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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6741 - 2014-10-04 21:50:39 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Monasucks wrote:
And another thing came up my mind with all those changes.
We play eve in our free time.
Now we should wait and sped our freetime haveing less fun and just idle for some kind of cooldown or by boaring travelling by gates?

CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cooldown and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!

Please consider this!




I think you and a lot of folks are missing the fatigue thing. CCP isn't looking to waste your time on cool down stuff. They're putting and end to large fleets of capitals zipping across new eden. You folks are just in denial. You keep saying tweak this and tweak that to make it a bit more bearable. The point of the changes are to make it stop.

I doubt they are going to make it even a little ok. They're going for ending the instant power projection, not make you waste your time. Accept it and find ways to play eve that don't involve what they are coding out of the game. You guys are putting soooooo much effort into hanging on to a system that isn't good for eve. Let it go (or freak out over timers for the next X number of years)

It's also taking out JF at the knees you say? Everyone is screaming how difficult logistics will be. That may be the point too. The bigger you are, the more the JF thing hurts. Are you getting it? They're taking steps to break the stagnation. If you insist on holding on to the present way of doing things.... It will suck by definition. The point is to innovate and find a new way and a new system.


Fine.

What the hell is the point of having a capital ship then? Isn't their sole purpose force projection? If they were intended to sit in their own space and never leave their home regions these changes should have been considered a long long time ago. A time when there were far less capital capable pilots and the affected player base would have been much smaller.

By that same logic, do you think that alliances will take battleship fleets through some 50 gates, traveling for hours, only to be blueballed or have a small skirmish? Do you see large power blocs using interceptors to grind sov structures?

How is null going to change based on this new mechanic? Do you think that now all of a sudden alliances that could never exist in null on their own are going to be able to take space or even hold onto it? That would imply uprooting one of the alliances already holding the space, and with what? Motley crew of cruisers, destroyers and a battleship or two?

Once again, the question is, what possible use do capital ships play in this new CCP envisioned universe? Why isn't it OK for an alliance to be able to move quickly through space? If they have routes prepared and logistically prepared themselves for quick deployments, why should they be knee capped and prevented from doing so by some stupid game mechanic that serves no other purpose than to be pain in the butt?

I mean seriously, do you see anyone uprooting PL or GSF or NC. from their home without force projection? Do you think these alliances will take their caps somewhere and let them be stuck and unable to defend their hoome? No. They will bring them home, only now nothing can counter them in their home. Good luck taking on full capital force of some alliance in their home system with your interceptor/quick travel gangs.

You want stagnation to end? It will end. It will turn entire null into ASCN.

Either that or we will all start a war before these ******** changes go in so we can at least get some heavy punches in before we're tied to the ring pole and given pillows for gloves.



There is a HUGE difference between force projection and isntant force projection


US navy have carriers as force projection, they take days to go from one corner of the ocean tothe other. USN instantaneous response force are NOT the same as the force projeciton ggroup. They are their Ohio class submarines that can obliterate any city in 90 minutes.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#6742 - 2014-10-04 21:53:58 UTC
voetius wrote:
In actuality, in the last two weeks while I've been snooping around in low sec I've seen two convoys of freighters plus escorts going to null and the last was escorted by 100 or so zealots with rapiers and some other support - no names mentioned as I don't want to give too much away :)

Generally happens because of IHub upgrades and eggs and the like that cannot be moved via JF, and escorts will bring those to either a Titan or a JB within a few jumps, making the window for a fleet small.

Now, when you have to traverse 20 jumps through null in a freighter, that's a lot of time for a roaming carrier gang that travels three times faster than you to redirect when scouts pick the convoy up.

The primary mode of transportation is still going to be jump, wait 15 minutes, jump, wait 15 minutes, etc. The only time most JF pilots will consider taking a gate is at a regional border, and if their scouts don't sign off on it being 99.98% safe, they'll wait the 15 minutes there, too.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#6743 - 2014-10-04 21:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tikitina
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If, as they say they have, the null-sec folk have already worked out how to counter CCP's proposals, why is this thread so full of null-sec folk threatening to quit all their X number of accounts?

Surely being unable to hot drop cruisers on the other side of the Eve universe is not worth rage quitting over.

I would suggest that folk reserve judgment until CCP reveal the rest of their plans for null-sec.

Then, as with all the changes CCP make, folk can at least threaten to rage quit with all the facts at hand.


Knee jerk reactions from those who follow, not lead.

Leaders have already come with ways to adapt. Followers are starting to hear about them, but not all.

Besides, everyone wants to have a chance at being the one that can say, I told you so...
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6744 - 2014-10-04 22:02:34 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If, as they say they have, the null-sec folk have already worked out how to counter CCP's proposals, why is this thread so full of null-sec folk threatening to quit all their X number of accounts?

Surely being unable to hot drop cruisers on the other side of the Eve universe is not worth rage quitting over.

I would suggest that folk reserve judgment until CCP reveal the rest of their plans for null-sec.

Then, as with all the changes CCP make, folk can at least threaten to rage quit with all the facts at hand.


Knee jerk reactions from those who follow, not lead.

Leaders have already come with ways to adapt. Followers are starting to hear about them, but not all.

Besides, everyone wants to have a chance at being the one that can say, I told you so...


The bulk effect of these changes wont be apparent.

There is definitely going to be a legion of people quick to display an ability just to say "see told you we can still do this told you so"

The real measure will be read after a several month burn-in period. When what can theoretically be done is more able to be differentiated fron practical day-to-day reality.

There is also the time it will take for new groups to form, adapt and discover new ways to create content, which will lag behing the previously stated group.

I expect nothing to change overnight
And the usual suspects to bend over backwards pointing to that as some perceived 'i told you so'

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#6745 - 2014-10-04 22:03:46 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:

Also boo you, CCP is creating content, i lost my carrier movement too but im going to deal with it none the less

Deal with it none the less = Not use the capital ships I spent so much time training for anything other than ratting or home defense.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

JC Anderson
Capitalist Army
#6746 - 2014-10-04 22:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Jenn aSide wrote:
Oh, btw, can any of the people who think EVE is about to go back to the 'golden days' of convoys link me the videos from back then showing Convoys protected by Nano Triage Carriers that can take gates and warp as fast as battleships?

I'll wait Twisted


Our's didn't use Triage carriers in the ASCN. This was in 05/06 if I remember correctly. Usually there would be a couple dozen freighters or so, along with an escort of a few hundred battleships.

In addition, we had a fairly good sized scout fleet ahead, and another behind us in case anybody wanted to be sneaky.

We used the web trick that people have mentioned numerous times in this thread to help the freighters along. Since there was no warp to 0 at the time, we also used regional bookmark sets shared between the fleet. Otherwise everybody would be landing at 15k out and that's no fun at all. ;)

Trip each way took 4 to 6 hours, and rarely worked out as planned. :P We never went back on the same night, and would meet up the next day for the return trip back to ASCN space.

Although I cannot remember why we didn't use triage carriers in the convoys, I think it may have been because carriers were still pretty rare at that point in EVE. Super Carriers (called motherships at the time) were even more rare.... But part of the reason for that was because they were next to useless back in those days.

Lack of carriers could also have been because of gates. ;)

BOB and MC were our main concern, and although rare as mentioned above, they DID HAVE a fair number of caps to worry about.

Also didn't have to worry about Titans since there was only ONE in the entire game... Ours, and it was named Steve. BOB built the 2nd one, which ended up taking up taking the title of EVE's only titan away from us for a short while.... After making ours explode. :(

See, although this all sounds tedious, there is still one aspect that I truly miss. Enemy fleets would plan elaborate ambushes for Freighter convoys. A successful ambush, even if you only took out a few of your enemies freighters, was still a fairly big deal.

Even smaller corps and alliances could make waves and cause a crippling blow to a larger alliance with a single, well thought out attack against a freighter convoy.

That dynamic is no longer a part of EVE... And this is sad.
Scud Maximillion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6747 - 2014-10-04 22:10:44 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Monasucks wrote:
And another thing came up my mind with all those changes.
We play eve in our free time.
Now we should wait and sped our freetime haveing less fun and just idle for some kind of cooldown or by boaring travelling by gates?

CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cooldown and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!

Please consider this!




I think you and a lot of folks are missing the fatigue thing. CCP isn't looking to waste your time on cool down stuff. They're putting and end to large fleets of capitals zipping across new eden. You folks are just in denial. You keep saying tweak this and tweak that to make it a bit more bearable. The point of the changes are to make it stop.

I doubt they are going to make it even a little ok. They're going for ending the instant power projection, not make you waste your time. Accept it and find ways to play eve that don't involve what they are coding out of the game. You guys are putting soooooo much effort into hanging on to a system that isn't good for eve. Let it go (or freak out over timers for the next X number of years)

It's also taking out JF at the knees you say? Everyone is screaming how difficult logistics will be. That may be the point too. The bigger you are, the more the JF thing hurts. Are you getting it? They're taking steps to break the stagnation. If you insist on holding on to the present way of doing things.... It will suck by definition. The point is to innovate and find a new way and a new system.


Fine.

What the hell is the point of having a capital ship then? Isn't their sole purpose force projection? If they were intended to sit in their own space and never leave their home regions these changes should have been considered a long long time ago. A time when there were far less capital capable pilots and the affected player base would have been much smaller.

By that same logic, do you think that alliances will take battleship fleets through some 50 gates, traveling for hours, only to be blueballed or have a small skirmish? Do you see large power blocs using interceptors to grind sov structures?

How is null going to change based on this new mechanic? Do you think that now all of a sudden alliances that could never exist in null on their own are going to be able to take space or even hold onto it? That would imply uprooting one of the alliances already holding the space, and with what? Motley crew of cruisers, destroyers and a battleship or two?

Once again, the question is, what possible use do capital ships play in this new CCP envisioned universe? Why isn't it OK for an alliance to be able to move quickly through space? If they have routes prepared and logistically prepared themselves for quick deployments, why should they be knee capped and prevented from doing so by some stupid game mechanic that serves no other purpose than to be pain in the butt?

I mean seriously, do you see anyone uprooting PL or GSF or NC. from their home without force projection? Do you think these alliances will take their caps somewhere and let them be stuck and unable to defend their hoome? No. They will bring them home, only now nothing can counter them in their home. Good luck taking on full capital force of some alliance in their home system with your interceptor/quick travel gangs.

You want stagnation to end? It will end. It will turn entire null into ASCN.

Either that or we will all start a war before these ******** changes go in so we can at least get some heavy punches in before we're tied to the ring pole and given pillows for gloves.



I really don't think you get it. CCP is planning to kill off everything that made big alliances viable. Your perception is based on a reality that soon will not exist. Alliances will need to pick where live. All other space will become vulnerable. Perhaps not immediately, but absolutely long term. If you think there is any hope of holding the frontiers or preserving the rental empires you are dead wrong. You need to start rethinking who your friends are, and I suggest you start with the ones that live next door. When the crises hits, the ones threw regions away will not be there for you. I suspect this is the least radical change CCP has planned to make this a reality. Stop talking about the past.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#6748 - 2014-10-04 22:12:51 UTC
xttz wrote:
Probably a bit late to spitball, but what the hell.

1) Set all ship jump ranges to exactly 10 light years. Carriers, Titans, Blops, everything. Starbase JBs remain at 5LY.
2) Jump fatigue is measured from 1-100%. Whenever you jump, your fatigue is increased by whatever percentage of 10LY you jump. So a 4LY jump adds 40% fatigue, 8.5LY adds 85%, etc. Simple.
3) Fatigue decays on a curve akin to shields and cap regen, just in reverse. This means that it's much quicker to go from 30% to 20% than from 100% to 90%.
4) Until the fatigue decays completely, this percentage is a limit on subsequent jumps. Someone with a 90% fatigue cannot jump more than 1LY, while someone on 35% fatigue can jump up to 6.5LY
5) Special-cases like blops, freighters and JFs build fatigue at a reduced rate (50% is probably fair).
6) Training Jump Drive Calibration speeds up fatigue decay.

This is far simpler to understand for players, easier to do math on the fly, and means less sitting around waiting on cooldown timers doing nothing in what's meant to be a video game. Inter-region travel is just as slow, but local travel is viable. There's an incentive for players to make shorter jumps or take gates, as recovering from a long jump would take much longer than several shorter ones.
The higher range introduces a trade-off for jump-capable combat ships; the further away they hide the easier it is to make a surprise attack, but the harder it becomes to get away again. In the future, power projection can be tuned by simply adjusting the base rate of fatigue decay.

Examples:

An Archon pilot jumps from Sahkt to Karan, a distance of 6.32LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 63.2%. His next jump must be 3.68LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A jump freighter pilot jumps from CCP-US to DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at a reduced rate of 16.2% (half of 32.4%). His next jump must be 8.38LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A Rifter pilot takes a starbase jump bridge between CCP-US and DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 32.4%. His next jump must be 6.76LY or less, meaning he can use at least one more Jump Bridge immediately. This means a return trip is easily possible, but using more than 1-2 bridges means a lengthy delay.



not empty quoting ^^
HELLO CCP! are you there? this is how you should do things, easy and understandable for even me Idea ;
quick, give this man a medal and replace your crappy overcomplicated method with this one
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#6749 - 2014-10-04 22:22:06 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:


You also don't beat your cash cows up. It's undeniable cap pilots are dedicated long term players. Adding long station spinning inducing timers to the course of normal game play seems like a really boring way to punish those players for enjoying the game for so long.


These are just the old school cash cows. The ROAMBEAR is the new school cash cow. It's something you see more and more. PTW has become so prevalent in the MMO community at large that more and more it is drifting into Eve.

ROAMBEARS care for very little except PVP. They don't want to be bothered by such petty concerns as industry, organizational skills or marketing. The only way they can finance their PVP habits is with PLEX. You know some of these guys...... they log in every weekend, go out on roams, lose a couple of HACS....then spend Sunday evening shopping at Jita with PLEX money to refit what they will lose next weekend, and blogging about the death of small gang PVP in the game.

Rinse and Repeat.

The fact that they are generally low quality players actually increases their value to the game's bottom line. It certainly helps all of the industrial-capitalist carebears across the cluster to PLEX their accounts (and the accounts of their combat alts) by providing a never ending supply of prepaid subs on the market.

So don't be surprised if CCP doesn't tax some poor dev - Grayscale this time - with the onerous task of throwing a few ill advised rule changes their way to keep them happy and to help convince them that it really ISN'T their fault that they keep on losing and losing, and losing.

Veteran players will adapt. I've already made my prediction for the the results of the travel changes... :) Another BoB. But I did business with the old BoB, and I'll do business with the new one too. It is the total lack of concern for the economics that disturbs me the most.

The REAL nightmare future for Eve is one where the vital capitalism of the game is replaced by a seeded arms market... like many of the PTW MMOs....This is the kind of game where the ROAMBEAR reigns supreme, because his much deeper RL pockets will eventually wear the poorer opposition down and he will be able to buy victories that he wasn't able to earn for himself before.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Gwailar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6750 - 2014-10-04 22:24:30 UTC

Scud Maximillion wrote:
If you think there is any hope of holding the frontiers or preserving the rental empires you are dead wrong. You need to start rethinking who your friends are, and I suggest you start with the ones that live next door. When the crises hits, the ones threw regions away will not be there for you. I suspect this is the least radical change CCP has planned to make this a reality. Stop talking about the past.


Yes. This.
After 335+ pages, the truth dawns like the sun in the East.

"Stop talking about the past."

That's the whole spirit of EVE distilled into a single line. 1000 times yes. Adapt or die. Or quit. If you can't adapt to change, you're playing the wrong game.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat

uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
The Bastion
#6751 - 2014-10-04 22:29:21 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
afkboss wrote:
What needs to change is cynos. Make it so that a CNYO can only be jumped to by 2 ships. (Change the timer to a character timer so you cant just suicide then re cyno)


Jump 2 to a cyno.
Launch 2 rookie ships, light 2 cynos.
Jump 4, launch 4 rookie ships.
Jump 8...
16
32
64
128

That's 255 guys out in less than 5 minutes and they just leave the rookie ships behind.

This can be done 4 times for the whole fleet back-to-back. Tedium isn't good gameplay and it will be averted with stupid stuff like this.

Area based cyno lighting fatigue


Yeah but then we couldn't do things like the cyno vigil in UMI- after Vile Rat died.

From the formless void's gaping maw, there springs an entity.  Not an entity such as any you can conceive of, nor I; an entity more primordial than the elements themselves. In its wake there will follow a storm, as the appetite of nothing expands over the world. The Prophecy is true. Grayscale has come.

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#6752 - 2014-10-04 22:31:20 UTC
Gwailar wrote:

Scud Maximillion wrote:
If you think there is any hope of holding the frontiers or preserving the rental empires you are dead wrong. You need to start rethinking who your friends are, and I suggest you start with the ones that live next door. When the crises hits, the ones threw regions away will not be there for you. I suspect this is the least radical change CCP has planned to make this a reality. Stop talking about the past.


Yes. This.
After 335+ pages, the truth dawns like the sun in the East.

"Stop talking about the past."

That's the whole spirit of EVE distilled into a single line. 1000 times yes. Adapt or die. Or quit. If you can't adapt to change, you're playing the wrong game.

yea, i'm sure they come to own half of eve by not being able to adapt, lol
but, now that you told them what they need to do, i'm sure they will see the light and be saved...
SanDooD
Perkone
Caldari State
#6753 - 2014-10-04 22:35:32 UTC
Scud Maximillion wrote:


I really don't think you get it. CCP is planning to kill off everything that made big alliances viable. Your perception is based on a reality that soon will not exist. Alliances will need to pick where live. All other space will become vulnerable. Perhaps not immediately, but absolutely long term. If you think there is any hope of holding the frontiers or preserving the rental empires you are dead wrong. You need to start rethinking who your friends are, and I suggest you start with the ones that live next door. When the crises hits, the ones threw regions away will not be there for you. I suspect this is the least radical change CCP has planned to make this a reality. Stop talking about the past.


So, big ships made big alliances viable? Jumping 200-300 carriers made big alliances viable? Man, what the hell was I smoking until now? I thought large number of players made big alliances viable.

I don't know if I am the one with somewhat twisted perception. You seem to think that CFC and N3/PL is all of a sudden going to consolidate their entire space and renter empire into handful of systems in a single region or two and leave rest of the space open for grabs. I mean, read what you wrote again and think if that is what will actually happen.

My point is that this change will severely hinder, or potentially completely eliminate, some of how those big alliances interact in theater. With current sov mechanics, good luck taking any space away from any alliance holding it at this point. Sorry to pee in your cheerios, but the capital ships are not what makes any of the current null entities viable. Some focus on their capita/supercapital power, but they would exist without those just as well.

During Fountain war we didn't use our caps because there was always a chance of enemy escalating and dropping us with full supercapital force. Battle of 6VDT involved more subcaps than caps. Entire Delve region was ground in stealth bombers. Besides HED-GP and B-R in last years war, capitals were rarely, if ever used.

I'll give you that titans play a major role in getting fleets where they need to be and this mechanic affects that A LOT, but majority of wars are not fought with capitals and capitals alone. Some use it more than others and focus on them. They make structure grinds bearable. But they are not be all end all of large nullsec entities.

Additionally, when allies come to help, they don't all jump into carriers to travel to region where help is needed. Jump Clones are used for that with doctrine ship ready to go, and if JC is not available, interceptor can get you there in time for timer and fleet.

All I see coming from this change is more ship spinning/boredom/bitter vetness and more expensive logistics. I see very little change to the null unless null decides to make a change itself. Some consolidation and rearrangement of space may take place to make logistics more viable, but you go ahead and hope that by some CCP Miracle everyone will get a free shot at owning space in null now.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#6754 - 2014-10-04 22:44:13 UTC
SanDooD wrote:


Fine.

What the hell is the point of having a capital ship then? Isn't their sole purpose force projection? .....




Yes, but to what extent.

A capital ship that can only operationally get to an adjacent solar system projects power that far.
A capital ship that can only operationally get to an adjacent constellation projects power that far.
A capital ship that can only operationally get to an adjacent region projects power that far.
A capital ship that can operationally get to any region projects power that far.

Alliances have gotten the logistical expertise and equipment to be able to pre-stage enough resources throughout all of the Eve universe to allow them to operationally get anywhere on the map, and that is bad for everyone.

You can counter this by at least two different methods.
The logistical method, or the operational range of ships method.

CCP went with the operational range method probably because it is easier to factor, gauge and adjust in the future. It is less complicated than the logistical method, which would be more realistic.

The ability for forces to project power in the real world is more based upon logistics, than the operational range of the individual assets even though that can have a role as well, especially in the Navy.
But logistics is a highly complex and intensive discipline that to be good at and requires expertise in many different fields and significant investment in infrastructure to get the economies of scale to work for you.

It seems that CCP wants to limit any given asset cache to multi-constellation operational range which seems about right in my mind.

I think the proposed changes are an interesting way of going about it and have a good chance to produce the desired effect out of the box, but may need some additional adjustment in the next few releases to get it right.

Those of us who started playing before Caps ships were used much are probably less likely to see this as an issue.

Those of us who started playing later and built the entire premise of our characters around cap ships and have no idea of a game without them on some level probably has the biggest issue with this.

Overall, I think this is a great step to refresh this game in an unexpected manner.

I hope it goes live with the few noted adjustments.


Kun'ii Zenya
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#6755 - 2014-10-04 22:52:01 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
SanDooD wrote:


Fine.

What the hell is the point of having a capital ship then? Isn't their sole purpose force projection? .....




Yes, but to what extent.

A capital ship that can only operationally get to an adjacent solar system projects power that far.
A capital ship that can only operationally get to an adjacent constellation projects power that far.
A capital ship that can only operationally get to an adjacent region projects power that far.
A capital ship that can operationally get to any region projects power that far.

Alliances have gotten the logistical expertise and equipment to be able to pre-stage enough resources throughout all of the Eve universe to allow them to operationally get anywhere on the map, and that is bad for everyone.

You can counter this by at least two different methods.
The logistical method, or the operational range of ships method.

CCP went with the operational range method probably because it is easier to factor, gauge and adjust in the future. It is less complicated than the logistical method, which would be more realistic.




And the logistical too.
Kun'ii Zenya
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#6756 - 2014-10-04 22:53:49 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
[quote=Monasucks]And another thing came up my mind with all those changes.
We play eve in our free time.
Now we should wait and sped our freetime haveing less fun and just idle for some kind of cooldown or by boaring travelling by gates?

CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cooldown and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!

Please consider this!




I think you and a lot of folks are missing the fatigue thing. CCP isn't looking to waste your time on cool down stuff.



That they want to use fatigue to gimp force projection is fine.

But they are also doing it to people who are going to use jump drives who have absolutely no intention of engaging in combat what so ever.

I think it is different if you are talking about a gang of supers who are very much intent on engaging in combat, vs. a guy who is doing everything he can to avoid it.

In other words, fatigue for combat ships...okay. Fatigue, even with the JF bonus, not so fine. Logistics is not exactly fun. How do we know this:

1. Very few people do it.
2. They do it in ways to get it done as efficiently as possible.
3. They are often asked to do it.

That doesn't mean some don't like it--you find weird people everywhere that like all kinds of crazy things. And some might do it as a way of generating isk (e.g. the various Frog businesses).

Nerf power projection...fine. Nerfing logistics to this extent...not so fine. In fact, rather dubious.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#6757 - 2014-10-04 22:57:51 UTC
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:


Yar! Captain Neckbeard! will save yer game m8ty!Pirate


No.



But, Yes! (sarcasm)

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#6758 - 2014-10-04 22:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
t0Ny St4rkZ wrote:
bad drugs in island...

eve rip..



So true... but it's what happens when a Colombian submarine tries to travel that far Shocked

Should've just took gates

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Tare Bloodraven
My Test Corp
#6759 - 2014-10-04 23:07:18 UTC
This blog is just to make folks feel better by venting....it's not working.

You don't listen to any of this anyway and It's only your jobs at stake.

So, do what the players are gonna be forced to do!

CCP: HTFU make the change and EAT the outcome.

There are lots of really nice games for folks to play if you are wrong.
You'll know by Christmas the magnitude of your choices......
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6760 - 2014-10-04 23:14:03 UTC
xttz wrote:
Probably a bit late to spitball, but what the hell.

1) Set all ship jump ranges to exactly 10 light years. Carriers, Titans, Blops, everything. Starbase JBs remain at 5LY.
2) Jump fatigue is measured from 1-100%. Whenever you jump, your fatigue is increased by whatever percentage of 10LY you jump. So a 4LY jump adds 40% fatigue, 8.5LY adds 85%, etc. Simple.
3) Fatigue decays on a curve akin to shields and cap regen, just in reverse. This means that it's much quicker to go from 30% to 20% than from 100% to 90%.
4) Until the fatigue decays completely, this percentage is a limit on subsequent jumps. Someone with a 90% fatigue cannot jump more than 1LY, while someone on 35% fatigue can jump up to 6.5LY
5) Special-cases like blops, freighters and JFs build fatigue at a reduced rate (50% is probably fair).
6) Training Jump Drive Calibration speeds up fatigue decay.

This is far simpler to understand for players, easier to do math on the fly, and means less sitting around waiting on cooldown timers doing nothing in what's meant to be a video game. Inter-region travel is just as slow, but local travel is viable. There's an incentive for players to make shorter jumps or take gates, as recovering from a long jump would take much longer than several shorter ones.
The higher range introduces a trade-off for jump-capable combat ships; the further away they hide the easier it is to make a surprise attack, but the harder it becomes to get away again. In the future, power projection can be tuned by simply adjusting the base rate of fatigue decay.

Examples:

An Archon pilot jumps from Sahkt to Karan, a distance of 6.32LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 63.2%. His next jump must be 3.68LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A jump freighter pilot jumps from CCP-US to DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at a reduced rate of 16.2% (half of 32.4%). His next jump must be 8.38LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A Rifter pilot takes a starbase jump bridge between CCP-US and DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 32.4%. His next jump must be 6.76LY or less, meaning he can use at least one more Jump Bridge immediately. This means a return trip is easily possible, but using more than 1-2 bridges means a lengthy delay.


Not empty quoting

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