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[Phoebe] Value increase for low-end blue loot

First post First post
Author
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-10-29 18:58:25 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Given the number of abandoned POS's my former corp mates are reporting in lower holes, I am betting this is to try to entice people to return to lower holes after the WH changes a little while back. Especially when you combine this with the addition of Nullsec quality data/relic sites. But with out hard data that is just a guess. But it does seem to be a lot of carrot out of the blue so to speak.


C1s are a great place for pilots to retire in by themselves or with a few close friends. This just makes them that much more attractive...
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#22 - 2014-10-29 19:13:04 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

C1s are a great place for pilots to retire in by themselves or with a few close friends. This just makes them that much more attractive...



That's not an unattractive concept if the holes worked like I used to remember them and would be something for me to consider taking a stab at. But I hear with the introduction of the frig holes the number of entrances you have to try and watch makes the risk vs reward a bit skewed. *shrugs*
Jovrix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-10-29 20:23:08 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Don't wormholers make enough already? I thought they pulled in like a billion per person per hour.

Honestly, I would like to see the sleeper components be used to build T3s rather then NPC sell orders.

Edit: So this is mainly for the smaller wormholes? I don't know enough of wormhole life - only that I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk.

low risk?

few things, Null is dangerous, right?
well take null, remove the local chat so you have no idea who is in system.
add random spawning gates connecting ANY other null system at any given time.

not exactly low risk.
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#24 - 2014-10-29 20:26:45 UTC
Ridvanson wrote:
Wroxton Vee wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Don't wormholers make enough already? I thought they pulled in like a billion per person per hour.

Honestly, I would like to see the sleeper components be used to build T3s rather then NPC sell orders.

Edit: So this is mainly for the smaller wormholes? I don't know enough of wormhole life - only that I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk.


Wait, someone said "low risk" and "wormholes" in the same sentence... LolLolLolLolLolLol



That's what they teach the kids nowadays around k-space

Wormholes are an isk fountain with little to no risk involved, please come and visit us at your leisure!

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-10-29 20:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

C1s are a great place for pilots to retire in by themselves or with a few close friends. This just makes them that much more attractive...



That's not an unattractive concept if the holes worked like I used to remember them and would be something for me to consider taking a stab at. But I hear with the introduction of the frig holes the number of entrances you have to try and watch makes the risk vs reward a bit skewed. *shrugs*

The trick is to find one with a null static. You can run combat and relic/hacking sites to supplement your w-space income, which gets cut sharply from others coming into your hole and blitzing sites anyway. So having a t3 or two on hand to run DED sites is a very profitable route to go as long as you're basing out of the c1. As long as you have a scan alt (even on the same account) on standby and refrain from unnecessary fights and lie low, you'll generally be left alone most of the time to make a tidy profit and kick back in your own personal slice of space. :)
Aladar Dangerface
13.
Enigma Project
#26 - 2014-10-29 21:34:46 UTC
Being lazy here but can someone me a before and after isk per hour rate for c1 to c3 please?

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.

BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-10-29 23:54:46 UTC
Jovrix wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Don't wormholers make enough already? I thought they pulled in like a billion per person per hour.

Honestly, I would like to see the sleeper components be used to build T3s rather then NPC sell orders.

Edit: So this is mainly for the smaller wormholes? I don't know enough of wormhole life - only that I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk.

low risk?

few things, Null is dangerous, right?
well take null, remove the local chat so you have no idea who is in system.
add random spawning gates connecting ANY other null system at any given time.

not exactly low risk.


If you think null is dangerous you do not know how to play the game well. In null you have intel channels and know neuts are bad. In high sec you never know who will gank you and who wont and you do not have intel channels. Worm holes are safer then high sec as well as null (atleast for lower end holes (man that sounds bad). Learn to use dscan often stay aligned out to something.
type something here to make a cool sig!!!
TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
Almost Awesome.
#28 - 2014-10-30 00:42:04 UTC
Wow. So many people are mad at me because I did not know how wormhole income works exactly.

And yes, I do view wormholes as safer locations because you can somewhat control the hostiles. in known space, we have to worry about anyone in the next system over and within 5-8 lightyears and we cannot control their points of entry.

But now that I think about the Item loots from sleepers, it is fair enough for NPC buy orders. Ratting gives us directly money, but sleepers have no bounties, right?
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-10-30 00:43:30 UTC
BKM Industries wrote:
Worm holes are safer then high sec as well as null (atleast for lower end holes (man that sounds bad). Learn to use dscan often stay aligned out to something.

Are you drunk, or just stupid?
Arronicus
Upside Down Thinking Face
Black Rise Matters
#30 - 2014-10-30 00:52:29 UTC
BKM Industries wrote:
Jovrix wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Don't wormholers make enough already? I thought they pulled in like a billion per person per hour.

Honestly, I would like to see the sleeper components be used to build T3s rather then NPC sell orders.

Edit: So this is mainly for the smaller wormholes? I don't know enough of wormhole life - only that I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk.

low risk?

few things, Null is dangerous, right?
well take null, remove the local chat so you have no idea who is in system.
add random spawning gates connecting ANY other null system at any given time.

not exactly low risk.


.... Worm holes are safer then high sec as well as null (atleast for lower end holes (man that sounds bad).....


Null is not dangerous. Maybe once null fragments enough, it will become more dangerous, but as it currently stands, it is very safe, safer than highsec for some activities, especially if you arent on the edge of your alliances sov.

Wormholes safer than highsec as well as null? From having your research pos bashed, maybe. For any sort of pve activity you have got to be kidding me.
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-10-30 06:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
Jessica Duranin wrote:
BKM Industries wrote:
Worm holes are safer then high sec as well as null (atleast for lower end holes (man that sounds bad). Learn to use dscan often stay aligned out to something.

Are you drunk, or just stupid?


Why do you ask? He is from Marmite!

BKM Industries wrote:
. Learn to use dscan often stay aligned out to something.


Unvalid Argument as this belongs to everywhere, HiSec, lowsec, 0.0 and WH space.

@topic: Fozzie, Is it really that bad with low class wormholes? Oh my god ... but OK. Better than the nothing.
Leany Umangiar
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#32 - 2014-10-30 10:35:57 UTC
Can't wait for all the influx of daytrippers thinking that w-space is a easy ISK Twisted

Dont forget your d-scan Blink
Niskin
League of the Lost
#33 - 2014-10-30 14:11:42 UTC
I was already preparing to move into a low class WH in the next week or two, so this is great timing. I'll be able to cover the cost of POS fuel much quicker and the extra ISK can go towards ship replacements or better hulls.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#34 - 2014-10-30 14:13:49 UTC
My quick calculation is:
Frigates in C1/2 gain 300k ISK in value (100k->400k)
Cruisers in C1/2 gain 600k (400k->1m)
BS in C2 gain 2.4m (1.5m->3.9m)

That means that C2 should finally be significantly better than C1.

For C3/4:
Frigs gain 900k (500k->1.4m)
Cruisers gain also 900k (2m->2.9m)
BS gain 1.8m (7.5m->9.3m) (except Sleepless Safeguard that gains only 0.9m)

For C4 anomalies, this should result in a net gain of blue loot per site of 19.8 million for Integrated Terminus and Sleeper Information Sanctum, 20.7m for Frontier Barracks and 28.8m for Frontier Command Post.

.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#35 - 2014-10-30 18:40:10 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Don't wormholers make enough already? I thought they pulled in like a billion per person per hour.

Honestly, I would like to see the sleeper components be used to build T3s rather then NPC sell orders.

Edit: So this is mainly for the smaller wormholes? I don't know enough of wormhole life - only that I have been told we could make billions daily with fairly low risk.


So to clear this up for some folks that are fuzzy on the wh isk faucet.

Can you make a billion isk / hour running sleeper escallations? - yes.
Can you make a billion isk / hour for more than an hour? - no

How it works: A capital escallation is around 700mil isk. From the time you take to start the site until it's finished could be as little as 12 min. 1 miniute to land and get settled. 10 min for 2 siege cycles on the dreads. 1 minute to get in to warp to the next site.

We'll just use round numbers and go with 15 min/ site. So 4 sites / hour at 700 mil / site. That's 2.8 bil / hour. Where do I sign up?? There is more to it. To get that 2.8 bil in an hour you need a minimum of 5 guys (2 dreads/2 carriers/1 webber). If you use less pilots it will take a lot more time as you shuffle caps to get the full escallation. The min to get the 2.8 bil in an hour is 5 pilots. So divide 2.8 bil by the minimum 5 guys you're down to just over 500 mil / hour. (which is less than the 1 bil / hour advertised).

Other things to consider. The number of sites in the system. There are only so many. Many days you don't even have 4 sites. Sleeper sites aren't like null anoms. If you complete one, then it does re-appear, but not in your system - so it's gone. The practice is you run them for 3 days and then they pop by themselves. I've lived in 2 different C5 and a C6. I can't recall the average number of sites in the C6, but for a C5 I would say it would average 4 sites. So the average isk / hour is 2.8 billiion AND (because they don't instantly respawn) the average isk / day is also 2.8 bil.

So, I can make 2.8 bil isk / hour, but I have to split that isk between at least 3 players (assuming you dual box the dreads and carriers) which is super, but the down side is that I can only do that once per day. So I would caution you about isk / hour and isk / day - they are quite often the same thing in a C5 and C6 wh.

The other things to consider are you have to take time to scan the data and relic sites down, which is time invested into running those sites that I didn't calculate in to the isk/hour math. There are wh to scan out and guard, bubble or close before you run sites. That's more time to reduce the isk/hour number.

If you want a reasonable number for a C5 wh running capital escallations - I would use 3 billiion isk / day and divide that by the number of humans in the wh. That's the income in a C5. The isk / hour is a skewed number in wh and the isk / day is a better way to go just based on the fact that sites respawn not in your system, which prevents 5 hour farming sessions. Farming is quick, dirty and over in a wh.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#36 - 2014-10-30 18:42:41 UTC
I don't think the increase in blue loots will pull that many folks back into wh. They left for non isk reasons, so adding isk isn't going to pull them back in. I base that on the null model where there are countless systems full of anoms and vacant of pilots due to blue donut dullery. Adding more better red plus signs only brings so many folks back. If you want that to work you would have to totally gut HS incursions.
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-10-30 19:12:14 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I don't think the increase in blue loots will pull that many folks back into wh. They left for non isk reasons, so adding isk isn't going to pull them back in. I base that on the null model where there are countless systems full of anoms and vacant of pilots due to blue donut dullery. Adding more better red plus signs only brings so many folks back. If you want that to work you would have to totally gut HS incursions.


Many ppl left WH cause of Hyperion wich directly increased the risk vs reward ratio ergo lower ISK per hour so by increasing the ISK (reward), I think it is pretty good now.

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#38 - 2014-10-30 22:59:06 UTC
Levina Windstar wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I don't think the increase in blue loots will pull that many folks back into wh. They left for non isk reasons, so adding isk isn't going to pull them back in. I base that on the null model where there are countless systems full of anoms and vacant of pilots due to blue donut dullery. Adding more better red plus signs only brings so many folks back. If you want that to work you would have to totally gut HS incursions.


Many ppl left WH cause of Hyperion wich directly increased the risk vs reward ratio ergo lower ISK per hour so by increasing the ISK (reward), I think it is pretty good now.



They left because rolling wh sux. It had nothing to do w/ risk vs reward. Wh folks mostly measure success in fun and the mass range thing pretty much sucked the ability to have fun out of w-space. Don't get me wrong, fun is still possible, but the kick in the junk was enough to make a lot of folks pack up and leave. As folks left chains w/ no activity got longer and longer and the game just sucked more and more.

Getting day trippers into c1 and c2 isn't going to change a lot. It's the mechanics that suck not the isk vs risk.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#39 - 2014-10-30 23:04:07 UTC
lmao no one left WHs because rolling holes is too hard. Even if they did, Higgs rigs will now put battleship roundtrips at 500m kg. If a C5 corp can't get 6 people together in battleships to roll their static, I don't know what to say.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#40 - 2014-10-30 23:32:00 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
lmao no one left WHs because rolling holes is too hard. Even if they did, Higgs rigs will now put battleship roundtrips at 500m kg. If a C5 corp can't get 6 people together in battleships to roll their static, I don't know what to say.


It's almost like the many conversations I've had with many different players over different corps that I've gotten to know over the past 4 years never happened. Thanks for lmao clearing that up for me.