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[Black Ops] Jumping Without a Cyno

Author
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1 - 2014-07-02 15:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Amended 9/18: A more complete plan for this can be found here

Amended 9/23: Here's a prototype icon for the rig (found in the above link)

An idea I got after reading something and having it appear in a dream I had last night. It's been confirmed that Black Ops are on the short list for rebalancing and changes, so here goes:

Give Black Ops the unique ability to jump between systems without a cyno, by locking on to a star's gravity well- you would land in a totally random position around the star.

This would give black ops a unique role in fleets and give them mobility no battleship has ever had before.

As for the rest of the stats, they wouldn't really have to change much, other than balancing their tank and weapons/bonuses to be more focused and effective.

Of course, the Jovians would have thought one step ahead and made it so that we can't jump to their systems (but if they didn't then woohoo, Jove space Big smile)


Tell me what you think- I would love a unique ability like this for this (admittedly quite awesome) ship class.



Here's the more complete idea from page 6:

'Solar Harmony Engine' (Icon)

'A highly specialized rig developed specifically for Black Ops vessels, this system must be fully integrated with the ship's hull to function. It allows a ship to make a jump directly to another system, as opposed to jumping to a Cynosural Field. The interference it causes prevents the use of Jump Bridges or normal Cynosural Fields, as well as regular jumping. However, the entire system doubles as a powerful ancillary processor and power core for the ship, slightly increasing its powergrid and CPU.'

Fitting:
Calibration Cost: 0
Rig Size: Large

Bonus:
5% bonus to CPU and Powergrid


Disallows use of Covert Jump Portal Generator and Cynosural Field Generator (still allows covert cynos to be lit)
Disallows Jumping directly to Cynosural Fields
Doubles fuel cost

Can be fitted to: Redeemer, Widow, Sin, Panther, (Nestor- I can dream P)

  • Ship must align to star, much like when warping to a target, making it not an instant jump out of the system
  • Ship will land in a randomly chosen spot along a set radius of the target star's grid (say 50-75km, maybe larger)
  • Icon is a Large MJD icon with a purple thruster color instead of red
  • Under Astronautics Rigs

  • This allows the concept of a Sun Jump (I'm loving that nickname Big smile) to be applied in a balanced manner- of course, it's always open to change and improvement. Having the system rigged to the ship prevents easily changing between being able to sun jump and being able to bridge or light a cyno (using a mobile depot), at least not without significant cost, and adding a small fitting bonus helps mitigate the loss of a rig slot for it. Having the ship lose its ability to bridge or light normal cynos (it may still light a Covert Cyno) and doubling the fuel cost, as well as disallowing normal jumping, acts as a balance to the huge increase in mobility the ship gains. Also, perhaps the modification could add a 'cooldown timer' for the ship's jump drive- after all, jumping solitarily to a distant star must put enormous stress on a ship (and letting it jump again immediately could be taken as overpowered). Maybe a 45 second timer, linked to the Black Ops skill, and reduced to 15 seconds at level V.
    Saelem Black
    Cog Banking
    #2 - 2014-07-02 16:00:50 UTC
    Its been suggested before, many many times.

    Personally, I would love it, but it steps on the toes of hot droppers or others who use the cyno as a way to land reinforcements in the middle of the battle.

    I kind of think the whole mechanic of cynos is greedy business practice, actually. CCP forces higher level players to pay for two accounts instead of one, and for that reason alone, this will never happen. How many players have cyno alts, I wonder. When I flew blackops, I certainly did.

    Alternative suggestions are; being able to lock onto covert capable fleet members and jump to their position (without them having to light a cyno) or only requiring the cyno for bridging, not jumping.
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #3 - 2014-07-02 16:03:24 UTC
    Saelem Black wrote:
    or only requiring the cyno for bridging, not jumping.

    That's actually what I was going for here- I should edit the OP to show that- it would give the individual ship enormous mobility, but bridging would still need a cyno to lock on to.
    Rek Seven
    The Persuaders
    #4 - 2014-07-02 16:14:04 UTC
    I suggested this after reading The Lost Fleet to Blink
    Frostys Virpio
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #5 - 2014-07-02 16:43:20 UTC
    At that point, requiring a cyno to bridge is redundant as you could just jump another BLOP and light a cyno ?????
    Bohneik Itohn
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #6 - 2014-07-02 16:49:14 UTC
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    At that point, requiring a cyno to bridge is redundant as you could just jump another BLOP and light a cyno ?????



    I've seen plenty of fleets with 30-50 Black ops ships, I'm pretty sure one of them can fit a cyno. Meanwhile, 30-50 black ops ships have just arrived with no warning.

    Correction: The 30-50 black ops ships WERE the warning.

    Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

    Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

    Frostys Virpio
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #7 - 2014-07-02 16:58:29 UTC
    Bohneik Itohn wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    At that point, requiring a cyno to bridge is redundant as you could just jump another BLOP and light a cyno ?????



    I've seen plenty of fleets with 30-50 Black ops ships, I'm pretty sure one of them can fit a cyno. Meanwhile, 30-50 black ops ships have just arrived with no warning.

    Correction: The 30-50 black ops ships WERE the warning.


    You land at a random point so you still have to find your target before bad/good things start to happen.

    Session change > load grid > find target in system > align > warp > land > lock > shoot/point.

    People currently getting caught will still get caught. People not getting caught will even less because they will see a much more massive spike in system telling hem it's hot-drop-o'clock and they should GTFO.
    Rek Seven
    The Persuaders
    #8 - 2014-07-02 17:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
    So what's your point? Are you for it or against it?

    It wouldn't change anything other than making blackops a better ship. A cyno would still be required for precision jumping so they would be far from redundant.

    Sadly it isn't going to happen anyway as it would probably involve too much work for CCP.
    Frostys Virpio
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #9 - 2014-07-02 17:07:20 UTC
    Rek Seven wrote:
    So what's your point? Are you for it or against it?

    It wouldn't change anything other than making blackops a better ship.

    Sadly it isn't going to happen anyway as it would probably involve too much work for CCP.


    I'm against because it's a change that bring nothing new. You made bridging still require a cyno but that's only an illusion of not being able to bridge wherever you want because you were to need a BLOP on the other system anyway to bridge the gang back home so he can bling jump, light his own cyno and you the bridge the fleet without having to slow boat a cyno to that system. It's basicly a **** ton of code to save people the hassle of having a cyno alt slowboating around.
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #10 - 2014-07-02 17:19:48 UTC
    Well I wouldn't say it wouldn't bring anything new- it'd open up a whole new slew of possibilities for Black Ops pilots to do a lot more than they could before, and make them have a totally unique role in the ship lineup.

    They could jump in at a totally random position on their own, but couldn't bridge in the rest of a fleet to an accurate position without using a cyno in the system first- that wouldn't really open any OP playstyles up at all.

    All it'd do would be to make the Black Ops ships a desirable class and the most mobile battleship.

    Oh, and if it wasn't restricted, this could mean that they'd be able to do this in high-sec, too- no cynos or bridging, but star-hopping (to coin a phrase) would let the ships jump around in a very useful way.

    Also... I have no knowledge of whether or not you actually do know code for EVE, but I'd trust CCP's judgement first on what it'd take to make this possible.
    Rek Seven
    The Persuaders
    #11 - 2014-07-02 17:25:35 UTC
    As it is, no ship can jump without a cyno (not counting pos mod) so it would in fact "add something new".

    Heaven forbid people could play this game without requiring an alt. Shocked

    Bohneik Itohn
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #12 - 2014-07-02 17:41:34 UTC
    Yeah, don't get me wrong I love the idea of solo players being able to do all sorts of new things with black ops ships. This is right up my alley. I just thought it would cause some big problems with usual sov life. However consensus from sov residents seems to disagree so I'll concede to their experience.

    Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

    Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

    Fer'isam K'ahn
    SAS Veterinarians
    #13 - 2014-07-02 18:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
    Sov ? Isn't that the stagnate broken feature everyone is unhappy with ? Wouldn't want any suggestion being tainted by considering that.

    That said, I'd love Black Ops to be the only jump ship in the game, it might break something, it might not, I ll love to see that, even only if some High Secers think its safe now to jump to low and lose an arm, a leg and the rest trying tot run that level 3 distribution mission to low°°

    +1 for the balls to suggest and implement it ,)
    Bronson Hughes
    The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
    #14 - 2014-07-02 19:11:21 UTC
    Ignoring the merits of the idea for a moment: CCP has stated on several occasions (and implemented changes accordingly) that they don't like the idea of players being easily able to create safe spots that aren't in scan range of a celestial object. Letting a BlOps do what you propose in a system of sufficient size would do exactly that. On this alone, I doubt CCP would ever implement it.

    That aside, I think this idea also presents some interesting gameplay possibilities, along with nuanced balance issues. With this change in effect, it would be trivial for a properly-equipped BlOps fleet to form a covert jump portal chain of arbitrary length. Say you have N BlOps, all equipped with covert cynos and covert jump portals. N-1 BlOps jump into the first system. N-2 BlOps jump into the second, and so on. Each BlOps (except the first) would end up in totally random (and thus reasonably safe) positions in the systems along the route. Each one bridges the covert fleet to the next BlOps until said fleet hits their destination. This would allow users to set up a temporary (maybe even quasi-permanent if the bridge ships are judiciously logged off and/or cloaked when not in use) covert jump bridge network that could run from hisec to anywhere in losec or nullsec without ever using a single stargate.

    This would represent pretty much the ultimate form of power projection, and interestingly enough, it would be of most benefit to smaller corps/alliances that don't hold sov and don't have access to an established network of jump bridges.

    Could this be the great power projection equalizer? Maybe. It could also be horribly broken. Who knows.

    Relatively Notorious By Association

    My Many Misadventures

    I predicted FAUXs

    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #15 - 2014-07-02 19:23:29 UTC
    Bronson Hughes wrote:
    Ignoring the merits of the idea for a moment: CCP has stated on several occasions (and implemented changes accordingly) that they don't like the idea of players being easily able to create safe spots that aren't in scan range of a celestial object. Letting a BlOps do what you propose in a system of sufficient size would do exactly that. On this alone, I doubt CCP would ever implement it.


    I see what you're saying- but I just wanted to respond to the first part by saying this is nothing like the deep space safes there used to be- those were literally waaaaaay out of the system- now the outer limits of any system is 10AU beyond the orbit of the furthest celestial (planet, stargate, et cetera), beyond which you can't make bookmarks or warp to.

    This would simply put the ship in a random position around the system's star, making it well within scan range and not giving deep space safe areas.

    Also, I think the idea of a covert chain caravan would be amazing for smaller entities- it'd allow small corps and alliances to navigate usefully, and make travelling through low and null easier, possibly resulting in more emergent gameplay.

    After all, the only star-hopping ship class would be Black Ops, at least with this suggestion Smile
    Tikitina
    Doomheim
    #16 - 2014-07-02 19:28:54 UTC
    Rek Seven wrote:
    As it is, no ship can jump without a cyno (not counting pos mod) so it would in fact "add something new".

    Heaven forbid people could play this game without requiring an alt. Shocked




    I think that would go against the current business model for this game.

    The easiest way to keep increasing subscriptions is to get those already interested(sub'd) to buy more accounts.

    Skydell
    Bad Girl Posse
    Somethin Awfull Forums
    #17 - 2014-07-02 19:34:17 UTC
    T2 Hulls aren't PvP friendly due to the insurance system. We will never see a fleet of 250 Black Ops Battleships on a grid when losing even 2% of the fleet will cost more than wiping an entire enemy fleet.

    There will always be that one time someone used a T2 Hull based fleet to do something for shizzles but the rest of the time, T1 hulls were used.

    If they revamp the POS to have 2, 4 or 6 docking points and they allow the POS to have limited use of the ships docked, I can see a huge demand for Black Ops. Imagine a POS with a Black Ops docked at it, being allowed to bridge covert as a result. Even if the docking ring was outside the bubble like jump bridge networks, I suspect you would see a lot more demand for them.
    IceAero
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #18 - 2014-07-02 19:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: IceAero
    I think this is a pretty awesome idea.

    BlackOps obviously need love, and something 'new' is best.

    Jumping into any system within range and landing within 5AU of the star would be a very interesting change to their usefulness.

    +1

    Balance proposals:

    -- Link this ability with an (expensive) active high-slot module which:
    1) Can only be activated uncloaked
    2) Drops your velocity to 0
    3) Has a 5-10 second activation delay after decloaking
    4) a 30-60 second cool-down after jumping, during which time you cannot cloak or jump again.
    5) Increased fuel costs for the jump

    More balance: If you fit this module on a ship, then you Cannot fit a cyno at all. This prevents any changes to existing cyno mechanics.
    Alternative Splicing
    Captain Content and The Contenteers
    #19 - 2014-07-02 20:13:24 UTC
    Idea is good so long as there are measures put in place to avoid having them become too useful for transport or traveling.

    It always struck me as strange that there was so little actual espionage you could do with black ops ships. It would be interesting if they could either disable POS defenses, or prevent a POS/structure from sending a notification to its owners when it was under attack or reinforced. That would make them useful and create content. Imagine if the owners of POS empires actually had to pay attention, and didn't have perfect guidance for when and where to send the fleet? It would actually be black ops rather than just hotdrop light. Let them be the tools such that a smaller group can really harass a larger group.

    Another idea would be to give black ops a cyno which could pose as another person's cyno so long as they are in the same system. Fits thematically, and would be unique and no doubt generate lots of content.


    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #20 - 2014-07-02 20:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    IceAero wrote:
    I think this is a pretty awesome idea.

    BlackOps obviously need love, and something 'new' is best.

    Jumping into any system within range and landing within 5AU of the star would be a very interesting change to their usefulness.

    +1

    Balance proposals:

    -- Link this ability with an (expensive) active high-slot module which:
    1) Can only be activated uncloaked
    2) Drops your velocity to 0
    3) Has a 5-10 second activation delay after decloaking
    4) a 30-60 second cool-down after jumping, during which time you cannot cloak or jump again.
    5) Increased fuel costs for the jump

    More balance: If you fit this module on a ship, then you Cannot fit a cyno at all. This prevents any changes to existing cyno mechanics.

    I like this a lot- it'd be like a Black Ops equivalent of the Bastion Module Marauders got.

    I actually feel you may have imposed a little too many limitations though- maybe it could narrow down to:

  • 'Cannot Warp/Jump for a set time after Jumping' timer, say 60 seconds (30 seconds at BLOPS V)
  • 'Cannot activate Cynosural Field Generator/Covert Cynosural Field Generator while module is online' restriction

  • Maybe some other things as well.

    I'm so glad to see positive feedback Big smile
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