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thoughts on the eve gate.

Author
Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-22 10:50:35 UTC
I haven't been a capsuleer for long, and before then my birth world was my whole world. Yet now that i fly across countless systems and witness countless cultures and beliefs, i wonder.
What sort of planet gave birth to our race, were we as diverse then as we reached out through the eve gate, or were we one people with one drive.
What sort of Society developed on the other side of the gate when it collapsed, and how would it view our five great nations now, would it condone the jove's genetic tampering, laugh at the Amarr's fanaticism, would it find common ground and values with Gallente Democracy? We have no way of knowing without the gate reactivating, and that would spell for one and only one thing.
War, an optimist might claim that reconnecting with humanity's home would spawn a feeling of mutual cooperation but i believe it would only expose bigger rifts in our societies that so far the capsuleer programs have done much to hide.
More likely would it cause a war for control of the portal, amongst ourselves, a mistake i might add considering we have no way to know whether the people of the other side are hostile or not. Considering that so far humanity on this side the gate has yet to shed it's prejudices and hatred for all things different, it's fair to assume that those on the other side have also had no success in fighting their nature, and would view us as a threat should we establish contact.
Case of point, should we want to survive we should cooperate, as as long as there are humans we know nothing about there is the potential that there is evil far far worse that what we see in our rivals.

If we remain divided our fate will be painful and bitter.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#2 - 2014-03-22 11:51:07 UTC
Jonas Wickonian wrote:

If we remain divided our fate will be painful and bitter.


I couldn't agree more.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-03-22 13:37:54 UTC
We seem to be doing well enough so far. Quality of life, longevity, scientific understanding, technological prowess, by a whole host of metrics, ours is a graph which consistently trends upwards.

And at no stage in human history have we been united. The evidence would appear to suggest that division among humanity is a broadly positive influence, or at least not a significantly negative one. The one time we DID suffer a sharp drop in the graph was in the aftermath of a natural disaster on a galactic scale.

it seems strange and poorly-founded to me to claim that we're headed for a fall if we don't change from the state we have occupied basically forever under which we have done nothing but grow.

Does that mean we shouldn't strive to treat each other with some respect and remain aware that we're not so different deep down? Of course not. But we don't need to unify into one cohesive whole. When an engine does that, it seizes and becomes useless.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-03-22 15:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Competition has always made us strong. Even trees grow tall to get more sunlight, withering those who grow not tall enough.

It is the cycle of life.

Edit: The strongest or the most clever will get control of the gate should it reopen, and that is how it should be.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-22 16:02:03 UTC
I was not arguing that we should rid ourselves of our individuality or our cultures, only that the our differences thus far is dangerously bordering xenophobic. We may never be a single state across the cosmos, but at the moment i would compare us to the ancient periods of earth, from what historical documents i could find, which weren't filled with fantasy or propagnda, such as the warring states in a place called china, or the tales of quite a barbaric land known as greece. both eventually collapsed inwards due either to becoming xenophobic and stagnant, or from being conquered by a more unified enemy force.

Stitcher, the idea that we seem to de doing well enough is a naive or ignorant one, thousands of our people live in chains, ritual sacrifice is rampant, piracy is seen as a legitimate career path. Corporations dictate much of our life and run the galaxy like warlords. Our technology may have improved in leaps and bounds but as a people we have if anything regressed into savages taking pleasure in the pain of others. Even we the gallente take pleasure in lording over others with our self sense of superiority and from our moral high grounds we look done on others.

This needs to change.

P.S i forgot to mention with our newest and most highly praised tech, our clones, we risk damaging the dna, when you copy something you lose a little of the original in the process, and if you the copy the copy etc etc, your spelling for trouble similar to that of the joves.

We may have been the same in the past, but we succeeded despite of that, not because of it. Must we forever repeat the follies of our ancestors?
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-03-22 16:10:45 UTC
Unification will not happen. Trying to mesh all of humanity under one body has failed literally everytime it's been tried.

If you want to unite all of the human race, you will have to murder everyone who resists.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Ollie Rundle
#7 - 2014-03-23 02:03:38 UTC
Jonas Wickonian wrote:
I haven't been a capsuleer for long, and before then my birth world was my whole world. Yet now that i fly across countless systems and witness countless cultures and beliefs, i wonder.
What sort of planet gave birth to our race, were we as diverse then as we reached out through the eve gate, or were we one people with one drive.
What sort of Society developed on the other side of the gate when it collapsed, and how would it view our five great nations now, would it condone the jove's genetic tampering, laugh at the Amarr's fanaticism, would it find common ground and values with Gallente Democracy? We have no way of knowing without the gate reactivating, and that would spell for one and only one thing.
War, an optimist might claim that reconnecting with humanity's home would spawn a feeling of mutual cooperation but i believe it would only expose bigger rifts in our societies that so far the capsuleer programs have done much to hide.
More likely would it cause a war for control of the portal, amongst ourselves, a mistake i might add considering we have no way to know whether the people of the other side are hostile or not. Considering that so far humanity on this side the gate has yet to shed it's prejudices and hatred for all things different, it's fair to assume that those on the other side have also had no success in fighting their nature, and would view us as a threat should we establish contact.
Case of point, should we want to survive we should cooperate, as as long as there are humans we know nothing about there is the potential that there is evil far far worse that what we see in our rivals.

If we remain divided our fate will be painful and bitter.


Informative reading.

Contact me once you've had the time to read it - we can perhaps discuss your questions privately once you clearly understand both your theory on origin and evolution and those that oppose it.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#8 - 2014-03-23 06:41:11 UTC
Human unity sounds all well and good in theory but, just how would it work in practice? Which political system would we follow? Which culture, values, religion, etc.? The Amarr want all of humankind united under their deity and culture. Nation proponents believe Kuvakei's vision is the answer for our ills. The EoM feel that all mankind is too corrupt to continue and should be destroyed. Which, if any of these, should we choose?

I think a better solution is for us to find common ground where we can, celebrate and respect our differences and try to co-exist in peace.

I can't say that I agree with your idea as to where we came from or, what (if anything) might lie beyond the Eve Gate but, I do agree with your premise that if we can't find some way to live together we'll most likely end up dying together.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-03-23 08:40:29 UTC
Ollie Rundle wrote:
Jonas Wickonian wrote:
I haven't been a capsuleer for long, and before then my birth world was my whole world. Yet now that i fly across countless systems and witness countless cultures and beliefs, i wonder.
What sort of planet gave birth to our race, were we as diverse then as we reached out through the eve gate, or were we one people with one drive.
What sort of Society developed on the other side of the gate when it collapsed, and how would it view our five great nations now, would it condone the jove's genetic tampering, laugh at the Amarr's fanaticism, would it find common ground and values with Gallente Democracy? We have no way of knowing without the gate reactivating, and that would spell for one and only one thing.
War, an optimist might claim that reconnecting with humanity's home would spawn a feeling of mutual cooperation but i believe it would only expose bigger rifts in our societies that so far the capsuleer programs have done much to hide.
More likely would it cause a war for control of the portal, amongst ourselves, a mistake i might add considering we have no way to know whether the people of the other side are hostile or not. Considering that so far humanity on this side the gate has yet to shed it's prejudices and hatred for all things different, it's fair to assume that those on the other side have also had no success in fighting their nature, and would view us as a threat should we establish contact.
Case of point, should we want to survive we should cooperate, as as long as there are humans we know nothing about there is the potential that there is evil far far worse that what we see in our rivals.

If we remain divided our fate will be painful and bitter.


Informative reading.

Contact me once you've had the time to read it - we can perhaps discuss your questions privately once you clearly understand both your theory on origin and evolution and those that oppose it.


Fascinating, i did not realise Earthology was viewed with such disbelief. Surely people cannot be so closed minded, and these books i have of old earth tales, ancient as they are, are they just fiction? Written by a man with too much time on his hands? I must investigate this further. This has been eye opening, thank you.
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-03-23 10:48:52 UTC
Were this EVE Gate wormhole to somehow re-open, either in the Gate System or elsewhere in the cluster as wormholes tend to do, I would worry far less about which nation in the New Eden cluster would 'take control of it' and what we would do and be far more concerned about what came out of it and what they would do.

If one is to discuss ancestry, mythical or factual, it is flooded with conflict. If there are people on the other side they would likely be no different.

At least we have translators and at least basic grasps on each other's societies. They would have none on ours. Any first encounters would likely be with pirates or Capsuleers and end brutally as such.

It would be... messy.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-03-23 11:14:42 UTC
My fears exactly, and without a single front to meet those from the other sides, if they do turn out hostile, they'll will most probably play off our differences to destroy us. Once more ill repeat myself, i'm not saying a single nation is the answer only that in our current form we are significantly lacking and we seem to be drifting further apart, not closer
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-03-23 12:37:13 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:
Any first encounters would likely be with pirates or Capsuleers and end brutally as such.

It would be... messy.


For the hapless pilots involved. If we're talking about fabled Earth here, then they'd come out of that wormhole with technology thousands of years in advance of our own. It would be quite amusing to see a hapless PL hotdrop get slaughtered wholesale by their equivalent of a frigate.

As for the rest of us, we'd better hope they prefer to get in touch, share their scientific understanding and let us get on with it.

But frankly, the New Eden system is a wreck. Most of its planets were evaporated in the collapse - it's reasonable to assume that whatever system lies on the other side suffered a similar fate.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#13 - 2014-03-23 14:20:47 UTC
The "books" you have are probably an elaborate con.

You got scammed, sweetheart.

**Vherokior **

Jonas Wickonian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-03-23 14:22:49 UTC
dang it
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#15 - 2014-03-23 16:00:13 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
If you want to unite all of the human race, you will have to murder everyone who resists.


Que Sansha's Nation...

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-03-23 21:54:46 UTC
Jonas Wickonian wrote:
would it find common ground and values with Gallente Democracy?

I really hope not.
I believe that we have enough concentrated stupidity in our cluster for people to follow such deranged concept as democracy.
Luckily, they are concentrated in the federation, and can all be neutralized by incapacitating gallenteans.
We should really be unlucky to find some sort of gallentean democracy outside of our cluster, because it would need meeting several criteria, as both stupidity of democracy followers, their neglect to survival of society in a whole, and at the same time desire to subjugate smarter and stronger persons or more developed societies to the will of grey mass.

Jonas Wickonian wrote:

If we remain divided our fate will be painful and bitter.

And this is why everyone should unite against Federation and Sansha.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#17 - 2014-03-24 00:06:32 UTC
Jonas Wickonian wrote:
would it find common ground and values with Gallente Democracy?


Mr. Wickonian, I would certainly hope so. However I would not rule out the thought that if, then we as a species would perhaps come full circle.


Diana Kim wrote:
And this is why everyone should unite against Federation and Sansha.


Pilot Kim, is there a place on the IGS in which you do not spill your bile and disgusting hate filled rhetoric? Mr. Wickonian sparked an interesting conversation, and the grown ups are trying to hold a conversation.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-03-24 00:15:17 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

For the hapless pilots involved. If we're talking about fabled Earth here, then they'd come out of that wormhole with technology thousands of years in advance of our own. It would be quite amusing to see a hapless PL hotdrop get slaughtered wholesale by their equivalent of a frigate.


I am not sure if you are using us as a standard of strength or you want to see us hurt....

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#19 - 2014-03-30 23:31:10 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:
Any first encounters would likely be with pirates or Capsuleers and end brutally as such.

It would be... messy.


For the hapless pilots involved. If we're talking about fabled Earth here, then they'd come out of that wormhole with technology thousands of years in advance of our own. It would be quite amusing to see a hapless PL hotdrop get slaughtered wholesale by their equivalent of a frigate.

As for the rest of us, we'd better hope they prefer to get in touch, share their scientific understanding and let us get on with it.

But frankly, the New Eden system is a wreck. Most of its planets were evaporated in the collapse - it's reasonable to assume that whatever system lies on the other side suffered a similar fate.
Pilot Stitcher it might indeed be reasonable to assume any of a number of things in regard to the collapse of the EVE Gate, that does not make them facts. Destruction on our side took place where the immigration first took hold in this cluster, the same may not be true about the other side. The other side might have been a back water system only discovered thousands of years after humanity made it's way into space. They may have only lost a door into adventure when we lost a path to our roots.

I myself would not be so sure It would be a happy reunion. The technological differences and the sociological differences that can spawn over the course of thousands of years can slant the playing field.

I choose to think the other side suffered worse then we did, that is why God chose the Amarr. The Amarr will one day reunite both sides of the EVE gate in the name of God. It is our destiny.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Dez Carthis
Kanoi Industy Inc
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#20 - 2014-03-31 01:04:55 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
[quote=Arista Shahni] Any first encounters would likely be with pirates or Capsuleers and end brutally as such.

It would be... messy.


For the hapless pilots involved. If we're talking about fabled Earth here, then they'd come out of that wormhole with technology thousands of years in advance of our own. It would be quite amusing to see a hapless PL hotdrop get slaughtered wholesale by their equivalent of a frigate.

As for the rest of us, we'd better hope they prefer to get in touch, share their scientific understanding and let us get on with it.

I choose to think the other side suffered worse then we did, that is why God chose the Amarr. The Amarr will one day reunite both sides of the EVE gate in the name of God. It is our destiny.


Do I smell... Fear... capsuleer?

There is no moment like the present... seize it... Should the Eve Gate reawaken, it will be an opportunity, and no worthwhile opportunity comes without risk.

So go ahead... pray... and let the ensuing chaos show you the way

In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order. ~ Carl Jung 

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