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EveManufactureTool v6.19 - Proteus release

Author
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#1 - 2014-10-04 15:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: EMT Holding
EveManufactureTool (EMT) is an industry tool developed primarily for the T2 manufacturing market but also usable by those building T1 items. In development for over 18 months, it is now time for a public release. Development in ongoing, with a great deal of features and usability options planned for eventual release.

You can see what the program looks like by going to the website at http://www.evemanufacturetool.com where you will also find the registration and download page.

Ingame help can be found in the channel "evemanufacturetool". I encourage you to join it where you can have a hand in the design of upcoming features as well as voicing your thoughts on existing design.

Now with a tutorial!


Planned feature list

  • comparison between two regions/systems for prices (buy only?)
  • add option for the skill that was PE (3% time per level)
  • allow install line for invention jobs?
  • add volumes for things!
  • API stuff!
  • async property updates and refresh as data comes in
  • add the ability to select whether to buy something off the market or build it for a component
  • alert if closing and haven't saved
  • enhance team auction display to include bidding info
  • if user doesn't select or marks some items in selection pane as complete, when margin updates on lock, numbers can look weird
  • perhaps a condensed view of manufacture, with selectable data/columns
  • perhaps set default ME/PE for empty blueprint in options? (e.g. can default to 10/10)
  • ability to exclude t2/meta/faction items when adding a manufacture group
  • add global skill levels for manufacturing time reduction
  • phoebe skills for time modifying
  • change build time profit ratio to mean something more useful, perhaps combine with buy/make component change
  • user designated groups?
  • copy/paste BPOs from ingame for ME/TE values
  • add windows style question mark to bring up a help window on how to use a dialog


Feature release version
6.12

  • add some config options for colours and thresholds
  • ingame browser page for buying quanties (browser page would update EMT!)


6.11

  • allow for moving/merging items/batches
Nalha Saldana
The Vomit Comets
#2 - 2014-10-04 21:21:09 UTC
Nice to see new projects doing this, I like the initial look of it at least.

Just a few questions:
1. Where are the prices from? Are they imported from eve central?
2. Having invention and manufacturing in separate windows feels kinda odd, how do i compare the different decryptors total isk/hour with the manufacturing included?
3. What skills is this currently set to? Can we get a option to manually set them at least?
4. Is there any way to compare buying or building components for t2 manufacturing?
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#3 - 2014-10-04 22:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: SJ Astralana
Fun stuff. Observations:

Too many clicks. Popping up saved! is a wasted click.
The dropdowns are clunky.
The pricing scan is finding lower priced items at non-hub stations which is inappropriate. A sell system dropdown would solve this.
Pricing and installation cost is damn good.
The client-server decision is spot-on.
You'll definitely want to move this to a click-once application. I can help with that.
.NET 4.0? The only reason for that is to support Win XP. That'll severely limit you as you try to move forward.
If you're interested, I have an EVE API project which solves all of the API and Crest download problems and which would be trivial to consume.
Out of curiosity, what's your hosting stack?

As it is this tool is easily the best one available for market research.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

SJ Astralana
Syncore
#4 - 2014-10-04 22:16:15 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Nice to see new projects doing this, I like the initial look of it at least.
4. Is there any way to compare buying or building components for t2 manufacturing?


Paraphrased from my user guide:

Multi-Chain production is where you have the option of building or buying a component in your production chain. For instance, if you need a T1 mod to build a capital mod, you have the option of building or buying the mod.

I feel obligated to hammer this point home: If it's not worth building to sell, it's not worth building to build. The underlying reason is screamingly obvious. If you're pumping jobs through your factory at 500k/hr or more, you do not want to slow that down building 50k/hr mods. Let a smaller producer build them for you.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#5 - 2014-10-05 05:53:59 UTC  |  Edited by: EMT Holding
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Nice to see new projects doing this, I like the initial look of it at least.

Just a few questions:
1. Where are the prices from? Are they imported from eve central?
2. Having invention and manufacturing in separate windows feels kinda odd, how do i compare the different decryptors total isk/hour with the manufacturing included?
3. What skills is this currently set to? Can we get a option to manually set them at least?
4. Is there any way to compare buying or building components for t2 manufacturing?

1. Yes, prices are from eve-central. Part of a planned feature that should be done within a month will allow for greater control over what pricing to use by allowing you to manually override the price for anything that is part of a batch.

2. I'm aware of this and it's been something that I've wanted to change/fix/adjust since the first version. The way I do it at the moment is just to add all of a given item with all decryptors and then press manufacture and manually find the best decryptor to use. I'll put this on my to do list as something to change.

3. Invention currently assumes a 4/4/4 skill set but you can change this on a per batch basis (set skills button) or an individual invention line (skills field).

4. Vaguely, yes. If you click the dropdown button next to a manufacture job, it'll show you the components required for that thing. If manufacture cost < buy cost, it's cheaper to build (almost always is). This is something I'm looking in to changing with colour to make it more obvious as well as a tickbox to indicate whether you're buying this or building it.

SJ Astralana wrote:
Fun stuff. Observations:

Too many clicks. Popping up saved! is a wasted click.
The dropdowns are clunky.
The pricing scan is finding lower priced items at non-hub stations which is inappropriate. A sell system dropdown would solve this.
Pricing and installation cost is damn good.
The client-server decision is spot-on.
You'll definitely want to move this to a click-once application. I can help with that.
.NET 4.0? The only reason for that is to support Win XP. That'll severely limit you as you try to move forward.
If you're interested, I have an EVE API project which solves all of the API and Crest download problems and which would be trivial to consume.
Out of curiosity, what's your hosting stack?

As it is this tool is easily the best one available for market research.

Yay, feedback!
Yes, the "Saved!" dialog is a bit wasted. I can probably just throw that in the status bar now. Beyond that, what else do you think there is too many clicks for and do you have any suggestions of what to change?

I like my dropdowns :( If not comboboxes, how better to present the information? You can "search" the dropdowns just by typing and it'll start trying to take you to something that matches. E.g. typing hou would take you to a hound.

Yes, pricing is something that is getting a review and change right after I finish teams. It's currently based on a sell region which I have always used the forge for. Generally Jita prices are the best in that region so it's not been something I've noticed but if you're selling in Amarr/Dodixie/Rens/Hek, I can see it being an issue. The good news is that the program already has the back end support for single system pricing.

Wasn't expecting to hear someone praise the client-server decision. It was initially an all-enclosed client but there are so many benefits to keeping the server online all the time, especially when it comes to price caching, CREST calls and SDE caching.

It's .NET 4.0 because that's the highest version that VS2010 will support. I haven't found anything holding me back with it yet but if you know of some jesus feature that would be of great help, I'd love to know.

I'll take a look at your eve API project. I do plan to include API things eventually but that's such a monumental task, I wanted to get the rest of it working first. The hosting stack (if i understand what you're asking) is just a WCF server that I wrote with a bunch of services available; the market one is actually open and doesn't require any validation. The website is just ASP.NET on IIS.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#6 - 2014-10-05 07:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: SJ Astralana
EMT Holding wrote:

I like my dropdowns :( If not comboboxes, how better to present the information? You can "search" the dropdowns just by typing and it'll start trying to take you to something that matches. E.g. typing hou would take you to a hound.

Wasn't expecting to hear someone praise the client-server decision. It was initially an all-enclosed client but there are so many benefits to keeping the server online all the time, especially when it comes to price caching, CREST calls and SDE caching.



HATE it when the forums munch my replies.

The UI convention is to present a combo with an edit field, and to require a response from the list that exist. Many users don't realize that you can typeahead a dropdown list. You've just set the wrong flags on your control.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#7 - 2014-10-05 11:33:11 UTC
SJ Astralana wrote:
EMT Holding wrote:

I like my dropdowns :( If not comboboxes, how better to present the information? You can "search" the dropdowns just by typing and it'll start trying to take you to something that matches. E.g. typing hou would take you to a hound.

Wasn't expecting to hear someone praise the client-server decision. It was initially an all-enclosed client but there are so many benefits to keeping the server online all the time, especially when it comes to price caching, CREST calls and SDE caching.



HATE it when the forums munch my replies.

The UI convention is to present a combo with an edit field, and to require a response from the list that exist. Many users don't realize that you can typeahead a dropdown list. You've just set the wrong flags on your control.

Ahh I understand. I'll look at changing the comboboxes to that, it should be simple. Thanks!
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#8 - 2014-10-08 16:30:42 UTC
An update for being able to apply teams to a manufacture batch will be coming within the next day or two. The code is complete but due to the extensive nature of the changes, there's a fair bit of testing to be done to make sure everything works as planned.

A preview of what the team selection looks like can be found at http://i.imgur.com/bcCpoZB.png

Still a WIP though! If you have suggestions to make it better, please let me know.
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#9 - 2014-10-09 11:09:29 UTC
Teams feature has been released.

Only an active team can be applied to a batch, not one that's in auction.
Teams are applied to a group of things, such as assault frigates, cruisers (T1 hulls), heavy assault cruisers, medium class (all cruisers and battlecruisers).
Estimates are given about how much of a difference a team will make. Using this, you can work out roughly how much is your maximum bid for a team for a given production batch.

If you have problems with it or it doesn't work how you expect, do let me know so I can investigate and fix.
BigWolfUK
Sons-of-Liberty
#10 - 2014-10-10 18:20:36 UTC
Have been using this tool, and despite some issues that I know are being sorted, I'm finding it really useful
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#11 - 2014-10-20 21:05:23 UTC
Number of updates since my last post here. http://www.evemanufacturetool.com/Change_log.aspx has all the details.

Next major feature release will be for pricing choices starting with selecting region/system pricing for the final products of a manufacture batch.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#12 - 2014-10-21 08:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SJ Astralana
Moar feedback:

Use case: Which battleships to build?
Added Battleship group.
Updating ME -- GLACIAL (25 seconds each)
Updating TE is fine.
Changing build system after group loaded - GLACIAL. Ditto pricing region.
Some blueprints default to 2/2, others to 0/0. 10/10 is a far better default than either of those.
If blueprint listed twice, unable to enter ME on it or any after. E.g., Armageddon listed twice, can't set the 2nd geddon ME nor any blueprint under it.
Any attempt to delete a blueprint from the list, crash.
Scrolling, expanding window size, anything that refreshes the display of the list - GLACIAL.


I adore the add group feature. If it defaulted to 10/10 I'd carry your babies. Although it could be much faster -- I've seen paint dry faster.

If the performance is suffering because of back-end calls, this is the sort of thing that begs to be processed async. .NET 4.5 makes that easy, but since that isn't an option, it's still doable the hard way in 4.0.

Right now it's so slow I'm going back to the movie I'm watching and I'll update ME on smoke breaks.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#13 - 2014-10-21 09:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: EMT Holding
SJ Astralana wrote:
Moar feedback:

Use case: Which battleships to build?
Added Battleship group.
Updating ME -- GLACIAL (25 seconds each)
Updating TE is fine.
Changing build system after group loaded - GLACIAL. Ditto pricing region.
Some blueprints default to 2/2, others to 0/0. 10/10 is a far better default than either of those.
If blueprint listed twice, unable to enter ME on it or any after. E.g., Armageddon listed twice, can't set the 2nd geddon ME nor any blueprint under it.
Any attempt to delete a blueprint from the list, crash.
Scrolling, expanding window size, anything that refreshes the display of the list - GLACIAL.


I adore the add group feature. If it defaulted to 10/10 I'd carry your babies. Although it could be much faster -- I've seen paint dry faster.

If the performance is suffering because of back-end calls, this is the sort of thing that begs to be processed async. .NET 4.5 makes that easy, but since that isn't an option, it's still doable the hard way in 4.0.

Right now it's so slow I'm going back to the movie I'm watching and I'll update ME on smoke breaks.

If you're running off a BPO, you should use the blueprints tab and set the defaults. Any jobs entered will use that first and you can change it to something else if you desire. You're not supposed to be updating each run individually. That said, there's also no reason why updating the ME should be slow at all. All the data it needs to recalculate everything has already been requested and stored locally. I'll have a look to see if there are any remote calls that I've missed when changing the ME.

Changing build system should be nearly instant. The only data that has to request is the manufacturing index. Changing pricing region, depending on where you pick, will be slow(er) because unless someone else happens to have loaded those prices in that region within 12 hours, it has to run off to eve-central to get an updated set of data. It's on the to-do list as something to fix/change.

Can you reproduce a blueprint being listed twice and unable to enter ME on it or any after? What about attempting to delete a blueprint from the list? I've never encountered either of these things but it could be because you're doing it in a way I haven't thought of.

Scrolling and expanding the window size certainly shouldn't be slow; that's something I discovered very early on and spent a long time fixing. Again, can you give steps to reproduce it so I can find out why? Assuming this in on the manufacture tab. I've noticed some possible performance fixes on the invention side of things but they shouldn't be causing comments like that.

On your last point, set the default ME/TE for the blueprints you care about from the blueprints tab and then you'll find the add group works just as you expect, with the values you want it to contain. What does .NET 4.5 do with async that's still doable the hard way in 4.0? Are you referring to await/async?
Sir Constantin
#14 - 2014-10-21 15:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Constantin
This is a awesome tool but you should, if possible, to offload a lot of things off the server and force to cache market data, system indexes on HDD.

Constant internet traffic for little thing like sorting columns can make it very slow to work with.
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#15 - 2014-10-21 15:34:34 UTC
Sir Constantin wrote:
This is a awesome tool but you should, if possible, to offload a lot of things off the server and force to cache market data, system indexes on HDD.

Constant internet traffic for little thing like sorting columns can make it very slow to work with.

Everything gets cached locally after a first request including pricing. It doesn't hit local storage so a restart will lose the data but it does get stored in memory. Sorting columns should never cause an additional server requests. Where is it that you're seeing the slow sort?

There are plans in place to do client side persistent caching of data that doesn't change. Perhaps I'll start on those sooner than later!
Sir Constantin
#16 - 2014-10-21 17:26:56 UTC
Manufacture tab seems to generate a lot of internet traffic which adds 10-15 seconds of lag. Stuff like sorting by isk/hour or manufacture cost, when you scroll up or down.

A client side caching would make this program faster with less server load and bandwidth usage.
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#17 - 2014-10-21 17:31:40 UTC  |  Edited by: EMT Holding
Sir Constantin wrote:
Manufacture tab seems to generate a lot of internet traffic which adds 10-15 seconds of lag. Stuff like sorting by isk/hour or manufacture cost, when you scroll up or down.

A client side caching would make this program faster with less server load and bandwidth usage.

As I said, the client already has caching. I'll take a look at sorting/scrolling on those fields. There's no reason it should be generating any extra traffic once the data is loaded. All the data to calculate everything should already be in memory.

What do you have listed in your manufacture tab? Everything?
Sir Constantin
#18 - 2014-10-21 18:29:57 UTC
No, just Combat Drones.
I've added them to invention using the option: "Add all items in group with all decriptors" , then click on Manufacture to import them into the Manufacturing tab.


I don't know, maybe it's a issue with Windows XP.

EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
#19 - 2014-10-21 18:47:09 UTC
If I scroll up and down really fast, the scroll bar does lag behind where my mouse is but there are no additional server calls happening. What you may have been seeing is one of the cache calls being made in a very poor way (it's on the list to make better).

Beyond that, sorting is instant for me. no matter which column I click on. I'll fire up an XP VM and see how it handles on that, it could be related.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#20 - 2014-10-21 20:29:41 UTC
Sir Constantin wrote:
This is a awesome tool but you should, if possible, to offload a lot of things off the server and force to cache market data, system indexes on HDD.

Constant internet traffic for little thing like sorting columns can make it very slow to work with.


I have a similar experience, although maybe mine's slower because my latency from Australia is higher.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

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