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Should eve be more 'Pay to Win?'

First post First post
Author
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#1 - 2014-04-03 18:00:09 UTC
A strange topic title and I've rapidly changed my opinions on these things over the past few years, but i'll explain where i'm coming from.

I have a good friend who loves the idea of Eve, has played it and is intelligent enough to grasp the concepts of it and work within the structures it has in place. He see's Fleet fights on Youtube and reports of massive scams and schemes and he loves it. He's not alone, I have multiple friends who are like this. The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships.

I used to ignore this, but it's becoming unavoidable - The new player-> veteran gulf is big and boosts for new players only goes so far. So my question is this:

Should people be able to accelerate skill training as a micro transaction?

Without going into too much detail, it seems like it might be worth seriously considering. Becoming GOOD at eve takes time, but that is also relative. If you play every day for 10 hours you WILL get better... only to be hindered by the arbitrary number that is 'Skill points'.

I've been playing since 2006'ish and I want to see a new influx of players or a way for newer players to accelerate themselfs to keep interest in the game. I've spent years training skills and it doesn't feel like an accomplishment. All i had to do was auto renew a subscription. What i've DONE in Eve feels like an accomplishment.

Perhaps offering 1 months subscription cost for 1 months worth of skillpoints (based on char stats) into your unassigned pool would be a possible way to ensure that old players got the same number of SP for every penny/cent they spent as a new player does. None of this makes new players better at the game or more financially sound... just gives them access to more ships/bonuses/market-opportunities.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#2 - 2014-04-03 18:05:48 UTC
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-04-03 18:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Maeltstome wrote:
A strange topic title and I've rapidly changed my opinions on these things over the past few years, but i'll explain where i'm coming from.

I have a good friend who loves the idea of Eve, has played it and is intelligent enough to grasp the concepts of it and work within the structures it has in place. He see's Fleet fights on Youtube and reports of massive scams and schemes and he loves it. He's not alone, I have multiple friends who are like this. The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships.


I stopped reading there, mainly because your friend is a moron.

A 1 week old character can fly a properly fitted ship for what is he wants to do.

Even if you could dump over 5k dollar into the game and buy a blinged out Navy Raven, you will still be ganked. Because you can not buy knowledge and actual skills (not skillpoints).

Also, your friend *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. can already dump his money in game and buy a character with good skillpoints, if he does, let me know what the name is so I can await the big loss because your friend doesn't know HOW to use the skillpoints.


0/10

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-04-03 18:11:20 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:

I used to ignore this, but it's becoming unavoidable - The new player-> veteran gulf is big and boosts for new players only goes so far. So my question is this:


Wait...whut?


You have obviously no idea what you are talking about.

I've seen less then 2 month olds get kills (or made kills possible) as good as veterans do.

Hell, just last month I was dueling with a new player (as in under 1 month old) that knew what he was doing with his ship.
He couldn't hit me (because of the tracks and high speed orbit) but his tank was too big for my ship to break, so in the end...we had to call it a draw as if it wasn't for downtimes and depletion of ammo (neither was using lasers) we would have still been there in the exact same situation.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-03 18:34:52 UTC
While I'm not totally against the idea to pay to "catch up" with characters created at launch:
You can kinda already do that by buying an old character on the bazaar.

And you do overestimate the amount of gain skill points bring. You can get enough skill points in 3 months of focussed training to decently pilot any specific sub-capital ship. While you might get a bit more performance with a couple more lvl 5 skills, that's usually not that important, unless you are fighting someone in the same ship. But in a fight between different ships, the ship strengths are more important than skill points.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#6 - 2014-04-03 18:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I can give you one good reason why a Pay 2 Win Eve will never work.

A newbie with a 30 million SP character and the ships to go with them is still a newbie.

@Ralph King-Griffin gief Indy gif.. MINE.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#7 - 2014-04-03 19:04:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I can give you one good reason why a Pay 2 Win Eve will never work.

A newbie with a 30 million SP character and the ships to go with them is still a newbie.

@Ralph King-Griffin gief Indy gif.. MINE.

what's particularly poignant about that story is the scam afterwards was much worse than the gank, and infinitely easier to avoid.
tell you what john, ill trade you this, this and ill raise you this
Chad Ramsbottom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-04-03 19:52:39 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships..


If he doesn't understand why making that complaint makes him stupid, this game isn't for him.

mfw your bottom

Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-04-03 19:58:17 UTC
EVE is not for everyone, too bad OP still thinks it's for him and makes posts like this.
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-04-03 20:10:09 UTC
anybody have a link to that evenews24 story about the guy who purchsed a moros pilot after only a month and tried to take on a nyx solo with it? its one of my favorite examples how money and skillpoints cant buy you what you gain from actual experiance.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-04-03 20:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Maeltstome]A strange topic title and I've rapidly changed my opinions on these things over the past few years, but i'll explain where i'm coming from.

I have a good friend who loves the idea of Eve, has played it and is intelligent enough to grasp the concepts of it and work within the structures it has in place. He see's Fleet fights on Youtube and reports of massive scams and schemes and he loves it. He's not alone, I have multiple friends who are like this. The one i am talking about in particular has Subbed a few times and every time after a month or 2 has come back with the same feedback: It takes too long to get into properly fitted ships.


I stopped reading there, mainly because your friend is a moron.

A 1 week old character can fly a properly fitted ship for what is he wants to do.

Even if you could dump over 5k dollar into the game and buy a blinged out Navy Raven, you will still be ganked. Because you can not buy knowledge and actual skills (not skillpoints).

Also, your friend *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. can already dump his money in game and buy a character with good skillpoints, if he does, let me know what the name is so I can await the big loss because your friend doesn't know HOW to use the skillpoints.


0/10

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


That
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2014-04-03 20:36:39 UTC
Part of the idea behind the "wait" to use "better" and more expensive equipment is that a newbie must first learn how to properly use the "cheaper"/"crappier" equipment effectively. In other words... newbies are being forced (or "challenged") to use their noggins to compensate for their lacking skills and/or wealth.

This helps immensely later on when they gain access to their "powerful" ships and equipment... because by this point they should have learned that while they can stomp another newbie one on one... they will DIAF against 5+ of them... and that no amount of raw skillpoints or "sexy stats" are going to save them against superior numbers and/or "tactics."
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#13 - 2014-04-03 20:41:08 UTC
OP needs his assets removed by his CEO, awoxed, kicked from his corp, have all his alts outed, have his JC destroyed and camped into a station without a medical till he's down to 900k SP.

We as a community need to make this happen, for the betterment of the game.
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-04-03 21:02:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I can give you one good reason why a Pay 2 Win Eve will never work.

A newbie with a 30 million SP character and the ships to go with them is still a newbie.

@Ralph King-Griffin gief Indy gif.. MINE.


Thanks Jonah.

I was wondering how not to break forum rules regarding a killboard link about Mr. Raven, totally forgot about the mittani post.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-04-03 21:06:36 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
OP needs his assets removed by his CEO, awoxed, kicked from his corp, have all his alts outed, have his JC destroyed and camped into a station without a medical till he's down to 900k SP.

We as a community need to make this happen, for the betterment of the game.


Although I usually like to give new players some slack and hope they improve...sometimes people need to learn the hard way.Twisted

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#16 - 2014-04-03 21:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
J'Poll wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I can give you one good reason why a Pay 2 Win Eve will never work.

A newbie with a 30 million SP character and the ships to go with them is still a newbie.

@Ralph King-Griffin gief Indy gif.. MINE.


Thanks Jonah.

I was wondering how not to break forum rules regarding a killboard link about Mr. Raven, totally forgot about the mittani post.

So much purple on that ship, it was a loot piƱata waiting to happen. Guy had obviously never heard of stacking penalties either, 5 officer BCUs is pure fail.

The scam that followed the kill was the application of rule #2: The Double Tap.

P2W won't work in Eve, because we won't let it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#17 - 2014-04-03 22:51:07 UTC
Errr pay to win in eve...

Buy plex
Sell plex for isk
buy character on bazaar

Is this not basically p2w?
J'Poll
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-04-03 22:58:05 UTC
Xylem Viliana wrote:
Errr pay to win in eve...

Buy plex
Sell plex for isk
buy character on bazaar

Is this not basically p2w?


Naah, it's Pay 2 Expensive loss with foolish fit.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#19 - 2014-04-03 23:06:34 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Xylem Viliana wrote:
Errr pay to win in eve...

Buy plex
Sell plex for isk
buy character on bazaar

Is this not basically p2w?


Naah, it's Pay 2 Expensive loss with foolish fit.


Meh same difference really. Buy SP boosts or buy a premade char. Always gonna end in stupid losses.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#20 - 2014-04-03 23:38:59 UTC
Paid cheating is a cancer in gaming.

EVE's pretty good on this - player knowledge is so much more important than character power or character resources that anyone that engages in RMT (either sanctioned RMT through massive purchases of PLEX or illicit RMT) ends up as a hilarious lossmail. But I've left other MMOs in the past over the levels of paid cheating in them and the way the game was shaped around pushing more and more microtransactions.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

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