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Dude CCP really?....... really? A garmur thread.

Author
DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-06-07 00:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2014-06-07 01:20:51 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.



The Orthus is worse imo.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Dato Koppla
Did he say Jump
#3 - 2014-06-07 01:40:15 UTC
Maybe nerf booster alts? I'm sure the tank on it is paper thin and Interceptors/Fast T1/Faction frigs will be able to scram it and kill it if you don't have the massive booster alt advantage on them.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-07 02:03:35 UTC
The cruiser does have enough fitting for all the things. I haven't indicted in one yet but eft says it is a scary beast of a ship.

On that note... ISD please move this thread to C&P. These complaints are a crime
Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
#5 - 2014-06-07 02:08:06 UTC
I like the Garmur and the Orthrus As they are, sure it might seem unusual for a frigate to have the tackle range of say an Arazu, but your still doing meager DPS ( high for a frig but not vs anything else really )

And not everyone will have a booster alt running with theirs or Snakes like i ( Think ) yours may. The ship is really quite nice in the hands of an average pilot, its when exceptional pilots step in that a ship becomes well "Exceptional" especially when what most of that means is More SP, More ISK, and Alts

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-06-07 02:17:52 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.


I seriously doubt your stats. It is a pretty powerful platform but without hg plants and alts its not nearly as op as you're making it out to be
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#7 - 2014-06-07 03:32:06 UTC
I have too disagree for what it's worth... very few people can bring the skills needed to the table to actually fly these at the level they can be considered OP.

An average pilot in a t2 fitted worm = god.
An average pilot in a t2 fitted garmur = an annoyance.

Bare in mind you also have the ability to pick the right fights and get the right engagement most of the time. This ship really rewards that. Looking at your killboard you've not really tested yourself in it either by the looks of it (although killboards rarely show a fight for what it actually is and I do not mean to disrespect the people you were fighting as some of them may indeed have been skilled pilots).

So far I would say it's fine, although as the meta plays out we will find out I am sure.


Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#8 - 2014-06-07 05:29:47 UTC
And then a dramiel with links, HG snakes and an attitude speedtanks your missiles and either you gtfo or he manages to land a scram on you.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#9 - 2014-06-07 07:31:16 UTC
Are u ppl really bringing skill into this? Really?

Its impossible to catch and will be a serious pain in the backside for almost anything, anyone, gang or solo, without bringing skill into the equation. All an inty can ever hope to do to it is to drive it away or die trying..
carbomb
Super Team Munkey
#10 - 2014-06-07 08:37:46 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.





cant get near your stats except point range) even with hg snakes & maxed loki links. That must be some fit you got there.....
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#11 - 2014-06-07 08:55:45 UTC
How is this fundamentally different from a crow with snakes/booster?

That also points you out to 45k cold without faction, and does around 70% of that dps...
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-06-07 09:18:31 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
How is this fundamentally different from a crow with snakes/booster?

That also points you out to 45k cold without faction, and does around 70% of that dps...

Looks like you already got it.

The Crow is already borderline.
The Garmur break that line with more point range and more dps.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#13 - 2014-06-07 09:51:52 UTC
It's more like snakes/links can create a big gap in powerlevel if your weapon system (light missiles) allows to fully exploit the range, comparing to a ship without any of the two.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#14 - 2014-06-07 09:55:30 UTC
Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.

I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#15 - 2014-06-07 10:05:41 UTC
Considering DBH Wildcat used to PvP in a 5-6 bill officer fit Mach... I imagine his Garmur is probably worth 1.5b or more not including his pod.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2014-06-07 10:20:01 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.

I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP.



What? Loads of people run exactly that in low sec.. And sure you could get gate camped.. But how often does that happen? I've died to gatecamps maybe five or six times total..

As for people saying those stats aren't real, they are but they are with heat.

The thing you have to take into consideration is how insanely stuff like point range and speed synergizes with lml's.. Thats the biggest problem here, if the garmur had guns you wouldn't be able to do any of that **** because orbiting at 8km would mean you hit ****.

Bring lml's down to the level of small rails and beams when it comes to damage projection at range and the garmur will be a much more reasonable ship. The Garmur and Orthus just show really really well how stupid links and lml's are atm.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#17 - 2014-06-07 11:15:12 UTC
Once you add in mandatory skirmish links the damage application from LML against small ships is not good. Standard Crash is almost mandatory to compensate. Are you only talking about their range?
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#18 - 2014-06-07 11:32:45 UTC
Sooooo, here's what a Garmur can look like before links, imps and drugs. Just with some bling, which certainly is in the price range if you wanna fly this jewel.

Derp



Now show me the ship that isn't a Garmur, Gallente or Minmatar Recon / EAF that can catch this one. (Which are basically the ship a Garmur pilot should know are a threat to him.)

And here is how it could look as a Fleet Tackler in 0.0.


Damn, actually, i might get me one now. Or 2.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#19 - 2014-06-07 12:12:01 UTC
A linked Rail-Devil is 1 good old fashioned slight shot away from grabbing it, thanks to 10 second MWD cycles another frig can get a nice overheat and catch faster frigs (p.s. MWD cycles being shorter for 1MN variants seems like a really beneficial change IMO) - the extreme range the garmur will operate at is the only thing that might give trouble - but if we rewind and imagine you are in another frig 40+km away and MWD'ing directly away from the garmur, the light missiles wont even touch you. A 10 sec MWD cycle on most t1 frigs moves them over 35KM.

I'm not denying its a good ship, or that Wildcat will roll with expensive stuff, but i'd say the performance quoted from this frig is almost prohibitively expensive given how often it will die. A Mach has a decent chance to crash a gate or 1-shot an unexpected tackler which gives it the 9-lives of a cat in real PVP environments, making it worth the cost.

If we're talking about using this as a tackler, why not just use an EAF and save cash. That 130dps means nothing against something bigger than a frig. Cruisers will have time to de-aggress and jump and if you win a 1v1 fight with a frig (which it wont win against the plethora of Dual-Rep AB frigs there are) then you've still spent a few billion isk just to kill another frigate... It'll work once then the guy brings his rapier alt and grabs the easiest 1bil KM of his Eve career. Good luck using a single rapier against a Mach.

As an addendum I'll say this: I think light missiles need a range adjustment. Its too far right now. This ship is definitely powerful but i think it's hull size balances out its use in real situations.
Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#20 - 2014-06-07 13:29:58 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.


This is really more of an argument to nerf links than it is to nerf the garmur.

Garmur on SISI with no links and only t2 mods available is nothing impressive.
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