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Hyperion Must Go

Author
Kirin Artura Uitoh
Sanctioned Killers
Spatial Instability
#1 - 2014-08-31 13:44:33 UTC
Hyperion has been a complete disaster for the wormhole community IMO. The combination of jump mass changes, C4 additional static, and frigate holes has combined to make the perfect storm of an over-connected, under active and empty place in EVE.

Frankly, the changes that CCP has made over the last couple years have appeared to be with the intent to nerf WH space in general and the net effect is that there is less and less activity in wormhole space all the time.

It's pretty easy to see the direction that this is going is to eliminate the dynamic, adhoc, small group PVP that made wormhole space the most fun place in the game.

The question I have is why does CCP want to eliminate such a vibrant community within Eve online? Is it the lack of headline generating large fleets or because the wormhole fleets occasionally threaten Null bears?

Either way, simply looking at the lack of towers in so many wormholes as well as the lack of active pilots demonstrates that the Hyperion release is an unqualified disaster and will drive some if not many wormholers to leave Eve Online altogether.

CCP: Please stop ignoring your loyal userbase and rollback this release before it's too late!

-- Anonymous Wormhole Pilot

Georgia Aguilar
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#2 - 2014-08-31 14:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgia Aguilar
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers (i hope CCP is watching), but from my experience over the last couple of days I can holeheartedly agree with the OP. I actually ran into two seperate C4 corps who were evacing out of their holes.

Now it is my understanding that in EvE risk and rewards should balance. The jump mass distance spawn is "ok" in my book (as it makes the virtually risk free isk farming in higher class WHs not so risk free. BUT the plethora of WHs (and lack of other sites), as well as the poorish rewards in C1-C3 are way out of wack IMHO.




/sad panda

G.
Mcpate
Epicentre Syndicate
The Singularity.
#3 - 2014-08-31 14:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mcpate
Thank God college football season is here and dove season is just a few weeks away! WDE

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. Harry S. Truman

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#4 - 2014-08-31 14:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
I am not unhappy with it, mostly it's kinda "meh." Yes, it could have been better (smaller ships could spawn further out), but all in all its been not much different from my experience. Sig id's persisting is a huge improvement, c4 chains are a lot more interesting (although wanderings instead of more statics would be my recommendation) and the frig sized holes seem to offer possibilities although the stars have not aligned yet for me to have a great experience with them.

Perhaps we would gain more traction if we as a community talked to ccp about problems like mining in wspace is utterly impractical as a result of many cumulative changes starting with the discovery scanner or we are tired of going the same two pve sites over and over or the experience of living in a pos is still terrible or we want to feel more ownership and control over our homes or we are tired of scanning empty system after empty system for hours on end without encountering even a single pi hauler, or perhaps killmails could include everyone in fleet rather than ignoring the boosters, scouts and logi or whatever else it is that bothers you. It might be a lot more effective if we were to be a tiny bit grateful and also point out the root big picture issues rather than complaining about particular implementations or worse yet asking for people to lose real life jobs.
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#5 - 2014-08-31 14:35:37 UTC
Eh, if anything needs to go...

It's all the whiney threads.

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
#6 - 2014-08-31 14:44:23 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
Eh, if anything needs to go...

It's all the whiney threads.


This a million times.
Sinwalker
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-08-31 14:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinwalker
I don't really care about the changes, other than the fact that they aren't the right changes. They don't help us in the slightest find pvp or finance our operations. They give us new routes and stuff, to a more empty space. There is hardly any reward to living in the great unknown anymore, and carebears and pvpers alike are moving out, because there is better money elsewhere and there aren't as many people to shoot.

Why even come to wormholes anymore? The isk sucks, but instead you buff risk free PVE in highsec with incursions . This is supposed to be dangerous space with huge rewards to draw players in. Instead we get nerfed, our entire quality of life gets shoved in the trash, and we have less targets than ever. But sure, go ahead and buff the worry free highsec isk faucet. The hardcore, no local, sleeper ai, doesnt matter. We should be getting sleeper faction drops and stuff. High risk, high reward. Instead, we'll just go to highsec to make isk, and come back to WHs to shoot each other. What great design!

Trust me when I say shooting npcs with 1. local 2. concord 3. hs mechanics is alot different than shooting npcs with capitals or even in a drake by yourself, no local at all, and a 14au dscan to pound constantly, even then there is no saving you. There are no intel channels about fleets you can see coming 20 jumps away. You can't already have a scout in the wormhole that just opened into you 2 seconds ago in the middle of a wave. Why should in these places loot even be comparable?

We need something to draw people in, rewards for us having to go thru your bullshit mechanics. Give use sleeper faction loot, more things to make with nanoribbons, or something to make wormholes desirable to live in again. If the pvp dries up, you'll be losing some of the oldest wormholers in this community.

This entire thing is a joke, its obvious you didn't listen to anyone who actually know wormholes and use them everyday. What good is a frigate hole to a c4. Who does that help? Does it encourage pvp? Do you know what ships we pvp with in wormholes? Lets take this frig fleet vs some T3s!

Why do we have a CSM? You know every stable wormhole corp in the game, but you don't ask our CEO's or our directors for advice? What we see every day?

If it aint broke dont fix it. I wont say this will kill wormholes, although its already put a dent in them. But if these sort of changes continue, it'll be time to jump ship. You dun broke it.
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#8 - 2014-08-31 15:02:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gunner GzR
I think all the treads are not winy but the community feels they have been wronged.

CCP asked for input and got it then just totally ignored it.

Its funny how most ppl troll threads when It dose not affect them but fail to give thought to How or when it will happen to them or how it will affect them in the long term.

Less pilots in w space = less things to shoot


I feel the biggest Thing ever implemented up until now to hurt w space was incursions. This gave Pilots a option to make lots of isk without having to go into w space to run sights.

Now with the mass based jumps Smaller corps are hurt by this. Larger corps not so much except down the road when there is less to shoot at

2 . Delayed k162 spawns are a good change

3. Frig Holes are just Clutter and we are finding them mostly useless

4 re spawning mass on whs i really don't have a opinion on.

As i said Above we will see in the long run How detrimental this is to w space But the Future Dose not look bright.

If CCP was too remove local From low and Null this would make 0.0 and Low much more interesting to Fly in and remove some server load from the data base

PS Oh Yea hey Mcpate..Go Ducks!!!!

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please

Tisban
DefinitlyaPvPcorp LLC
Rainbow Knights
#9 - 2014-08-31 15:02:55 UTC
Nobody needs to lose their jobs, let's not start World War 3, it isn't totally terrible - it just failed to achieve the original aims of Hyperion and needs some tweaks to make Wormhole Space more viable to increase activity.

Since the release I've noticed a dramatic drop in the amount of pvp content in Wormholes. By pvp content I mean finding online people in POS's, plexers, miners, detecting probes/scouting activity on D-scan, and organised pvp. Organised pvp in itself hasn't taken much of a hit, it's risky because of the amount of holes but that's counter-balanced by it now being easier than ever to find a wormhole belonging to a specific corp you want to find, due the amount of connections. However, in wormhole space this accounts for a tiny minority of the actual pvp which takes place. This demonstrated by the amount of activity I've personally seen as well as other corp-mates who have been scanning for content, and even then it's usually people online in POS's or scouts, and while it can be possible to initiate a fight in wormhole space through these, it needs mutual desire for pvp which returns to the organised pvp category - and pvp in wormhole space is very rarely mutual.

Of course, these are my own accounts and there's very little I can do to back them up, but similar experiences to mine are currently being echoed in the various threads. A quick scan through Zkillboard in the W-Space menu supports what I'm saying - bigger gaps between the timestamps on kills and the kills that occur are very rarely on miners or plexers. It's just too risky for them at the moment, and the rewards for it in C1-C4 holes just aren't worth the risk - and if you're in a C5 or C6, you're probably also big enough to have scouts on every hole and therefore it's not as risky for them. Perfectly fine for large elite corps, terrible for fresh, less experienced corps with fewer numbers.

It's worth remembering that the prosperity potential in Wormhole Space is what opened the door to many people who are currently there, and lots of those who are currently leaving. Plexers and miners, and their desire to defend their plexing and mining wormholes, are what created the large amount of content we previously had. However the reward for these is the same but the risk is further higher - thus it is counter-productive in improving Wormhole Space as this patch set out to do. Either increase the reward, reduce the risk, or a combination of the two, and I imagine Wormholes will be back to being as full as they used to be - but we need something dramatic if people are going to start setting up new POS's anytime soon.

- Alt of Wormholer
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#10 - 2014-08-31 15:25:28 UTC
We live in c4 and find content in almost all our chains. Hyerion working as intended. Rolling is not difficult either
O'nira
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-08-31 15:28:16 UTC
ccp has already shown there complete unwillingess to communicate with you the player any further than general pr crap and i seriously doubt that they are gonna "roll back" any of the changes.

either you quit or move from w-space or just accept it and continue playing.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#12 - 2014-08-31 15:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
O'nira wrote:
ccp has already shown there complete unwillingess to communicate with you the player any further than general pr crap and i seriously doubt that they are gonna "roll back" any of the changes.

either you quit or move from w-space or just accept it and continue playing.


So accept what we are given or leave wormhole space?

I seem to remeber a fable about that.
Here we are

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_aesop_dog_wolf.htm

Is that the choice you wish for us?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Candyspy
Bebop Enterprises Ltd.
#13 - 2014-08-31 15:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Candyspy
calaretu wrote:
We live in c4 and find content in almost all our chains. Hyerion working as intended. Rolling is not difficult either


Really? I see gaps of days in your killboards with no kills at all before you go to lowsec to find some 'content'. But yeah, ignore the wormholers who scan all day and kill at least 20 ships in wormholes everyday. Feel free to keep discounting their experiences tho. Good job.

There is nothing incredibly bad about these changes, however there is nothing good to them either. They literally do nothing to help wormhole health and indeed weaken it as we have already seen people moving out. That means less content for everyone. I guess the highsec carebears and the nullbears have won this round.

All of us wormholers will have to unite and become lowsec pirates or a nullsec bloc (shudder).
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#14 - 2014-08-31 15:41:17 UTC
Candyspy wrote:
calaretu wrote:
We live in c4 and find content in almost all our chains. Hyerion working as intended. Rolling is not difficult either


Really? I see gaps of days in your killboards with no kills at all before you go to lowsec to find some 'content'. But yeah, ignore the wormholers who scan all day and kill at least 20 ships in wormholes everyday. Feel free to keep discounting their experiences tho. Good job.

There is nothing incredibly bad about these changes, however there is nothing good to them either. They literally do nothing to help wormhole health and indeed weaken it as we have already seen people moving out. That means less content for everyone. I guess the highsec carebears and the nullbears have won this round.

All of us wormholers will have to unite and become lowsec pirates or a nullsec bloc (shudder).


Don't pull out the Killboard Epeen measuring stick if you haven't got any kills on your toon since 2012

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Sinwalker
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-08-31 15:43:34 UTC
I've been in wormholes since they were formed. Wormholes were packed before incursions came out. I wonder why? Why did people choose risk free isk in highsec, than wormhole isk? Hopefully some game developer genius can tell me why that was a good idea? or was it just a good idea for their subscriptions?
Candyspy
Bebop Enterprises Ltd.
#16 - 2014-08-31 15:51:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Candyspy
Sith1s Spectre wrote:

Don't pull out the Killboard Epeen measuring stick if you haven't got any kills on your toon since 2012


7 year toon, only been in 1 corp, and I still have less than a mil sp (skill points: 768,576) and only 4 kills. crazy right? You sir are a great internet detective.
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#17 - 2014-08-31 15:57:40 UTC
Candyspy wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:

Don't pull out the Killboard Epeen measuring stick if you haven't got any kills on your toon since 2012


7 year toon, only been in 1 corp, and I still have less than a mil sp (skill points: 768,576) and only 4 kills. crazy right? You sir are a great internet detective.



This is what we do not need..infighting between pilots..Just stick to How the changes affect you good or bad

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please

Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#18 - 2014-08-31 15:58:48 UTC
Candyspy wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:

Don't pull out the Killboard Epeen measuring stick if you haven't got any kills on your toon since 2012


7 year toon, only been in 1 corp, and I still have less than a mil sp (skill points: 768,576) and only 4 kills. crazy right? You sir are a great internet detective.


Thanks!

I'm available for more case solving at a cheap rate of 100 mil an hour.


On the next episode of Sith the "Internet Detective" i'll discover where the Dusettes have gone.

♥ Sith

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant

Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-08-31 16:12:16 UTC
calaretu wrote:
We live in c4 and find content in almost all our chains. Hyerion working as intended. Rolling is not difficult either


I wouldn't say that is my experience so far. Rolling is meh just more tedious than before, it was hardly the most exciting thing ever before... now its just that bit more dull Roll.

So far many of the wh are just as devoid of action as before. admittedly i've not come across any peeps moving out yet.

Keeping an eye on site spawning mechanics, and no sites so far other than whs and one gas site (excluding regular anoms).

IMO, its way too early days to draw conclusions about the overall repercussions of this patch, and i approve of some of the intentions of the patch. But its hardly been a helping hand to lower class dwellers that's for sure.
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-08-31 16:49:32 UTC
I still think the changes are good for wormholes because that grants us good basic mechanics that people can meet and find each other to do pvp or ganking or whatever. But at the moment I see no reason for people that make it worth to settle or venture into w-space.

So this is a good point for CCP to make a statement how they plan to rebalance PvE and industrial content in wormholes so that the old residents stay or new players move in.

And yes that patch was again a good example how low the communication seems to be at CCP. Buffering high sec content and make risk content more risky. Strange…
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