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“One way ticket” or nerf of capitals and supercapitals…

Author
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-09 17:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: AA10
The biggest ships in Eve universe use gigantic mechanisms which allow them to travel all around the world… But technologies are not perfect… Deterioration of these gigantic mechanisms leads to costly and time consuming repairs…

So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.

Also I think that deterioration should affect ability to jump ships using titans. I think the best criteria is total weight of jumped ships. 500 jumps of battleships and repair is needed. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/10 of hull cost and takes 1/5 of building time.

Capitals are smaller and they could serve longer. For example, they could jump up to 300ly until repair required and repair could cost 1/4 of hull cost and 1/3 of building time.

We could add new type of shipyard: "Capital repair shipyard", which could be set to any large POS without any claim requirements.

Other small nerfs related with deterioration:
1. Doomsday device should have limited number of shots. Let’s say 5. Then it has to be replaced.
2. Supercarriers bombers: each start of bomber should deteriorate supercarrier’s start mechanisms. After 100 starts of bombers, the supercarrier should go to shipyard for repair. This kind of repair will cost 1/4 of hull cost and take 1/4of building time.
3. Capital’s remote repair and energy transfers should stop working after 20 minutes of using. Then they have to be replaced.

Goal of this change is obvious: decrease role of supercapitals and capitals as global superpower.
And more targets: "Capital repair shipyard" are juicy ones...
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#2 - 2014-05-09 17:18:12 UTC
As a wormhole resident that occasionally pokes his head into Null, I fully support this idea without fully understanding its implications or damage it could have on null-sec life. Blink
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2014-05-09 17:44:19 UTC
I'm as much 'Death to all Supers!' as the next guy, but these are WAY out of balance. An ishtar doesn't have to go be rebuilt after launching 100 drones, a guardian doesn't have to replace all its reps after 20 minutes, and a Tornado doesn't have to replace it's rack of 1400's after 5 volleys.


Lower Supers EHP significantly, reduce the super carrier sizes so they can dock, and massively reduce their mat costs so they are not retardedly expensive, then balance them to be slightly better carriers or something along those lines, but these ideas are badly unbalanced.


I mean, using an acceleration/star gate and having your ship hurled across the galaxy doesn't force you to have to dock and have your ship repaired.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

unidenify
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-05-09 17:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
npc alt complain about cap ship in null


*eat popcorn


no serious. it is bad idea and I don't think you know how often those capital ship is used.

they only appear as superpower because they have good support fleet.

lone capital ship = dead one
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-09 17:52:52 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
I'm as much 'Death to all Supers!' as the next guy, but these are WAY out of balance. An ishtar doesn't have to go be rebuilt after launching 100 drones, a guardian doesn't have to replace all its reps after 20 minutes, and a Tornado doesn't have to replace it's rack of 1400's after 5 volleys.

I mean, using an acceleration/star gate and having your ship hurled across the galaxy doesn't force you to have to dock and have your ship repaired.


1. Consider it as price for super size and super power. Technologies are good enough to avoid repairs until certain limit.
2. When ship jumps using stargate, its role is passive. Again, price for super size and weight...
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-09 17:56:15 UTC
unidenify wrote:

no serious. it is bad idea and I don't think you know how often those capital ship is used.

they only appear as superpower because they have good support fleet.

lone capital ship = dead one


Battle of NPC alts Big smile Beleive me, I know how often they are used.

My idea is to give more chances for non-capital ships and small alliances in claim wars.
Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-09 18:02:51 UTC
AA10 wrote:
[quote=unidenify]
...and small alliances in claim wars.


Serious question: why should it be easier for people who are unable to amass proper numbers in a multiplayer game to defeat those who ARE able to put a functioning organization together? More effort and more cooperation should lead to victory.
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-05-09 18:11:36 UTC
Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
AA10 wrote:
[quote=unidenify]
...and small alliances in claim wars.


Serious question: why should it be easier for people who are unable to amass proper numbers in a multiplayer game to defeat those who ARE able to put a functioning organization together? More effort and more cooperation should lead to victory.


My change doesn't affect this aspect. More effort and more cooperation will lead to victory any way. Point is to increase price of long distance movements. If huge super and capital fleets are able to cross universe back and forward easily, it's too much.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2014-05-09 18:13:15 UTC
All this does is add hassle to owning one of these ships. no actual detriment to using them. It means titans need to carry doomsdays in fleet hangar, carriers need to rep each other up after long jumps, and launching drones a lot.

\Nothing solved here, just made annoying.
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-09 18:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: AA10
Rowells wrote:
All this does is add hassle to owning one of these ships. no actual detriment to using them. It means titans need to carry doomsdays in fleet hangar, carriers need to rep each other up after long jumps, and launching drones a lot.

\Nothing solved here, just made annoying.


I agree about doomsdays and capital reps. It's minor thing. But you missed the main point: it's not like damage of hull or armor. it could be repaired at proper shipyards only! And it will take long long time...

BTW, I don't offer to affect launch of fighters and drones - bombers only. Because bombers are more important for capital fights and claim wars
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#11 - 2014-05-09 18:42:11 UTC
AA10 wrote:
So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.


ahahahahahahahaha

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-05-09 18:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: AA10
Batelle wrote:
AA10 wrote:
So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.


ahahahahahahahaha


I know, it's a lot Big smile This is the point: make supers are more local Smile
Of course numbers may vary.
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#13 - 2014-05-09 18:50:06 UTC
AA10 wrote:
The biggest ships in Eve universe use gigantic mechanisms which allow them to travel all around the world… But technologies are not perfect… Deterioration of these gigantic mechanisms leads to costly and time consuming repairs…

So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.


So what you are saying, basically, is you want to make using these ship so tedious and expensive in ways which are such a departure from the norm that people will just stop using them.

I think, underneath all your words, is yet another play on the theme of "I can't have a super and hate the ones that do"
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-05-09 18:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: AA10
Tarsas Phage wrote:
AA10 wrote:
The biggest ships in Eve universe use gigantic mechanisms which allow them to travel all around the world… But technologies are not perfect… Deterioration of these gigantic mechanisms leads to costly and time consuming repairs…

So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.


So what you are saying, basically, is you want to make using these ship so tedious and expensive in ways which are such a departure from the norm that people will just stop using them.

I think, underneath all your words, is yet another play on the theme of "I can't have a super and hate the ones that do"


I cannot agree with you. Have them, use them but do it in your region(s) or pay cost. 200ly is a lot for regional wars
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#15 - 2014-05-09 19:30:56 UTC
AA10 wrote:
Tarsas Phage wrote:
AA10 wrote:
The biggest ships in Eve universe use gigantic mechanisms which allow them to travel all around the world… But technologies are not perfect… Deterioration of these gigantic mechanisms leads to costly and time consuming repairs…

So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.


So what you are saying, basically, is you want to make using these ship so tedious and expensive in ways which are such a departure from the norm that people will just stop using them.

I think, underneath all your words, is yet another play on the theme of "I can't have a super and hate the ones that do"


I cannot agree with you. Have them, use them but do it in your region(s) or pay cost. 200ly is a lot for regional wars


I take it you have never before flown these ships you're attempting to "balance" ? Even within regions, your proposals would kick in quite fast.

And why limit these to supers and titans? Carriers have just as much, if not more, repairing power as a super, have 20% more jump range, and are far more accessible and common. You must really have a bone to pick regarding supers and titans specifically, which makes me skeptical about your intent.
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-05-09 19:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: AA10
Tarsas Phage wrote:
AA10 wrote:
[quote=Tarsas Phage][quote=AA10]The biggest ships in Eve universe use gigantic mechanisms which allow them to travel all around the world… But technologies are not perfect… Deterioration of these gigantic mechanisms leads to costly and time consuming repairs…

So, all supercapitals are able to cross universe (let’s say 200 ly) until their jump drives stop working and has to be repaired. The repair could be done at the proper shipyard and requires materials for 1/3 of hull cost and takes 1/2 of building time.


I take it you have never before flown these ships you're attempting to "balance" ? Even within regions, your proposals would kick in quite fast.

And why limit these to supers and titans? Carriers have just as much, if not more, repairing power as a super, have 20% more jump range, and are far more accessible and common. You must really have a bone to pick regarding supers and titans specifically, which makes me skeptical about your intent.


Let's not discuss who fly which ships, it's not productive Big smile
I offered the same deterioration for carriers and dreds too. Please see my first post. They are smaller, so I think the limit may be bigger. I offered 300ly. And again, we could discuss numbers but it's details.

Actually, this idea is not about nerf of supers and capitals. it's about claim wars, powerblocks and capital fights... More local fights, more fun!Smile
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-05-09 20:42:20 UTC
So, you want to pretty much guarantee that only large alliances who have huge numbers of capital ships and pilots can fully utilize those ships?
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
#18 - 2014-05-09 20:43:32 UTC
AA10 wrote:


Let's not discuss who fly which ships, it's not productive Big smile


Actually, it very much is. To change something, you must understand it. In the case of Eve and particular ships, it is quite relevant to be experienced in the things you are talking about changing. Just hanging out with super/titan pilots isn't sufficient. You need to be one in order to speak with any authority on the subject, especially with supers and titans which have use cases and tactics which apply only to themselves.

AA10 wrote:

Actually, this idea is not about nerf of supers and capitals. it's about claim wars, powerblocks and capital fights... More local fights, more fun!Smile


As has been said in so many previous threads, the problem is sov mechanics (or, "claim wars" as you put it) forcing people to project the power you complain about. If sov mechanics were changed in a way to not require this, then the force projection issue for sov goes with it.
AA10
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-05-09 20:56:43 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:

Actually, it very much is. To change something, you must understand it. In the case of Eve and particular ships, it is quite relevant to be experienced in the things you are talking about changing. Just hanging out with super/titan pilots isn't sufficient. You need to be one in order to speak with any authority on the subject, especially with supers and titans which have use cases and tactics which apply only to themselves.

You aren't discussing the idea and switching to personalities. Meanwhile, you said nothing how tactics will be affected, what's good and what's bad. Please, speak about subject.

Tarsas Phage wrote:

If sov mechanics were changed in a way to not require this, then the force projection issue for sov goes with it.

"If" is the key word. This is one of ways and approaches... Easy to implement, btw.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-05-09 21:53:52 UTC
OOH what if building a sup cap took an item of which only one existed per 24 hours
so you would have max 365 new supercaps per year!

Or more fun, its needed for every 10 jumps, can be repaired in station
but then you need the sup cap to dock in a station...
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