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[Kronos] Phoenix and Citadel Missiles

First post First post First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-05-07 15:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Hey guys, we have a pass on the Phoenix and Citadel Missiles for your feedback. The goals are to significantly improve the Phoenix for use against other caps (especially moving caps) and structures while avoiding turning it into some kind of subcap blapping monster.

First big change is to the skill bonuses on the Phoenix. We'd be swapping the kinetic damage bonus to a 4% per level shield resistances bonus. This lets the Phoenix choose any damage type, and gives it a great tank improvement.

The loss of the damage bonus is more than compensated by a change to Citadel launcher RoF. We're improving the RoF of Citadel Cruise Launchers by 20% and Citadel Torp Launchers by 25%. This equals a 25 and 33% increase in dps respectively, more than making up for the loss of the kinetic bonus.

Although the Leviathan titan isn't the focus of this change, we will be tweaking its kinetic damage bonus down to 100% instead of the previous 125% to keep it from becoming too powerful with the launcher RoF changes. This means that it still sees a reasonable dps increase from current values, 11% when using Cruise and 19% when using Torps. Its bonus will remain Kinetic only for now. I won't rule out changing that in the future, but this a Phoenix pass not a Titan rebalance.

To get the missiles onto their target faster, we're increasing the missile velocity of Citadel Cruises by 34% and Citadel Torps by 100%. Flight time is being reduced to keep overall range about the same.

Now onto damage application. I realized that we have a lot of room to make Citadel missiles better at hitting unwebbed moving capitals without making them much better for hitting webbed/painted subcaps by improving their explosion velocity significantly and then nerfing their explosion radius to a lesser degree.

We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Cruises by 38%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 14%.
We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Torps by 75%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 50%.


One side effect of such significant changes is that the Torps would start doing reduced damage to starbase modules and to small towers themselves. So we're increasing the sig radius of all starbase structures that sit outside the shields from 2000 to 3000, small towers from 2000 to 4000 and medium towers from 4000 to 5000.

:Edit: We're also increasing the signature radius of all dreadnaughts, as follows:

Revelation:
Signature Radius: 4100 (+1125)

Naglfar:
Signature Radius: 4000 (+1140)

Moros:
Signature Radius: 4300 (+1255)

Phoenix:
Signature Radius: 4200 (+1100)

After these changes the Phoenix should have quite a strong role as a dread that can apply solid damage to caps and structures with a great tank, damage selection and capless weapons.

Let me know what you think.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Holden Skunk
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2014-05-07 15:55:11 UTC
First
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-05-07 15:55:23 UTC
Good stuff, on the surface. I'll need some time to math it out on my end and see if it truly makes a difference, but I have pretty good hopes for it helping the Phoenix.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Rowells
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#4 - 2014-05-07 15:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
i geuss its ok to start training for pheonix now

BTW: will there a be a full on dread/capital pass sometime in the next year?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2014-05-07 16:01:37 UTC
Sounds great - lock it in!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

mkint
#6 - 2014-05-07 16:03:35 UTC
Any idea how this compares it to other dreads after this? The changes are pretty huge as far as % goes, along with no tracking, it sounds like some pretty huge buffs. I know damage application is hard to compare between turrets and missiles, which has obviously plagued balancing missile boats over the years.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Caleb Seremshur
Pineapple Pizza LLC
Parasitic Legion.
#7 - 2014-05-07 16:10:51 UTC
Without a rewrite of the missie formula this is the best they can do. It should be noted to all missile users out there that it is now confirmed that missiles are bad and to change a single stat means rebalancing on multiple other items. The citadel missiles themselves are obviousky broken and this hopefuly fix them a bit.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
G0N3 F1SS10N
#8 - 2014-05-07 16:18:49 UTC
From my use of them ER is WAY more important than EV which is apparent from you needing to make tower guns even bigger targets. I don't like that a min titan being on grid would keep me from hitting caps for full damage.

I CAN'T HIT A TRIAGE CARRIER NOW.

I don't like that.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2014-05-07 16:20:09 UTC
Will you be looking at regular missiles/torpedos/cruisers hitpoints compared to Citadel cruises also?
All subcap missiles have 70 HP, and capital missiles have in the thousands.

Should it not be a gradual increase?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#10 - 2014-05-07 16:20:21 UTC
I think this is litterally one of the best answers we could get to the phoenix issues without rebalancing dreads or changing missile mechanics.

Good job on this one. 10/10 Big smile

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Rowells
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#11 - 2014-05-07 16:21:40 UTC
What will the pheonix tank look like in comparison to the revealation now? better, worse, or about the same?
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#12 - 2014-05-07 16:23:37 UTC
i think it's need a bigger dps increase; phoenix should be the best dps dealer to structures by far so that it can have a role in today eve;
torpedo phoenix>moros and maybe we will see some of them out there
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2014-05-07 16:26:01 UTC
I think it's coo mang

also how bout a rev buff this patch as well
Womyn Power
Lynch Squad
Paisti Syndicate
#14 - 2014-05-07 16:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Womyn Power
I dont normally log in to post but this is by far the worst change I've seen in the past few blunders you've put out.

It's too much to expect a phoenix can 1 shot bc's with torps with webs and 3 rigs entirely devoted to bringing down radius?

Really?

50% radius increase is a ******* joke, velocity means jack anyway when dealing with these numbers - why nerf one of the already most niche dreads?

ps thanks lord servant for making fozzie/rise aware of what can be done with the game cus they apparently had no idea XD
Capqu
Half Empty
skill urself
#15 - 2014-05-07 16:29:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
JEFFRAIDER wrote:
I think it's coo mang

also how bout a rev buff this patch as well


10% dmg/lvl
4% armour res/lvl

no role bonus

slight dps increase (needed)
slight cap increase
armour tank niche

yw
Kathao Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-07 16:31:14 UTC
So structures aren't able to speedtank capital missiles by orbiting their moon/planet? Sounds cool. But please remake the optical design of it as well, I really don't want to fly a grey chocolate bar in space.
Aquila Sagitta
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#17 - 2014-05-07 16:38:39 UTC
On a scale of 10-30 dreads... How much tank we talkin for a Swaglpheonix in a c6 pulsar?
Ele Rebellion
Fat Dragon Mining Co.
Darwinism.
#18 - 2014-05-07 16:40:50 UTC
wait you mean ppl might actually use it?
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
G0N3 F1SS10N
#19 - 2014-05-07 16:41:01 UTC
I suspect the people that think this is a major buff don't use phoenixes and are assuming only a cruel god would nerf them at this point.

Right now the biggest weakness they have is that they need 2 rapiers on grid to so much as touch battleships. Now carriers sig tank them. There was always a running joke of carriers speed tanking them but they almost never did. Now we need carriers to light micros to hit them for full damage which I'd call way worse.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#20 - 2014-05-07 16:41:13 UTC
also, how about a bit more CPU? you need a coproc for a torpedo fit, really, for a dread it is a bit meh...
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