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Non-scannable locations in space

First post
Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2014-01-07 15:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

Edit: Expanded thoughts:

I don't really want to dive into specifics with this initial post, that is covered on page 3 of this thread.
I want to discuss general theme.

In my opinion, a whole lot of older players are looking for the "next horizon" within Eve.
They have done pretty much all that Eve has to offer, at least on a superficial level.
They are waiting for something new, hence the excitement about CCP opening up new territory with player jump gates.

But what if they can have that new experience within the confines of existing star systems?
What if they could experience a different type of Eve, where the game is played a little differently, where things are more claustrophobic, where things are a little more random, the risks higher, and the rewards also higher, where tried and true methods of PvE and PvP operation have to be altered, or thrown out the window?

On a different tack, Eve players are notorious for being way too smart for their own good. We quickly industrialize every PvE concept, or even PvP mechanism that CCP hands us. Does not matter if it is high sec incursions, or wormhole C6 combat sites, or FW plexes, or null sec sov moon goo.
The players will take a mechanism and will test and optimize the risk/return ratio.

But what if they faced a section of space where the rules are changed? Where things are so random, or so varied in possibilities that no group could optimize for any particular circumstance. Where industrialization of sites was impossible, where bad people could be anywhere? Where exploration and finding riches or prey was significantly more difficult than today, and the rewards matched?

This is the type of zone that I would like to see CCP create, and by removing some of the existing game mechanics as described later, where you are partially blinded, you don't know what you are facing. PvE sites and PvP situations can be so much closer together, since you can't see them, until you are virtually on top of them. Whole new meta's on how to play will be created.

The happiest time I had in Eve was when Apochrypha came out. My old crew, within Eve UNI, has our 1st POS up in wh space 5 hours after Apochrypha was released. We stayed for over a year, constantly upgrading our home, from a C3 to a C4 to a C5 with a C6 static. The sense of the unknown, the learning of new game mechanics, the heightened risk of no local, all made for a great experience.

I think something like what I am proposing could bring back that wonder and excitement level, and it would be oh so easy for all to access, as these zones could spawn anywhere. And if done properly, and if CCP jams enough variation of sites and potential combat situations into a zone, then it would be very difficult to optimize for anything. I am not talking about quantity of sites being in a zone. I am talking about variation of POTENTIAL sites. If one does not know what they will find any given day, the game becomes very interesting.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2014-01-07 17:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
sounds like a risk free site where u get 'valuable' items. except there is so little risk and the items are so easy to get their value plummets immediately. may as well make it hi-sec only then.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide


exactly why this would be a terrible idea.


edit-
i feel i should make the distinction:

with the new MSI u know that someone else has put it there, and that it has a life of 2 hours. U also may know if the MSI is hiding a site (might still be on HUD)

Ur idea sounds like its meant to be a natural phenomena that occurs randomly and lasts for days potentially. if one pops up in ur WH, it would have to be physically checked at regular intervals to see if there are baddies in. thats assuming things show up on ur overview once ur in.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#3 - 2014-01-07 17:34:01 UTC
I'm totally for meaningful exploration and totally against perfect safety.

Wanna hide fleet keep it on call until covert cyno lights up.

Invalid signature format

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#4 - 2014-01-07 21:22:02 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
. . .
I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

You guys reacted only to the hiding aspect. I sorta like the getting lost part. Some FC leading his pos bashing fleet or whatever into an ion storm to hide, only to find he's lost and trapped, unable to lock on anything outside to warp to.Lol The amount of "impolite verbal abuse" on comms when game time is wasted and the objective lost would be gold to record.P

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#5 - 2014-01-07 21:44:10 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
. . .
I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.

You guys reacted only to the hiding aspect. I sorta like the getting lost part. Some FC leading his pos bashing fleet or whatever into an ion storm to hide, only to find he's lost and trapped, unable to lock on anything outside to warp to.Lol The amount of "impolite verbal abuse" on comms when game time is wasted and the objective lost would be gold to record.P


Indeed......imagine something 5000 km across.
At 900 m/s, you can traverse it in about 90 minutes in a straight line.
So it would never be possible to get hopelessly lost.

But would make things interesting if there was a few kick ass sites in there to be found, or some rich belts, buried deep.
And you would have to devise methods of finding the sites, and use your brains and friends.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2014-01-07 22:06:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.



This.



Is a god damb

Amazing

Idea.


"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-01-07 22:06:48 UTC
I like this idea. Smile

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2014-01-07 22:10:23 UTC
Srs man, flesh this idea out, use this as a guideline and let's make this happen.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sort Dragon
Resilience.
DARKNESS.
#9 - 2014-01-07 22:20:11 UTC
Decent idea I like it. Take Malc's advice and run with it. :)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2014-01-07 22:27:45 UTC
One of the best ideas ever posted imho. +1

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Silent Rambo
Orion Positronics
#11 - 2014-01-07 22:35:09 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.


+1 Dinsdale has gone up in my book. Great idea. +1 again. +1... another +1. Alright that's all you get.

You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies?

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#12 - 2014-01-07 22:38:12 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Given that CCP ...


Why do you always do this kind of thing, and make me have to agree with you?

+1 to this idea, for sure. Let's have some actual exploration please, CCP.
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#13 - 2014-01-07 22:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vesan Terakol
Reminds me of the nebula from Freespace 2 - no lock-on missiles, messed up sensors, EMP bursts... well, even without those it will still be really nice place to get lost in, wander around, find something shiny, and then...

A BLOODY DREADNOUGHT BUMPS STRAIGHT IN YOUR FACE!

P.S. Did i forgot to say it straight - me wants it ASAP!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#14 - 2014-01-07 22:43:16 UTC
Silent Rambo wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Given that CCP has now demonstrated that they have the coding capability to create zones of non-scanability, how about creating stuff like static nebula's and gas clouds that negate the ability to scan in OR out. Where there is a perpetual warp disruption field in place.

Large areas, thousands of km across, where fleets can hide, or even get lost in.
Put items/sites of value in in them though, where people REALLY have to explore, where you operate by your wits, overview and luck.

Some place that while it is easy to hide in, be it someone with evil or benign intentions, but also makes it very difficult to hunt someone down in the cloud.

I always imagined some kind of area like we saw in the Wrath of Khan, would be a very interesting to spend a few hours, or longer, in.


+1 Dinsdale has gone up in my book. Great idea. +1 again. +1... another +1. Alright that's all you get.


I suddenly feel like Sally Fields at the Oscars a few years ago.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#15 - 2014-01-07 22:45:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Srs man, flesh this idea out, use this as a guideline and let's make this happen.


Very well.
I believe you are not trolling me.

I will flesh it out.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#16 - 2014-01-07 22:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
I like the idea, but I have some questions and thoughts.

I love that you cannot warp out of it. If there is lucrative content, people will try to farm it. Being unable to warp out inhibits that. I would also suggest that you could not cloak inside it.

Content should be varied and random. I'm envisioning an area very large where there could be: data cans, relic cans, gas clouds, ice fields, pirate installations, ghost site areas... Initial exploration might be an interceptor flying through it to find a lucrative mining field, then leading a fleet of hulks back inside. Or perhaps a T3 with a range of mods and a mobile depot. The point being, it would be unpredictable and random. It would require real effort.

It should not be a static location. Or should it? If it does, it should not have a predictable refresh/respawn. Perhaps CCP could use this to replace some of the random installations and complexes that are currently spread around space?

It could have WH effects in certain grids. Gas clouds, asteroid belts, damage clouds. It could even sometimes have a WH entrance inside of it.

The possibilities are almost endless.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#17 - 2014-01-07 22:55:45 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I like the idea, but I have some questions and thoughts.

I love that you cannot warp out of it. If there is lucrative content, people will try to farm it. Being unable to warp out inhibits that. I would also suggest that you could not cloak inside it.

It should not be a static location. Or should it? If it does, it should not have a predictable refresh/respawn. Perhaps CCP could use this to replace some of the random installations and complexes that are currently spread around space?

It could have WH effects in certain grids. Gas clouds, asteroid belts, damage clouds.


They could show up as scannable signatures, and have a deadsapce-esque effect. You always land on the 'edge' when warping to it (or trying to warp to someone inside it). Only instead of the acceleration gate, you're just presented with the pocket to fly into manually.

They could despawn/respawn and shift about just like other signatures do.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#18 - 2014-01-07 23:07:32 UTC
This sounds like it could be interestingly coupled with the Mobile Micro-Jump Unit. Especially if the MMJU could be configured to jump you more than 100 km's.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-01-07 23:11:58 UTC
Wow. What happened to Dinsdale?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-01-07 23:13:09 UTC
Let's make exploration MEAN something.

Combine this with procedural generation...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

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