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Free to Play EVE

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#1 - 2013-11-19 06:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: TheFourteenthTry
Is it time for free to play EVE?

I was thinking (shouldn't do this often) on this a lot recently and wanted to get incite from other EVE players (and forum trolls)

So first off the "worst idea ever"...

- EVE goes free to play!
-- Training queues still require paid subscription, or PLEX to be active
-- Accounts remain active if sub, or PLEX is not updated, training queue is paused
-- Free accounts still get a month or so (depending on current marketing deal) of training time
-- No more "trail accounts" removing cost of activating a new account

That's it...

What would this possibly do for EVE?

- Positives
-- You and the people you play with are not unable to play EVE if they can't afford to sub/PLEX
-- EVE community is grown because monetary barrier to entry is removed
-- Mining bot gankers get more prey
-- CCP gains money because player base grows significantly
-- More players means system wide activity goes up (more pew pew for all)

- Negatives
-- Player base could be negatively affected by weird people who used to not play EVE
-- CCP loses money because thousand of accounts stop training
-- Mining Bot swarms and cyno rats everywhere
-- Players consider paying for training a pay to win model (people HATE ptw models)
-- System overload. Could EVE servers handle millions of active players?
-- Could be much harder/expensive to do logistically than it sounds


I think most the negatives I listed are not huge risks. EVE players are great at self regulation, that is the wonderful sandbox nature of our universe. There are already plenty of scumbags that play EVE; scammers, gankers, and botters (I love you all trust me), but would more ruin EVE?

I do not consider this a Pay to Win model because of the knowledge, tactics, and execution of those that is required to be successful at EVE. Skill points allow people to do more stuff, but not necessarily "win".

From point of view of CCP's wallet I think that free to play models have shown they monetize very well. This model could actually make CCP gobs more ISKies. I for one would not stop training, consistent and quality updates have made getting new skills very desirable. I think this would be the same for most on at least one character. The thing I am not sure of is if the player base doubled would entering Jita on a Saturday be a crap shoot?

Finally...

Is this even possible? I do work in game, so I have a decent idea of what types of logistical nightmares that can come from a significant change. Some can be a few lines of code and testing, others can be theoretically impossible (think starbase issues remaining because Legacy code)

--EDIT NOTES--

What's most interesting about everyone's reaction so far is that everyone points out that CCP losing money is the biggest flaw in the logic. No one has said they would enjoy EVE less if they weren't required to pay. Oddly enough while I was thinking about this I considered I might find EVE less enjoyable, but I am a skill *****, so I would keep PLEXing. Also, It is possible that CCP could gain income from the player base that would come to EVE and stay with EVE. And from all the new accounts people make to try to game the system.

What it seems like has been implied below is a large percentage of players no longer have any desire to train new skills for many of there accounts. These players would stop buying PLEX if this change was made. IF that is true, and the amount of new players does not counter act the amount of non-playing accounts then yes this is the worst idea ever and EVE would die.

As for the wild accusations of putting a cyno character in every system, I say go for it. Have fun with the logistics, and CCP will enjoy your 5,000 X $15 (systems in EVE, est. training cost of a cyno character) $75,000 per human crazy enough to do it.
#2 - 2013-11-19 06:50:49 UTC
Free to play? Only if the SP training rate is reduced by half for free accounts.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

#3 - 2013-11-19 06:53:19 UTC
TheFourteenthTry wrote:
I was thinking

Please stop, you are bad at it.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-11-19 06:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gigan Amilupar
Honestly, this is horrible. You yourself have outlined several reasons why this would be bad, the most eye catching one being "CCP loses money" which pretty much sinks it. But I'll take it a bit further. You've tied subscribing to the training queue? What about PI/mining accounts? Once they get their skills trained, they no longer need to sub. What about players who have been playing since the beginning of the game, or long enough to train everything they want? Now none of them have to pay either. Neither do people who primarily small-gang or solo pvp in low SP ships. This would be catastrophic. More so, EvE already HAS a system in place for people who can play the game a lot but might not have the finances to back it up, and it's called PLEX (although I would seriously question the wisdom of anyone who doesn't have $15 a month to spend on an online game spending their time on an online game). Not to mention from a development standpoint this would encourage CCP to continue to add skills to make people want to subscribe, which would bloat the system, be bad for game health and promote power creep. And of course there is the game environment which you mentioned, as this would be a huge boon to bots. Honestly, this is just terrible. I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but this is seriously bad.

No, never, not in a million years.
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2013-11-19 07:11:27 UTC
Its already free to play.
#6 - 2013-11-19 07:11:37 UTC
Sweet off to a great start :D

feedback so far has been what I expected.

First off thanks to the Troll you burned me good

for clarification...

This means you do not train if you do not pay, so playing EVE for free would mean you're NOT training.

As for the other incites to loss in income to CCP. You are absolutely right. EVE currently has a successful business model, and this would instantly drop the income by a significant margin. EVE is most likely sustainable for a many more years as is. But EVE already has power creep and new skills are added all the time for the same reason. Also when you reach the end of the game (no more desired skills to train) you are already facing the decision of the value of your money and time.

The real question is would Free to Play draw in so many more people to EVE because of a lowered barrier to entry that it compensated for that? Also would more players in EVE make it a better experience for everyone?

I don't know maybe it wouldn't
Harkonnen Federation
#7 - 2013-11-19 07:23:16 UTC
There just is one big problem with your whole scheme; you can log in a char that has trained before. And play with it. For free. This is pointed out to you above as well.

IE: takes 2 plex to fully train a PI / Mining barge alt THAT NEVER HAS TO TRAIN AGAIN. Basically, it prints isk. For no cost. Or better, 4 plex for a L4 alt or pretty high up mining alt. So you have free chars that can generate upwards of 100 mill a hr per char ...

This will cause a massive market disruption as isk becomes less valuable, it will murder the prices of everything. Plex will become so expensive that people without 'free' accounts no longer can buy it off the market.

Not to mention huge fleets of dual boxed miners, campers, gankers etc...

And I hear you say, hey good points, but what about we limit the accounts to 1 per person? Cannot be enforced and CCP does not have the time to go hunting these people all day long.
Sev3rance
#8 - 2013-11-19 07:26:29 UTC
"CCP loses money".

Alright then.
#9 - 2013-11-19 07:34:04 UTC
Neor Deninard wrote:
There just is one big problem with your whole scheme; you can log in a char that has trained before. And play with it. For free. This is pointed out to you above as well.

IE: takes 2 plex to fully train a PI / Mining barge alt THAT NEVER HAS TO TRAIN AGAIN. Basically, it prints isk. For no cost. Or better, 4 plex for a L4 alt or pretty high up mining alt. So you have free chars that can generate upwards of 100 mill a hr per char ...

This will cause a massive market disruption as isk becomes less valuable, it will murder the prices of everything. Plex will become so expensive that people without 'free' accounts no longer can buy it off the market.

Not to mention huge fleets of dual boxed miners, campers, gankers etc...

And I hear you say, hey good points, but what about we limit the accounts to 1 per person? Cannot be enforced and CCP does not have the time to go hunting these people all day long.



So you're saying you don't already do this PI trick w/ your alts...

Cause I did and still could any time... I don't pay (one subbed one plexed) but to keep two of my accounts character training. Sadly I had to pause for my alt to train bot not anymore with multi account training.

People also dual/trip/quad/freak box, 30+ PI account and disrupt market play ALL the time in today's EVE.

PLEX prices are already rocketing up because of multi account training, but that means it's more desireable for all these new players to spend RL money for lots of ISK.

and no I am not going to say limit to one account cause that is impossible and also a terrible idea.
#10 - 2013-11-19 07:35:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its already free to play.
This basically. You just need to spend a little time each month, to earn the ISK to play.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-11-19 07:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Gigan Amilupar
TheFourteenthTry wrote:
Neor Deninard wrote:
There just is one big problem with your whole scheme; you can log in a char that has trained before. And play with it. For free. This is pointed out to you above as well.

IE: takes 2 plex to fully train a PI / Mining barge alt THAT NEVER HAS TO TRAIN AGAIN. Basically, it prints isk. For no cost. Or better, 4 plex for a L4 alt or pretty high up mining alt. So you have free chars that can generate upwards of 100 mill a hr per char ...

This will cause a massive market disruption as isk becomes less valuable, it will murder the prices of everything. Plex will become so expensive that people without 'free' accounts no longer can buy it off the market.

Not to mention huge fleets of dual boxed miners, campers, gankers etc...

And I hear you say, hey good points, but what about we limit the accounts to 1 per person? Cannot be enforced and CCP does not have the time to go hunting these people all day long.



So you're saying you don't already do this PI trick w/ your alts...

Cause I did and still could any time... I don't pay (one subbed one plexed) but to keep two of my accounts character training. Sadly I had to pause for my alt to train bot not anymore with multi account training.

People also dual/trip/quad/freak box, 30+ PI account and disrupt market play ALL the time in today's EVE.

PLEX prices are already rocketing up because of multi account training, but that means it's more desireable for all these new players to spend RL money for lots of ISK.

and no I am not going to say limit to one account cause that is impossible and also a terrible idea.


Your missing his point. While it's true that many players don't train specific characters past the skills required to do PI or mining with optimal efficiency, those accounts still have to be subscribed and therefor paid for, one way or another. And you are correct that the price of PLEX is increasing due to demand for multi-char training, this is hardly a bad thing, as those PLEXs need to be bought with actual cash. In these scenarios CCP is making money because the PLEX have to originally be bought from them. Even for the guy who multiboxes 30+ miners at a time and is paying for all those accounts with PLEX, those 30+ PLEX per month are still being paid for by any number of people. But what your suggesting is that instead of CCP getting 30+ PLEX worth of income per month while he plays CCP should opt to get 60 or 90 PLEX in the time it takes to train those characters, and then let them continue to play for free. Forever.

While there is an argument to be made about the effects of multiboxers on the economy, there is still a barrier to entry on some level that prevents widespread abuse whether that be the initial investment required before one can start paying with PLEX or the supply/demand ratio of farmed materials leveling out prices. But creating a system that allows for infinite free bots cannot possibly be justified by any damage multiboxers do. That's like making the argument "Well, the stoves on fire, so I guess I might as well let the house burn".

Finally, the draw to pay for ISK is never, ever, going to surpass the draw to play the game itself. Why should we make people just want to buy currency? If people are paying for the game and then want to, essentially, buy ISK on top of that, then that's certainly better for CCP.
Harkonnen Federation
#12 - 2013-11-19 08:14:20 UTC
You just don't understand it. My alt is paid for, each month, 1 plex/month.

If he isn't paid for, that's 615 million isk I can spend on other stuff. (and it was 550 1 month ago, plex is getting more expensive all the time already)

Do that times 1000x or even 10.000x ; more money in the economy (and many more minerals and POS materials mainly) will cause stuff to become more expensive on one side, and kills the mineral and POS material (PI) markets because of the huge supply.

That creates an intresting situation, too much isk, too much minerals, too much materials; dropped items will becomes stupidly expensive, manufactured items will be sold at production prices, or lower.

And in the long run, noone buys plex to sell on the market for isk anymore, since they have isk printing accounts. Combined with a huge isk devaluation plex will become stupidly expensive. So expensive that you need more free accounts, printing more isk and flowing more items into the market, to buy plex to allow training.
#13 - 2013-11-19 08:54:34 UTC
Terrible idea, do you know how many accounts people have that they don't need to train anything on them. Hell with this system I could have a cyno toon in every system of EvE and never have to worry about plexing them active. Training perfect mining toons doesn't take that long. I could have perfect hulk pilots and never need to train sp again and just play the game for free.


Hell I could even be content with mediocre pvp pilot just playing for free with half way decent skills.

This would be an excellent way to kill EvE and CCP.

If I don't need to train my toons I don't need to pay anymore. I can enjoy the game for free for however long it takes the ccp to tank.

People wont need to buy plex anymore.



Seriously worst idea i've seen to date.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2013-11-19 08:57:07 UTC
If you want F2P go play Dust.

As you've already pointed out yourself, your suggestion would break too many things (and it's just bad)

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted

#15 - 2013-11-19 09:00:03 UTC
I just wanted to add this in

Quote:
- Negatives
[...]
-- CCP loses money
[...]
I think most the negatives I listed are not huge risks. EVE players are great at self regulation,


how do you think ccp losing money is not a huge risk? and how do you expect eve players to self regulate the companies loss of money? CCP can't exactly survive off isk....

#16 - 2013-11-19 09:03:15 UTC
Horrible Horrible idea. Also as you seem to be too lazy to use the search function to see if this has been posted before, I will link another thread for you. Hopefully you will read that one and try to understand what people think of this idea.

The same cruddy idea.


Just in case you don't. I will say the same thing here....

Jint Hikaru wrote:
NO

This would be terrible for Eve.

Can you imagine the amount of free accounts doing the following -

Mining
Blob warfare
Ganking
Trading
spamming scams
etc

There is so many things you can do in Eve with only a few months skillpoints. All of these things will be done with free accounts.


Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

#17 - 2013-11-19 09:09:06 UTC
eve is free to play like many of them who plex .... plexing for hours not for you go play dust or wait for fighter game to come out :)
#18 - 2013-11-19 09:29:28 UTC
someone just fed the trolls Roll
#19 - 2013-11-19 09:30:59 UTC
Asa Shahni wrote:
someone just fed the trolls Roll



Had to...

I play EVE I am as bored as they are Shocked
#20 - 2013-11-19 09:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: TheFourteenthTry
Jint Hikaru wrote:


Also as you seem to be too lazy



You're right I am too lazy to search more than the 'its already been suggested' thread line at the top of the forum for features and ideas. But then again that's what it's there for. :)

Jint Hikaru wrote:


Horrible Horrible idea.



and thanks... Haven't had an idea called 'horrible horrible' since I got home from work today.
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