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No Chairperson for CSM9

First post
Author
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-05-06 19:34:23 UTC
We of the CSM are considering the shift to internally assigned duties without the titles that go along with them. We will continue to do our tasks and people may step forward as things present themselves. One might take over being the whip for the minutes, another focus on being the liaison to the devs. Me, I have stepped forward as a veteran of the Eve-O forums and will let you know when things are happening.

Or answer questions.

I am good at making tinfoil hats. Please do not force me to use that skill.

This is NOT an attack on any CSM9's worthiness for the position but rather the thinking that we have outgrown the previous structure.

Questions? Comments? Fire away

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#2 - 2014-05-06 19:41:08 UTC
Yes, Comrade Azariah.

Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado.

funkybacon.com - Blog

FunkyBacon on Twitter

Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-05-06 19:43:00 UTC
I support and/or endorse this statement Comrade Azariah.

www.crossingzebras.com

HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-05-06 19:43:16 UTC
I'm suspicious of any CSM who isn't for a blatant powergrab

Or did you all just vote for yourselves, canceling out any chance for a winner because I'm much more inclined to believe that
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#5 - 2014-05-06 19:46:08 UTC
I have some concerns about you guys doing this before the new CSM members have had a chance to carefully consider things. In the past, the titles have mostly been meaningless, but CCP has said there is some value for them in having the titles.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Ali Aras
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-05-06 19:46:40 UTC
Considering? Hell, we've already decided. CSM 9 will be the first CSM with no chair at all. Following the shift to STV voting and elected officers, Chair has been more of a vanity title than an actual position-- now no CSM is off the hook to get work done, and nobody can rest on their laurels.

I know a lot of people were expecting me to pick the chair thing up, but I'm wholeheartedly behind this, and it's been a team effort-- the idea, for instance, came from Sugar Kyle, one of the new elects. It's a good team so far.

And yes, the technical term for fellow CSM members is Comrade, as Comrades Xander and FunkyBacon have already demonstrated.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#7 - 2014-05-06 19:47:40 UTC
Ali Aras
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-05-06 19:49:20 UTC
Two step wrote:
I have some concerns about you guys doing this before the new CSM members have had a chance to carefully consider things. In the past, the titles have mostly been meaningless, but CCP has said there is some value for them in having the titles.

I talked to CCP about this back when CCP announced they were delaying officer selection to the Summits. We'll have enough internal structure so that the functions of the titles are still fulfilled ( Designated Minutes Buttmonkey, Designated CSM Buttmonkey ), but the external part is completely unnecessary and divisive besides. As an added bonus, the issue delayed selection solves-- selecting an officer before you've seen how CSM works together-- is resolved by role-swapping being much, much easier when it doesn't go along with external ~stuff~.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Niden
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-05-06 19:51:58 UTC
Mike mate, voted for you, so glad you made it for a second term.

2 quick ones: If there are no assigned roles is there a chance certain things might not get done because everyone assumes someone else will take care of it? Given the high level of competence on the council I'm sure you've thought of this, I'd like to know the reasoning.

Also how did you decide to do it this way and did CCP have anything to say about it?

/N
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#10 - 2014-05-06 19:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Liner Xiandra
Mike Azariah wrote:
We of the CSM ... thinking that we have outgrown the previous structure.


Apart from the minority of CSM members that continue their seat, I don't think the CSM is able to properly judge that they have outgrown anything.


edit: if you're all comrades, then who's Our Leader, Comrade Napoleon, Father of All Animals, Terror of Mankind, Protector of the Sheep-fold, Ducklings' Friend?
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-05-06 19:54:49 UTC
To echo Comrade Ali, the chair and other positions have become figurehead positions for people who desire e-importance and has no place in a council of peers. Additionally, we as a CSM collectively decided that waiting on quarter of our term to elect positions as CCP wished was ridiculous. So we tossed out the old model and made our own.

And now I’m going to call all of us comrade for the next year.

On twitter @siggonK

Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#12 - 2014-05-06 20:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
Ali Aras wrote:
Considering? Hell, we've already decided. CSM 9 will be the first CSM with no chair at all. Following the shift to STV voting and elected officers, Chair has been more of a vanity title than an actual position-- now no CSM is off the hook to get work done, and nobody can rest on their laurels.

I know a lot of people were expecting me to pick the chair thing up, but I'm wholeheartedly behind this, and it's been a team effort-- the idea, for instance, came from Sugar Kyle, one of the new elects. It's a good team so far.

And yes, the technical term for fellow CSM members is Comrade, as Comrades Xander and FunkyBacon have already demonstrated.


"Now no CSM is off the hook..." Sorry, but no CSM member is "on the hook" for anything either. I suppose in the end we can't really hold anyone accountable anyway. As such, and being a "team", the entire CSM should bask or burn as a whole. Nobody will be allowed to point the finger at even the weakest link.

How did you not decide to get rid of the permanent member positions as well? I mean, using the STV and "team" stuff should mean you are all equal.
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#13 - 2014-05-06 20:05:41 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
We of the CSM are considering the shift to internally assigned duties without the titles that go along with them. We will continue to do our tasks and people may step forward as things present themselves. One might take over being the whip for the minutes, another focus on being the liaison to the devs. Me, I have stepped forward as a veteran of the Eve-O forums and will let you know when things are happening.

Or answer questions.

I am good at making tinfoil hats. Please do not force me to use that skill.

This is NOT an attack on any CSM9's worthiness for the position but rather the thinking that we have outgrown the previous structure.

Questions? Comments? Fire away

m



Why don't you like Hedliner? :(
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#14 - 2014-05-06 20:06:53 UTC
This decision taken by my Comrades and myself is a decision I wholeheartedly agree with and support.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#15 - 2014-05-06 20:07:08 UTC
i like chairs

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-05-06 20:11:15 UTC

I'm very happy with this.


Ali Aras wrote:
Two step wrote:
I have some concerns about you guys doing this before the new CSM members have had a chance to carefully consider things. In the past, the titles have mostly been meaningless, but CCP has said there is some value for them in having the titles.

I talked to CCP about this back when CCP announced they were delaying officer selection to the Summits. We'll have enough internal structure so that the functions of the titles are still fulfilled ( Designated Minutes Buttmonkey, Designated CSM Buttmonkey ), but the external part is completely unnecessary and divisive besides. As an added bonus, the issue delayed selection solves-- selecting an officer before you've seen how CSM works together-- is resolved by role-swapping being much, much easier when it doesn't go along with external ~stuff~.


The added bonus is we now don't have to waste time at the first summit sorting this out, but can get on to the important stuff of making Eve better.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
#17 - 2014-05-06 20:13:47 UTC
Ali Aras wrote:
Following the shift to STV voting and elected officers, Chair has been more of a vanity title than an actual position.

With all due respect, we've only had one chair since shifting to STV. There is some value to having a bully pulpiteer and a Decider, both roles a Chairperson would be appropriate to fill.

That said I support CSM9's decision to experiment with a different path and I hope it works out as they hope.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-05-06 20:21:19 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
How did you not decide to get rid of the permanent member positions as well? I mean, using the STV and "team" stuff should mean you are all equal.


Voters chose the top two so we have no right to refuse them that choice. They do not and would not choose the officer positions.

www.crossingzebras.com

roigon
TURN LEFT
HYDRA RELOADED
#19 - 2014-05-06 20:51:06 UTC
Calling it first, all this talk about no chairs is just because it's getting replaced with a throne, and they will all fight and backstab each other to sit on it, until some lady with dragons comes along.
Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#20 - 2014-05-06 20:54:38 UTC
Xander Phoena wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
How did you not decide to get rid of the permanent member positions as well? I mean, using the STV and "team" stuff should mean you are all equal.


Voters chose the top two so we have no right to refuse them that choice. They do not and would not choose the officer positions.


Well, politicians ignore the will of the voter quite regularly. At one point the "voters" chose the chairman too. Things change. Typically by way of a change to the "white paper" aka the CSM Constitution. But I guess a simple majority vote works too.

If nothing else, this sets good precedent for making any kind of change with each successive CSM.
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