per skill level
+7.5% to EM and +2.5% to thermal, kinetic and explosive missile damage per skill level

Caldari Offensive Subsystems
+5% hybrid turret damage per skill level
+7.5% hybrid turret optimal range per skill level
+7.5% to kinetic and +2.5% to EM, thermal and explosive missile damage per skill level
+7.5% to missile velocity per skill level
+7.5% to missile explosion velocity per skill level

Gallente Offensive Subsystems
-5% to hybrid turret rate of fire per skill level
+7.5% to hybrid turret tracking per skill level
+7.5% to drone damage and hit points per skill level
+7.5% to drone control range, sentry optimal range, and drone microwarpdrive speed per skill level
+7.5% to thermal and +2.5% to EM, kinetic and explosive missile damage per skill level

Minmatar Offensive Subsystems
+5% to projectile turret damage per skill level
+7.5% to projectile turret falloff per skill level
+12.5% to projectile turret optimal range per skill level
+7.5% to projectile turret tracking per skill level
+7.5% to explosive and +2.5% to EM, thermal and kinetic missile damage per skill level


DEFENSIVE SUBSYSTEMS

Amarr Defensive Subsystems
-4% to armor resists per skill level
-7% to kinetic and explosive armor resists per skill level
+7.5% to armor hit points per skill level
-7.5% ship mass and armor hit points per skill level
+7.5% energy transfer amount per skill level and +300% energy transfer range

Caldari Defensive Subsystems
-4% to shield resists per skill level
-5% to shield recharge time per skill level
+7.5% to shield hit points per skill level
-7.5% signature radius and shield hit points per skill level
+7.5% shield transport amount per skill level and +300% shield transporter range

Gallente Defensive Subsystems
+7.5% to armor and hull repair amount per skill level
-10% capacitor cost of armor repairers and -7.5% capacitor costs of remote armor repairers per skill level
-4% hull resists and +10% hull hit points per skill level
+10% max velocity per skill level
+7.5% remote armor repair amount per skill level and +300% remote armor repairer range

Minmatar Defensive Subsystems
-7% to EM and thermal shield resists per skill level
+7.5% to shield boost amount per skill level
-7.5% capacitor cost of shield boosters and shield transporters per skill level
-5% agility per skill level
+5% bonus to remote sensor booster, remote ECCM and tracking links per skill level and +300% to remote sensor booster, remote ECCM and tracking link range

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2014-11-03 18:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
ELECTRONIC WARFARE SUBSYSTEMS

Amarr Electronic Warfare Subsystems
+7.5% to tracking disruptor effectiveness per skill level
+10% to tracking disruptor optimal range and falloff per skill level
+7.5% to energy neutralizer and energy vampire transfer amount per skill level
+7.5% to energy neutralizer and energy vampire range per skill level
+2% bonus to strength of armored warfare links per skill level and can fit one warfare link module

Caldari Electronic Warfare Subsystems
+15% to ECM jammer and ECM burst effectiveness per skill level
+10% to ECM jammer and ECM burst optimal range and falloff per skill level
-15% to ECM jammer capacitor cost per skill level
+10% to warp scrambler range per skill level
+2% bonus to strength of siege warfare links per skill level and can fit one warfare link module

Gallente Electronic Warfare Subsystems
+7.5% to remote sensor dampener effectiveness per skill level
+10% to remote sensor dampener optimal range and falloff per skill level
-15% to remote sensor dampener capacitor cost per skill level
+5% to warp disruptor range per skill level
+2% bonus to strength of information warfare links per skill level and can fit one warfare link module

Minmatar Electronic Warfare Subsystems
+7.5% target painter effectiveness per skill level
+10% to target painter optimal range and falloff per skill level
+5% to stasis webifier effectiveness per skill level
+10% to stasis webifier optimal range per skill level
+2% bonus to strength of skirmish warfare links per skill level and can fit one warfare link module


ENGINEERING SUBSYSTEMS

Amarr Engineering Subsystems
+5% capacitor capacity per skill level
+5% sensor strength per skill level and sensor type becomes radar
+1 max locked target per skill level
-20% microwarpdrive capacitor reduction per skill level
-3% powergrid cost of fitting offensive turrets, launchers, and smartbombs

Caldari Engineering Subsystems
+2% CPU capacity per skill level
+5% sensor strength per skill level and sensor type becomes gravimetric
+7.5% targeting range per skill level
-20% agility loss from propulsion modules per skill level
-3% CPU cost of fitting offensive turrets, launchers, and smartbombs

Gallente Engineering Subsystems
+2% powergrid capacity per skill level
+5% sensor strength per skill level and sensor type becomes magnetometric
+10% sensor strength per skill level
+15% afterburner effect strength per skill level
-7.5% powergrid cost of fitting armor repairers per skill level

Minmatar Engineering Subsystems
+50 calibration per skill level
+5% sensor strength per skill level and sensor type becomes ladar
+10% scan resolution per skill level
-15% microwarpdrive signature radius increase per skill level
-7.5% CPU cost of fitting shield boosters and shield boost amplifiers per skill level


EXPLORATION SUBSYSTEMS

Amarr Exploration Subsystems
+3% salvager access chance per skill level
+15% to tractor beam and salvager range per skill level
-5% micro jump drive cooldown time per skill level and +150% to micro jump drive range, duration, and cooldown
+7.5% to probe scan strength per skill level and can fit covert ops cloaking device and covert cynosural field generator
+5% jump range per skill level, can jump to covert cynosural field, and can fit covert jump portal generator

Caldari Exploration Subsystems
+5% mining laser yield per skill level
+20% to mining laser range per skill level
-5% micro jump drive activation time per skill level and +150% to micro jump drive range, duration, and cooldown
-10% fuel cost of cynosural field generator per skill level and can fit covert ops cloaking device and covert cynosural field generator
-7.5% jump drive fuel cost per skill level, can jump to covert cynosural field, and can fit covert jump portal generator

Gallente Exploration Subsystems
+3 virus strength to data and relic analyzers per skill level
+40% to data and relic analyzer range per skill level
-5% micro jump drive cooldown time per skill level and -50% to micro jump drive range, duration, and cooldown
-10% duration of cynosural field generator per skill level and can fit covert ops cloaking device and covert cynosural field generator
-5% fuel cost of other pilots using covert jump portal per skill level, can jump to covert cynosural field, and can fit covert jump portal generator

Minmatar Exploration Subsystems
-4% gas harvester cycle time per skill level
+150% to gas harvester range per skill level
-5% micro jump drive activation time per skill level and -50% to micro jump drive range, duration, and cooldown
-5% to probe scan duration per skill level and can fit covert ops cloaking device and covert cynosural field generator
-15% powergrid and CPU cost of covert jump portal generator per skill level, can jump to covert cynosural field, and can fit covert jump portal generator

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-11-03 18:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
So, what unique role do these ships fill? Because they look like huge steaming piles of OP that render all other BS's pointless.
Valkin Mordirc
#4 - 2014-11-03 19:40:30 UTC
So these Tech3 Battleships would get...26 bonus in all? O.o


That seems a little over kill.
#DeleteTheWeak
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2014-11-03 20:18:53 UTC
They can only fit 5 subsystems, one from each category. That's only 5 skill bonuses, one higher than tech 2 ships get. And this ship has resists and hit points comparable to tech 1. I don't see what's overpowered about it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-11-03 20:19:36 UTC
I'd rather see t1 battleships get re-rebalanced and real t2 (along the AF, HAC line) battleships.
Adrie Atticus
Circle Mercs
#7 - 2014-11-03 20:28:15 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I'd rather see t1 battleships get re-rebalanced and real t2 (along the AF, HAC line) battleships.


Marauders?
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#8 - 2014-11-03 20:33:36 UTC
Very similar to the thread I am already running. I like the idea of a set layout, but a mixed racial t3 seems odd to me. Could we maybe consolidate this as another one of the ideas in the running t3 battleship thread, available from my signature?

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#9 - 2014-11-03 20:35:49 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I'd rather see t1 battleships get re-rebalanced and real t2 (along the AF, HAC line) battleships.


Marauders?


Marauders are over-specialized as PvE boats, and there is no comparable mobility + resilience focused t2 battleships. I would love to see a Ship of the Line or similar concept as a t2 battleship with excellent tank for a battleship, and a mobility bonus.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2014-11-03 20:42:10 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
So, what unique role do these ships fill? Because they look like huge steaming piles of OP that render all other BS's pointless.

They cannot match any tech 2 in a single role, but rather can fill multiple roles to a lesser degree. One fit can have many uses, and that can be very useful for reducing amount of ships needed for an operation, or can allow a solo ship to do much more.

As a random example -- a fit designed for POS bash with expected defense from a mostly Amarr battleship fleet:

6x 800mm Autocannon
2x Large Neutralizer

LMJD
100MN MIcrowarpdrive
Warp Disruptor
Sensor Booster
2x Tracking Computer

Damage Control
EM Armor Hardener
Thermal Armor Hardener
2x EANM
Gyrostabilizer

Minmatar offensive subsystem:
+5% to projectile turret damage per skill level

Amarr defensive subsystem:
-4% to armor resists per skill level

Amarr electronic warfare subsystem:
+10% to energy neutralizer and energy vampire range per skill level

Amarr engineering subsystem:
+1 max locked target per skill level

Minmatar exploration subsystem:
-5% micro jump drive activation time per skill level and -50% to micro jump drive range, duration, and cooldown



A fit like this would do decent damage to the POS but would be ready to engage the Amarr fleet at short range. With the reduced LMJD activation and distance, it can quickly land at close range on a fleet that may have believed itself to be at a safe standoff range. Once close up, the neutralizers can tear apart their logistics and once those are down, it's only a matter of loading the right ammo type to get past their strong armor. The bonus resists and EM/thermal hardeners will provide extra defense against laser weapons.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-11-03 20:47:53 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I don't see what's overpowered about it.

37.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking
20% bonus to armor resists
50% bonus to energy neutralizer and energy vampire range
25% bonus to capacitor capacity
25% bonus to jump range, can jump to covert cynosural field, and can fit covert jump portal generator

8 high slots, 7 turrets, 7 launchers
6 mid slots, 6 low slots
125mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 200m3 drone bay
3 rig slots, 500 calibration

See it now? And that's not even mixing racial subsystems. Its a better brawler than the Abaddon and the Apoc while still being able to neut as well as a Armageddon. It also has plenty of drones, more cap, and a jump drive.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#12 - 2014-11-03 20:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
The problem with balancing this is the extreme flexibility of the open ended subsystems makes it far far easier to completely min max such a fit. If you give me a few moments playing around with some numbers, I can probably make something outright game breaking with this as it stands. Especially with the bonus per level to straight buffer, which this would have the fitting room and slots to take heavy advantage of.

Subs:

-5% to hybrid turret rate of fire per skill level
-4% to shield resists per skill level
+10% to stasis webifier effectiveness per skill level
+50 calibration per skill level
+15% to tractor beam and salvager range per skill level

Overall stats, skills 5:

8 high slots, with 7 turret hardpoints and 7 launcher hardpoints
6 mid slots, 6 low slots
125mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 200m3 drone bay
3 rig slots, 750 calibration

10000 shield HP || 28% EM || 40% Thermal || 48% Kinetic || 52% Explosive - shield recharge time: 2500s
10000 armor HP || 40% EM || 30% Thermal || 30% Kinetic || 20% Explosive
10000 hull HP
10000 capacitor - capacitor recharge time: 750s - max capacitor recharge rate: 13.3 Gj/s

targeting range: 80km - scan resolution: 80mm - max locked targets: 8
sensor strength: 20 omni when a racial jammer is used against this ship, the jam strength used is the value between its maximum and its minimum

max velocity: 125m/s - warp velocity: 2.00 AU/s
mass: 160,000,000 kg
inertia modifier: 0.144 - align time: 32.0s
signature radius: 480m
cargohold: 500m3

So, this looks alot like the ultimate shield tanking brawling battleship to me, with serpentis strength webs, shield tank agility, better resists than the caldari resist bonused hulls, and a massive capcitor pool, and the ability to fit 2 t2 damage rigs along with a t2 EM rig. Would obsolete the vindicator overnight for incursions, and ditto the machariel, etc.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-11-03 20:51:01 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Very similar to the thread I am already running. I like the idea of a set layout, but a mixed racial t3 seems odd to me. Could we maybe consolidate this as another one of the ideas in the running t3 battleship thread, available from my signature?

I like the idea of consolidating ideas, but the main driving force for me making this was to escape the modular mentality. It was the announcement of the tactical destroyers that sparked my imagination to come up with this unique angle on the third tier of technology. It doesn't really work very well if you can't mix races because that is a large part of what makes it stand out. It can't armor tank as well as an Abaddon, it can't shoot railguns as well as a Rokh, and it can't disrupt the enemy fleet as well as a Scorpion, but it can mix the three together in one fit.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-11-03 20:51:13 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
They cannot match any tech 2 in a single role, but rather can fill multiple roles to a lesser degree. One fit can have many uses, and that can be very useful for reducing amount of ships needed for an operation, or can allow a solo ship to do much more.

As a random example -- a fit designed for POS bash with expected defense from a mostly Amarr battleship fleet:

6x 800mm Autocannon
2x Large Neutralizer

LMJD
100MN MIcrowarpdrive
Warp Disruptor
Sensor Booster
2x Tracking Computer

Damage Control
EM Armor Hardener
Thermal Armor Hardener
2x EANM
Gyrostabilizer

Minmatar offensive subsystem:
+5% to projectile turret damage per skill level

Amarr defensive subsystem:
-4% to armor resists per skill level

Amarr electronic warfare subsystem:
+10% to energy neutralizer and energy vampire range per skill level

Amarr engineering subsystem:
+1 max locked target per skill level

Minmatar exploration subsystem:
-5% micro jump drive activation time per skill level and -50% to micro jump drive range, duration, and cooldown



A fit like this would do decent damage to the POS but would be ready to engage the Amarr fleet at short range. With the reduced LMJD activation and distance, it can quickly land at close range on a fleet that may have believed itself to be at a safe standoff range. Once close up, the neutralizers can tear apart their logistics and once those are down, it's only a matter of loading the right ammo type to get past their strong armor. The bonus resists and EM/thermal hardeners will provide extra defense against laser weapons.

So rather than fix the Tempest we should just make it even more pointless?
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-11-03 20:56:55 UTC
+10% to stasis webifier effectiveness per skill level

This pretty much makes the Serpentis ship line pointless.
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2014-11-03 20:57:48 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
37.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking
20% bonus to armor resists
50% bonus to energy neutralizer and energy vampire range
25% bonus to capacitor capacity
25% bonus to jump range, can jump to covert cynosural field, and can fit covert jump portal generator

8 high slots, 7 turrets, 7 launchers
6 mid slots, 6 low slots
125mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 200m3 drone bay
3 rig slots, 500 calibration

See it now? And that's not even mixing racial subsystems. Its a better brawler than the Abaddon and the Apoc while still being able to neut as well as a Armageddon. It also has plenty of drones, more cap, and a jump drive.

Apocalypse has a greater laser range, Abaddon will do more damage, and in order to really use that neut/nos range bonus you have to give up even more damage. The capacitor is pretty useful for brawling though.

These skill bonus amounts are tentative anyway, as are the specific stats of the ship.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Adrie Atticus
Circle Mercs
#17 - 2014-11-03 21:01:38 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I'd rather see t1 battleships get re-rebalanced and real t2 (along the AF, HAC line) battleships.


Marauders?


Marauders are over-specialized as PvE boats, and there is no comparable mobility + resilience focused t2 battleships. I would love to see a Ship of the Line or similar concept as a t2 battleship with excellent tank for a battleship, and a mobility bonus.


So I take it you haven't seen Marauders in PvP? They're beasts compared to T1 battleships. Take a gang of 3 and competent pilots and you need to blot out the sun or alpha them off the field to get rid of them in less than 20 minutes.
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2014-11-03 21:03:39 UTC
or bring Griffins

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-11-03 21:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Apocalypse has a greater laser range, Abaddon will do more damage, and in order to really use that neut/nos range bonus you have to give up even more damage. The capacitor is pretty useful for brawling though.

These skill bonus amounts are tentative anyway, as are the specific stats of the ship.

The lack of range bonus means little when brawling with scorch in the cargo hold. The vastly superior cap and better tracking will let this ship out damage the Abaddon in most fights. Even if you only fit one neut that range bonus to it is huge and you can still replace an Armageddon if you fit a bunch of them. Oh and you still field a full flight of sentry or heavy drones with room for some lights.

Now if you went with the web range or web strength ewar subsystem instead of the neut range one then your really getting into broken territory with all those mids on an armor tanked boat that still sports a heavy neut.

In fact, this looks kinda scary:

37.5% bonus to hybrid turret tracking
20% bonus to armor resists
50% bonus to stasis webifier optimal range
25% bonus to capacitor capacity
-50% duration of cynosural field generator and can fit covert ops cloaking device and covert cynosural field generator

Load this will null and you have got one seriously OP ship.
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2014-11-03 21:08:29 UTC
What if it had only 6 high slots, would that fix it?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

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