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Nerf high sec incursions

First post
Author
Bl1SkR1N
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-10-20 09:51:46 UTC
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#2 - 2014-10-20 10:01:16 UTC
You mean other then incursion ships costing several billion isk each exploding every day because even with the highly well sorted fleets with grade A logi pilots and baller FCs who have their running down to a science?

Hell my crappy DDD ship (crappy railgu which i designed to be as cheap as i could get away with) costs a billion+ isk...

From my understanding plex prices are this high because faction warfare became a good money making prospect (thats what the former professor of economics said) and simply because people will pay the cost of plex no matter what the cost is.

And of course then there is the odd interaction between plex prices and supply, the supply of plex is determined by the sale price, say i want to buy a MOM (dont know why i would want to but say i do) and i decide to plex the entire thing... I need to sell LESS plexxes if the price is high, which means supply becomes more limited if prices go up.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-10-20 10:09:32 UTC
Yes they should. No they won't. Yes its ridiculous. No there's nothing you can do.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#4 - 2014-10-20 10:17:13 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


That's a pretty funny argument..... Incursions (which produce less than 1/3 of the ISK bounties do) are responsible for Plex inflation. Let's try to reason this one out.....imagine incursions really were this massive ISK faucet that was flooding Eve with easy ISK....so what would we expect? Plex inflation? Sure. How about ships/mods? Oh wait, they would need to inflate by the EXACT SAME AMOUNT AS PLEX DOES because resources are just as scarce as they used to be.

Now let's see what is actually happening....Plex inflating...yep....ships/mods? Nope, in fact they are DEFLATING. Conclusion - The problem isn't ISK faucets - the problem is too much/too easy mining flooding eve with cheap resources which is inflating Plex while deflating ships/mods. So the OP's argument is a giant fail.

Which gets us to the real topic here - the hatred the nullsec "elite pvp" folks have towards collaborative and profitable PvE in highsec. The idea that people can actually work together in Eve to do PvE, and not to shoot other players, is just agonizing to a lot o folks. Apparently any playstyle that doesn't revolve around tears/carnage/hurting people is somehow illegitimate and needs to be nerfed.

If anything incursions, which are one of the few in game activities that don't reward dysfunctional and anti-social behavior, should get a big buff, with the nerf bat hitting suicide ganking, mining, scamming, etc....

Incursions are already dangerous enough with the massive dps on grid and incursion ships exploding right and left, not to mention all the time spent moving, the early mom popping, and the time waiting to get a fleet up. So no, nerfs are definitely not needed, but buffs surely are.
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-10-20 10:51:50 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
You mean other then incursion ships costing several billion isk each exploding every day because even with the highly well sorted fleets with grade A logi pilots and baller FCs who have their running down to a science?


But Incursions werent designed to be flown in glass cannons costing several billions, they can be done in T2 fit as well ... that your problem you spend so much money on ships you dont need, so dont argue by something you do even trough you dont need to ...
Lucrii Dei
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-10-20 10:52:12 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".

Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions?

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#7 - 2014-10-20 10:57:10 UTC
Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?

I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-10-20 11:06:03 UTC
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".

Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions?


But its only problem of those ppl who lost such expensive ships ... nobody forced them to fly that fit ...
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#9 - 2014-10-20 11:13:39 UTC
Zmikund wrote:
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".

Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions?


But its only problem of those ppl who lost such expensive ships ... nobody forced them to fly that fit ...


To make reasonable isk/hour given the amount of effort involved you basically need to use blinged out ships. Otherwise you are much better off running L4s, mining, etc.....
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-10-20 11:42:50 UTC
+1 I do wish there were less faucets in High security. The issue i believe isn't against incursions or their team gameplay, but rather of where that gameplay takes place.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.

FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#11 - 2014-10-20 11:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: FireFrenzy
Zmikund wrote:
FireFrenzy wrote:
You mean other then incursion ships costing several billion isk each exploding every day because even with the highly well sorted fleets with grade A logi pilots and baller FCs who have their running down to a science?


But Incursions werent designed to be flown in glass cannons costing several billions, they can be done in T2 fit as well ... that your problem you spend so much money on ships you dont need, so dont argue by something you do even trough you dont need to ...


Sure, in theory that is entirely possible. The problem with that is that that is actively disincentivised. The mechanics say you want (in an ideal world) 20 vindicators, 10 nightmares (my machariel isnt ideal) 3 basilisks (2 might even be ideal now...), 7 scimis and a t3. Because that projects maximum damage over the ranges involved. And while we (WTM T-badge FC full disclosure) and the further you stray from that ideal the lower isk/hour is for the whole fleet.
And while i love flying kitchen sink fleets if you get contested every site because your fleet cant keep up with the perfect fleetcomp driven by another group and NO ONE in the fleet is making ANY money you see how the whole Pith a single invul 4 faction tracking computer faction heatsinks several billion isk meta is what the mechanics incentivise.

I dont fly a 3 billion isk mach because i WANT TO i fly it because it means i might actually get paid in busy systems. And yeah we fit less tank then we could fit, but in a system that only cares about maximal damage output would you fit differently?
PewpewPatricia
Servitus Solo
United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
#12 - 2014-10-20 11:46:44 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Zmikund wrote:
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".

Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions?


But its only problem of those ppl who lost such expensive ships ... nobody forced them to fly that fit ...


To make reasonable isk/hour given the amount of effort involved you basically need to use blinged out ships. Otherwise you are much better off running L4s, mining, etc.....


Incursions scale so much better with isboxing though. 12 accounts will easily make you 1b/hour with little effort beyond the initial investment. I have no issues watching a show on my third screen or whatever while doing them. I guess it probably drives plex prices up slightly, as pretty much everyone isboxing will plex the accounts (takes about 10 hours to plex all accounts).
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#13 - 2014-10-20 11:54:00 UTC
True, but not everyone HAS or even WANTS 10+ account...

BUT about my own posts: I was speaking more for the specifics i am familiar with, which is the 40 man fleet with 40 people in it.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#14 - 2014-10-20 12:12:19 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


Fine, but on the same page, remove all gates from DED sites in low/null. It's ridiculous how there are ungankable pve-locations in null. You can gank highsec incursions, but you can't do squat about someone running a 10/10, unless afk.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2014-10-20 12:15:12 UTC
Lucrii Dei wrote:


Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".



A few bil a month ranting out bad space is hardly a fortune.
Bl1SkR1N
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-10-20 13:03:54 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?


Fine, but on the same page, remove all gates from DED sites in low/null. It's ridiculous how there are ungankable pve-locations in null. You can gank highsec incursions, but you can't do squat about someone running a 10/10, unless afk.


Well you can go in, chase him away, take the loot and laught at him Cool
Bl1SkR1N
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-10-20 13:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bl1SkR1N
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?

I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?


ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me.

And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#18 - 2014-10-20 13:19:58 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?

I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?


ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me.

And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure.


As opposed to AFK Carrier ratting in renterland or WH escalations which are just soooooo dangerous? Fact of the matter is that nullsec rewards already significantly exceed those of highsec. People run incursions because they are FUN, not because it's the max isk/hour or any nonsense like that. If it bothers you that much (and that's a kind of crazy thing to worry about) go suicide gank them. But this crazy force everyone into nullsec agenda is thankfully never going to be adopted by CCP.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#19 - 2014-10-20 13:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?

I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?


ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me.

And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure.


Many say the same about ratting in the blue doughnut...the issue then is ISBoxer not the incursions themselves which in many cases work as intended. If someone who doesn't like ISBoxer fleets feels the urge I'm sure they could wreak havoc with a cheap ecm ship playing some random ecm effects across the fleet :D
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2014-10-20 13:23:48 UTC
PLEX need to go above 1B. I want to see them at 1.5B at some point. That will be fun times. Twisted

People then start to properly sub their accounts again and don't need to grind ISK as much anymore, which will result in an a lot more relaxed environment in the game. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

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