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Reduce the training requirement to inject Light Drone Operation

Author
Titus Tallang
EVE University
Ivy League
#1 - 2014-06-28 22:28:26 UTC
Just a quickie.

With the changes to drone skills in Kronos, Hobgoblins (and other light scout drones) now require the new Light Drone Operation skill as opposed to the old Scout Drone Operation (now Drone Avionics) skill.

However, I feel like there's a slight oversight in the execution of this change. As Light Drone Operation is one half of the old Combat Drone Operation skill, it - like Combat Drone Operation used to - requires the generic Drones skill to level III to inject.

Now, while the roughly 3 hours of training time to get a 1x multiplier skill to level III is quite irrelevant to veteran players, I would believe that this could have quite a significant impact on a brand new player trying the game for the first time and that is progressing through the tutorials. For these players, waiting 3 hours to try out the first Civilian drone they just got will be, at best, a nuisance and, at worst, may even lead to them discarding the weapon system entirely for the first few days of playing the game.

To resolve this, I'd suggest a very simple change to bring training requirements for "baby's first drone", essentially, back to what they used to be before Kronos - change the requirement to inject Light Drone Operation to Drones I (from III) while leaving the requirement for Medium Drone Operation at Drones III.

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Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#2 - 2014-06-28 22:34:10 UTC
Titus Tallang wrote:
Just a quickie.

With the changes to drone skills in Kronos, Hobgoblins (and other light scout drones) now require the new Light Drone Operation skill as opposed to the old Scout Drone Operation (now Drone Avionics) skill.

However, I feel like there's a slight oversight in the execution of this change. As Light Drone Operation is one half of the old Combat Drone Operation skill, it - like Combat Drone Operation used to - requires the generic Drones skill to level III to inject.

Now, while the roughly 3 hours of training time to get a 1x multiplier skill to level III is quite irrelevant to veteran players, I would believe that this could have quite a significant impact on a brand new player trying the game for the first time and that is progressing through the tutorials. For these players, waiting 3 hours to try out the first Civilian drone they just got will be, at best, a nuisance and, at worst, may even lead to them discarding the weapon system entirely for the first few days of playing the game.

To resolve this, I'd suggest a very simple change to bring training requirements for "baby's first drone", essentially, back to what they used to be before Kronos - change the requirement to inject Light Drone Operation to Drones I (from III) while leaving the requirement for Medium Drone Operation at Drones III.


Makes sense, since drones have become a pillar of EVE combat right along with lasers, hybrids, projectiles, and missiles it makes sense that there should be a way to easily get into using them right out of the box.

+1
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#3 - 2014-06-28 22:39:30 UTC
There is no real reason why this shouldn't be a thing.

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Anamari Martinozzi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-06-28 23:32:40 UTC
This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version?
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2014-06-29 01:30:18 UTC
Anamari Martinozzi wrote:
This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version?

Because drones are not a primary weapon system until you get into larger ship classes, regardless of what other may think.

Kaerakh wrote:
Makes sense, since drones have become a pillar of EVE combat right along with lasers, hybrids, projectiles, and missiles it makes sense that there should be a way to easily get into using them right out of the box.

Let the rookies get into the swing of controlling one type of weapon system before you start throwing more and more systems at them. If they need to learn how to control their own ship's weapons, they don't need the added confusion of having to remember to launch drones, recall them before warping out, when to put them on passive vs aggressive, etc. Once they've gotten the hang of flying and fighting on their own, 3 hours won't mean anything to them just like us bittervets.
Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-06-29 01:42:35 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Anamari Martinozzi wrote:
This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version?

Because drones are not a primary weapon system until you get into larger ship classes, regardless of what other may think.



Gotta disagree with this. There are 6 T1 frigates just between Amarr and Caldari that rely heavily on drones. Immediately after that you have the Dragoon and Algos destroyers.

That given, no. 3 hours is not a big deal, but every other skill book you're required to use for the tutorials only requires level 1 to complete the mission, if I'm not mistaken, so this skill shouldn't be an exception to that rule which keeps the tutorials rolling along smoothly.

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Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#7 - 2014-06-29 01:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Discomanco
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Anamari Martinozzi wrote:
This makes sense, for every other weapon system you can use their basic version at Level I, so why would you need Level III for Drones to use their basic version?

Because drones are not a primary weapon system until you get into larger ship classes, regardless of what other may think.

Kaerakh wrote:
Makes sense, since drones have become a pillar of EVE combat right along with lasers, hybrids, projectiles, and missiles it makes sense that there should be a way to easily get into using them right out of the box.

Let the rookies get into the swing of controlling one type of weapon system before you start throwing more and more systems at them. If they need to learn how to control their own ship's weapons, they don't need the added confusion of having to remember to launch drones, recall them before warping out, when to put them on passive vs aggressive, etc. Once they've gotten the hang of flying and fighting on their own, 3 hours won't mean anything to them just like us bittervets.

Well, lets look at that again.
if Tristan, Algos and Dragoons (especially Dragoon) main weapons systems are NOT drones, something is wrong.
Is it because they have a second bonus to other weapon systems (except for Dragoon) or turret slots in general? Gallente advanced military introduces them to their secondary weapon system, drones as well as giving a drone ship (Tristan). All 3 function very well as drone ships with secondary weapon systems (turrets)

As for "let the rookies learn", drones are introduced in the Gallente Advanced Military Career where they are given their first Civilian drones (which for some reason has skill requirements), just like Caldari gets introduced missiles, but is that too much? So since they are given drones during tutorial, why should they wait 4-5 hours to use them, when other secondary weapons systems are just around 15mins?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-06-29 02:00:38 UTC
My initial kneejerk reaction was "no, it's only a few hours so who cares?"

But asking for the change for the sake of streamlining NPE makes a lot of sense.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Kristalll
Pod Born
#9 - 2014-06-29 02:38:35 UTC
Wouldn't it just make sense to have the civilian drone not take skills into account just like other civilian weapons?

No need to change the skills for real drones.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.

Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-06-29 02:41:40 UTC
Kristalll wrote:
Wouldn't it just make sense to have the civilian drone not take skills into account just like other civilian weapons?

No need to change the skills for real drones.


This is also a very reasonable proposition, and more easily achieved.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

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Elusive Panda
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-06-29 05:07:38 UTC
I'm usually against any shortening or shortcut in the skill tree, but you make very compelling arguments.

+1
Revan Reznor
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-06-29 11:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Revan Reznor
Makes sense to me. At the very least remove or reduce the skill requirement for the civilian drones to simply Drones I in order to streamline the tutorial.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#13 - 2014-06-29 13:02:30 UTC
There are civilian combat drones ?

Besides that, yes , it doesn't make sense to not have the drone skill in line with all other weapon systems.

And while we talk about that, the civilian mining drone that does exist, needs a few skills, usually civilians don't need any skills - fix that too (or at least to level 1 req) ?
Artyom Hunter
Origin.
Fraternity.
#14 - 2014-06-29 15:18:42 UTC
+1

Small change, makes sense, keep mediums at Drones III and lower lights to Drones I.

If new players are introduced to drones via the tutorial (Haven't tried the new tutorial), some might not be patient enough to wait 3 hours before they can try them out.

A lot of new players probably aren't used to the waiting for skills and patience required to play EVE.
Sofia Fay
Tash-Murkon Tactical Unit
#15 - 2014-06-29 15:57:10 UTC
Recently started playing EVE.
Training up skills for Tormentor (Amarr frigate).
Wanted to use drones... trained drones level 1, level 2, level 3, light drones level 1.
Tormentor can only use 2 light drones?!?

So yes please, let frigate pilots use drones sooner!
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#16 - 2014-06-29 16:00:12 UTC
Supported.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#17 - 2014-06-29 16:05:05 UTC
+1

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#18 - 2014-06-29 17:54:30 UTC
Supported.

Remove standings and insurance.

Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#19 - 2014-06-30 08:50:00 UTC
Not a bad idea.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#20 - 2014-06-30 09:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Moran
Skill requirement for using 'Civilian Hobgoblins' is 'Drones' at level 1.

Hardly a problem.

EDIT: My bad. That is the skill requirements on SiSi, on TQ it is as OP said. So I guess CCP is aware of this and has fixed the issue.

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