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Evictions, good for w-space?

First post
Author
Natasha Donnan
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#1 - 2014-10-27 16:37:20 UTC
I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.

1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.

I have heard a lot of spiel from the leaders of prominent w-space corps over the last months. They have been talking about w-space needing more players, and that they are "sad about the way that the largest corps mop up most of the incoming players", they say that w-space needs many more smaller corporations in it for it to work.

But then there are the actions of the same corporations attempting to evict people in the name of "content". As a director of a medium sized corporation my immediate response to this "content" is to think that I need more players in my home to help me defend it when they come for us. Which means that for me the actions that these corporations are currently undertaking have completely the opposite effect of the gospel they are preaching.

2. Embrace the blue doughnut.

There is a lot of talk about the blue doughnut of w-space, and contrary to general opinion on these forums I am ok with it, haters are gonna hate, but w-space is not null, we do not live under the same rules as them. We don't have to kick people out of systems just because that's what the game mechanics dictate you do in 00. I for one absolutely love the fact that we fight each other one day and join up the next "for the greater good". I do not see that as a negative for the way we live, in fact it is one of the things that attracted me to w-space in the first place.

The idea of fighting with (and possibly losing) a 20b isk t3 fleet is fine with me and absolutely part of what I want out of my pvp, however do I really want to lose everything I have in system in the name of "content"? No I don't, and I think if people gave you a truthful answer most others wouldn't either.

Anyway, that's my 2p, I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed for it, but meh.

Creator of the W-Space KB Comparison

Peronelle
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-10-27 17:05:07 UTC
If you think evictions are bad for content, then why do you have members of your corp inside J150020?

Unless you are complaining about sitting 48 hours straight in the same wormhole with 400 people doing absolutely **** all, that this, is not actually content.

Also you earn something like +/- 2.7T / year if you run sites everyday in a C6, so its not like losing all your assets inside is the end of the world.
RudinV
The Dozen
#3 - 2014-10-27 17:12:02 UTC
23/7 carebearing as content is not good for w-space.
Natasha Donnan
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#4 - 2014-10-27 17:45:09 UTC
Peronelle wrote:
If you think evictions are bad for content, then why do you have members of your corp inside J150020?

Unless you are complaining about sitting 48 hours straight in the same wormhole with 400 people doing absolutely **** all, that this, is not actually content.

Also you earn something like +/- 2.7T / year if you run sites everyday in a C6, so its not like losing all your assets inside is the end of the world.


Post with your main.

We were asked to help so we went, and it was boring, NOHO had already got everything wrapped up by the time we got there. Plus, I can have the opinion that evictions as content are bad for w-space and still go to help defend a hole, the two things do not oppose each other.

Quote:
23/7 carebearing as content is not good for w-space.


Agreed, but don't know what that adds to this thread.

Creator of the W-Space KB Comparison

Peronelle
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-10-27 18:00:01 UTC
Natasha Donnan wrote:
it was boring


I can assure you that being on the receiving side of a eviction is much less boring, a fact which you should be able to empirically confirm soon enough.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#6 - 2014-10-27 18:06:10 UTC
Peronelle wrote:
Natasha Donnan wrote:
it was boring


I can assure you that being on the receiving side of a eviction is much less boring, a fact which you should be able to empirically confirm soon enough.

#shotsfired

I'm right behind you

350125GO
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#7 - 2014-10-27 18:28:21 UTC
Natasha Donnan wrote:
I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.

1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.




What about evictions on principal?

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.

Aladar Dangerface
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#8 - 2014-10-27 18:42:28 UTC
350125GO wrote:
Natasha Donnan wrote:
I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.

1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.




What about evictions on principal?

Last one we done was awful 350, u know it man^^

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.

Credacom
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2014-10-27 19:25:44 UTC
evictions are good for WH space
pve is good
pvp is good
mining is good

anything that gets people outside their POS shields and able to be targeted by someone else = good for WH space
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#10 - 2014-10-27 19:44:54 UTC
Natasha Donnan wrote:
I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.

1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.

Do you want goons? Because that's how you get goons.
Nero Pantera
Whale Girth
#11 - 2014-10-27 20:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nero Pantera
Not every corp/alliance wants to sit at 300 odd members in the fear that they will need to defend themselves against these 100man t3/capital gangs that seem to like evicting people.


One day there going to hit a small/medum corp that always pvp's with everyone win or lose who can really only field 20 or 30 guys and they will be able to do sweet **** all but die in a fire. Im all for evicting people but theres no ******* point in even trying to really defend if the eviction fleet that your facing up against is 100 or so strong t3/capitals and your long established group of 30 guys accustomed to running 20 to 30 guys using very well designed doctrines of t3 blapping/capital pvp.

If you want content by eviction then evict people who can fight back, if your so obsessed with getting good fights and pvp then surely someone who can field the numbers you want in a fight is something that would make that eviction attractive? Evicting a small pvp corp for example would be completely pointless.

The sizes of corps/alliances atm is really making wormhole space unattractive.

Im sorry that I originally moved here for the small to medium gang pvp/capital pvp....not 100/200man t3 fleets.
Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#12 - 2014-10-27 21:31:05 UTC
Let the evictions cpntinue. Let it spill over in to the street. Our content carousel is not complete until the major entities start feeding on each other because they've killed off everything else.
Jay Joringer
13.
Enigma Project
#13 - 2014-10-27 21:53:38 UTC
It's very easy to make negative assumptions about evictions. As with many things, it is massively dependent on the attitude of those involved.

On the face of it, if an entity is removed and then dissolves out of wormholes entirely, yes that could be perceived as detrimental. But is it?

My first venture into wormholes was from investing level 4 mission ISK into a a medium tower and anchoring it in a C3. The guys that evicted us went on to use the system for themselves and it would have been easy to give up and try something else but we learned from experience and got right back into it.

Knowing what I know now, handing WH space to people on a silver plate because people think anything else would be bad for the environment is the greater of the two evils. Learning things the hard way enriches the environment. I know the initial statement was more aimed towards higher class groups, but it's all a slice of the same pie.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2014-10-27 22:07:29 UTC
Evictions are dumb. They remove content from WH space. You can make the argument that an eviction is content, however, it's a single burst of content. By evicting a group out of a WH you decrease content over time for other entities. People complain about there being empty holes, but then dickstroke about evictions.

I feel like most corps aren't like ADHOC or that other one who will go back to WHs after getting evicted. You can say "Oh this corp will totally come back to WHs after we destroyed all their ****", but has anyone gone back through their list of evictees and seen if they've actually come back?

Is carebearing 23/7 dumb? Absolutely. I don't think it's a reason to evict someone though. When they carebear they provide gank targets. In a C5, that's usually cap gangs, and everyone likes to kill caps. In a lower class hole, it's tengus or drakes, which, while not the greatest, are still something to kill.

People talk about giving fights to not get evicted, but when you can field ~20-30 people in a fleet and they can't, how the **** are they going to fight you? If they just constantly whelp into you, will you be appeased? Maybe they fight people who aren't you, and by evicting them you're depriving other WH corps of content.

tl;dr evictions are cancer and are boring as ****

The only thing evictions are good for were the dank callout threads that happened over the summer.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Jack Miton
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#15 - 2014-10-27 22:49:28 UTC
Evictions are very bad for WH space and have always been so.
Invading someone's home and attacking them? sure that's find and good content but actually coming in with an overwhelming force to just remove them? That isnt good or fun for anyone and it certainly isnt content.

I highly disagree with the blue donut being ok though.
it is 100% not needed in whs and all it leads to is people having access to huge, unopposable forces which they'll inevitably want to take advantage of, generally in the form of evicting people what as discussed above is terrible for WH space.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#16 - 2014-10-27 22:55:22 UTC
End of the day its certainly not high sec and never should be too safe.

But I'm not personally a fan of removing people "just because", seen a few medium sized entities burnt to the ground who did one way or another provide content and for the most part didn't do anything (atleast to my knowledge) to warrant it.

Won't see me shedding tears though if people who bear 23x7 get kicked out.
Jack Miton
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#17 - 2014-10-27 22:56:48 UTC
I'll add that kicking someone out because you want their specific system to live in is one of the few acceptable eviction reasons.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-10-28 03:31:41 UTC

I have to say that our old C5 was a noose around our necks and most of us are glad to be rid of it. Did we like losing our accumulated stuffs? No. That always sucks but it was the medicine we needed to cure our disease.

I have to say that ADHC is the exception to the rule, and most people either implode or don't come back after losing the home they worked long and hard to build. For us it's been a catalyst for activity. We'll be back to W-space at some point. We're taking a long needed break and purging old bad habits in the process.

Carebears are typically the victims of getting evicted and the standards to which those individuals are held vary widely, corp by corp. We've done our fair share of peter ops and our halls are decorated with the corpses of flash-crashing bears that dared name their towers "Elite PvP". They lose it all and because they are motivated purely by milking the teats of Sleepers, they don't come back.

Evictions aren't good or bad. They're just something that happens for "reasons". It could be because you're bored, insulted, have a long standing grudge, or simply want to experience what it's like pushing someone's sandcastle over.

The "unpopulatedness" of C5 space has little to do with evictions and mostly to do with the chasm in terms of skill training that it takes to make C5's a worthwhile endeavor.

Jack Miton
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#19 - 2014-10-28 04:38:24 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:
The "unpopulatedness" of C5 space has little to do with evictions and mostly to do with the chasm in terms of skill training that it takes to make C5's a worthwhile endeavor.

this is bullsh!t and you know it.
C5s are no harder to live in than C1s and 2s and anyone claiming otherwise is either ignorant or pushing an agenda.

C5s are not 'unpopulated', they have the same level of population as all other classes of WHs: low.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Tuscor
13.
Enigma Project
#20 - 2014-10-28 08:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuscor
I've been in and out of Wormholes since ~2011. I've been on the receiving end of evictions twice, and one corp I was in had to move out of a WH 'under threat' when our CEO fell out with the Alliance leadership (back in Talocan United days).

I still live in a WH and most of the guys I flew with over the years still do too. The evictions did not stop me and many of my corpies from coming back (albeit not always in the same corp).

Evictions every weekend are clearly not sustainable - but the odd eviction, be it for loot, killmails, to settle an old grudge or to kick up the dust is part of living in WH's and part of the uncertainty of this way of life. If you are doing it right, an eviction will not be an 'extinction event' for your corp...

We recently invaded a C5... we got a good fight from the locals, we could have been beaten if they had bought more WH appropriate ships (ie fitted their armageddons with neuts not missiles). We even offered to leave after the fight for a nominal fee but the locals preferred to go down fighting...

Anyway, the point is, conflict is fun, being on the receiving end of an invasion is stressful but can be entertaining and if it leads to people leaving WH space for good, maybe they should not have been there in the first place...
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