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Hauling and Selling Minerals?

Author
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#1 - 2013-11-23 04:07:17 UTC
Hauling: I was ready to buy a Kyros, but some players (including Jester who listed it on his worst of 2013 ships) say it is a huge gank target.

So what's a good ship/fit to haul minerals by yourself in high sec?


Selling: What's the best strategy to sell the minerals? Wait until I have a certain size quantity? Use sell orders or buy orders? If sell orders how do I figure out the best price likely to move? Haul to a hub or the best buy order nearby?


Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2013-11-23 05:35:50 UTC
Freighter.

Buy ore. Refine. Sell minerals. [works for ice too]

Use buy orders and sell orders. Don't sell to buy orders.

Don't hold onto stock long, as the markets are volatile with very high volumes.

Where you haul to is up to you, but keep in mind that you should expect to earn more for hauling further, or just sell locally.
Izzy Ankhavees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-11-23 12:31:21 UTC
Ganks are a republican endeavour, there is really no such thing as a specific ship to be gank target, it is not hull specific but class specific. You will expect to be ganked in something that have lesser defenses, usually valuable cargo, and at the same time something that can be killed fast enough to not risk the concord to kill the gankers before they open the shell, so you endup with the best target being t1 industrials with larger cargo holds.

The quickest answer to industrial prayers are transport ships. Transport ships are harder to gank, so more gankers are need to do it in a fashinable time. If your aim is transport you wont be needing to target ships, you can use stabs and you still can warp in most cases because people seem to forget that transport ships are warp strenght 2 by nature, and you can make them relativelly more sturdy to discourage a ganking unless people are sure you have gargo or importance enough for what it takes to gank one. And all the requirements to run a transport ship are also usable for other ends by industrials.

Freighter is the next step, and Jump being the next, but sometimes you really wont be wise to use them. So even if you can pilot a jump freighter, which means also a freighter, sometimes you will still endup better with a transport ship.

The blockade runner for when cargo space is not the issue, as you can use covert cloaks and it is a marvelous almost instawarp ship with warp strenght nativelly 2. It can be used even to some covert ops that arent industry related at all, as they can manage to hold things you need to plant a surveilance or fit a ship, POS, but they are cloak warp capable.

The market thing, it is really localized. The best thing you can do is be close to playable factions frontiers, or have alts/ppl to be in each major trade hub to see prices and oportunities. Sometimes the payout will be compensating a transempire trade, sometimes it can be profitable, but not as much taking time into consideration.

You will have to have a good spreadsheet about prices to find out how the market is in the thing about ore and mineral, because it is not always that true profit can be draw from ONE only situation. Several times when math is taken into consideration you find out that those oh so lucrative appearances are just that, appearances.

[i]"Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work.[/i]"

Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
#4 - 2013-11-23 12:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
I'm not sure about the Kyros, since I've never used it but in general...it all depends on how much stuff you are hauling (isk cost) and how much someone would be willing to lose to see if you are willing to gank.

The big thing here though is, are you going to use autopilot? If you are, you increase your chance of being a target. If not, you decrease it dramatically.

For a small ship like an industrial, which now can use lows for other things besides cargo extenders, you will be easily fast enough to escape ganking in highsec. Just add some nano fibers and maybe some agility rigs and you'll warp around faster than anyone has time to do the math on what is in your hold. If you are still freaked out, just set up the MWD/Cloak trick.

After that though, freighters are typically used for high volume. Maybe an orca as a halfway point if you want to swing it.

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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-11-23 14:07:59 UTC
The new ships might be targets, but they're still the best option.

Since they use commodity bays, they have no use for cargo expanders. I fit 2 nanos and 2 i-stabs, and my align time is around 5 seconds. Plenty for hi sec.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#6 - 2013-11-23 17:50:39 UTC
Only use for T1 industrials is emptying high sec PI and doing lvl 4 distribution missions.

The holds in T2 ships such as the Prowler & Mastodon are obviously too small for transporting serious minerals.

Therefore as Tau said you need access to a Freighter:

a) Own and use your own freighter.
b) Ask a trusted friend or corpie to shift your minerals in their freighter.
c) Hire the services of a haulage company such as Red Frog or Push. I recommend Red Frog.

Alternatively gather up a decent amount of minerals and advertise in the 'Minerals & Manufacturing' channel and/or the 'Bulk Trade' mailing list. With larger amounts eg 500 mill to 1 billion ISK worth of minerals buyers will be willing to collect themselves saving you the job of hauling.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-11-23 22:32:51 UTC
You can expect to be ganked if you have a certain dollar value in your hold, that's it. There is no way to tell what it is really because every ganker will have a different profit to loss threshold for deciding to make a gank. There is no one target for a ganker. If you have a juicy hold, and it is a low hanging fruit, he will open fire.

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#8 - 2013-11-25 16:14:34 UTC
get reserve isk

use buy orders

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Izzy Ankhavees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-11-26 03:19:49 UTC
As many things in EVE, you have two choices: Do it yourself the best you can or get someone else to do it.

Everytime someone tell you to get someone else to do it, it is crappy advice. If you cant figure out for yourself what you can and cannot do, better start learning there and then start learning how to do something.

In our corporation we recently sold a Charon that had years of use without so much as repair in its booklet. We had orcas destroyed in situations, but the main orca with nice gang modules and stuff, we also had it for years without so much as repair.

You just need to learn the inevitable law of things:
- The gank institution as I mentioned in the other post. You cannot be sure you are safe because the skill you have, fit you use or ship you pilot. It is the atittude that makes the difference.

- Convenience comes with a cost. The more convenient the position you are is, the less prepared to face adversity you are.

- Sometimes it is better to make lots of trips with a faster and more agile ship than follow the advice of gankers or wannabes and use freighter. The freighter will be useful to a certain extent, but you have to be always prepared to change if the need arises.

- Industrials are not heroes, they are industrials. You run from fights, you get far from fighting situations, even if that means more jumps or unscheduled stops.

- Better yet to have haulers that can insta leave corp on wardecs.

But if you want to put auto pilot and go afk, if you want the easy solution, if you want the "game playing itself for you" then you will be gangganked eventually in the most perverse way, because you deserve it.

[i]"Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work.[/i]"

Huttan Funaila
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-11-26 16:59:05 UTC
A freighter is going to have around 200k EHP and will be a major operation to try to gank your ship. A Kyros (like the other renamed iterons) is going to have 15-20k EHP. This puts the ship squarely into the range where a couple of Catalysts can pop your ship. Keep the cargo under a few tens of millions and you should be able to avoid the situation where the potential loot exceeds the cost to destroy your ship.
Quote:
[Kryos, Highsec Hauler]
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Damage Control II
Inertia Stabilizers II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I


Warps in 8 seconds with good skills. 16k EHP.

For the days when you have to haul 100M of morphite/nocx:
Quote:
[Sigil, Brick Hauler]
Inertia Stabilizers II
Inertia Stabilizers II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
37k EHP and warps in 5 seconds.

Jester's blog post.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2013-11-26 17:22:39 UTC
I'd ignore the warp core stabs in high. If you're going to get ganked, they're probably not going to tackle you first.

Thus, nanos or iStabs.

The choice between those comes mostly from 'do I want the larger sig radius'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Izzy Ankhavees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-11-27 03:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Izzy Ankhavees
Steve Ronuken wrote:
I'd ignore the warp core stabs in high. If you're going to get ganked, they're probably not going to tackle you first.

Thus, nanos or iStabs.

The choice between those comes mostly from 'do I want the larger sig radius'


If you are ganked in hisec by smaller, faster and expandable ships, they also will target you very quickly even without and sig penalty. So for hisec, it does not matter. However you are wrong about tackling. It is just done differently. Instead of warp disrupting you at first, the tackler bump you out of alignment so you cant warp while the gank force is in place. They keep bumping until you are targeted, which is not long, then the salvo comes. IF you cant notice the ganking before it starts, you have little to no chance of fleeing. The only thing that makes you efficient in avoiding ganking and awareness and attitude. If you get bumped, it doesnt matter which low you use, might aswell be using expanders, because if your ship is not natively agile enough to align after a bump, the modules wont make it so.

[i]"Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work.[/i]"