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[CCP opinion requested] Remove learning implants from the game.

Author
SOL Ranger
SOL.
#1 - 2013-11-16 20:17:11 UTC  |  Edited by: SOL Ranger
This has been presented several times in the past, I'm now hoping you(CCP) could share your thoughts on the subject if it is an action you feel makes sense or if you are against it.
I'm sure you developers are fully aware of the problems concerning learning implants but I'll list some quite obvious effects they bring about.


  • They benefit the inactive/offline the most.
  • They benefit station campers the most.
  • They benefit carebears the most.
  • They benefit the rich most.
  • They benefit veterans the most.
  • They suffer the same downsides as did learning skills.
  • They suffer the additional downside of costing much thus not only do you need to focus your skills on cyber V first but you also need to save up for the implants immediately after as well, or fall behind.
  • You continually lose potential SP when actively playing the game with purpose built implants rather than pure learning implants.


Quite often I'm seeing myself staying docked and closing the client to train rather than play because I CBA. to change clone into less optimal learning implants and lose hours, possibly even days worth of SP because of that one or several gaming sessions.
Those who actually decide to go out and play, most notably interact in PvP and pod each other, those are the ones who suffer the real consequences, not only do they lose SP due to almost never having V's plugged in but they lose their IV's or III's when their pods pop. It makes little sense for a game supposed to promote PvP and yet punish those who then participate in it the most.

It is not an interesting nor exciting choice deciding to either play and lose efficiency or staying offline or docked while benefiting more, essentially playing 'optimally' when not playing.

What could be done is to remove the learning implants and make '+3 implants' baseline, people will rage about this but it's a reasonable suggestion, +5's made baseline might be just as fine a solution, I'm not sure, I'm just sure the learning implants must be removed.

Bottom line:
Rich inactive veteran station hugging carebears benefit the most
Poor active newbie proactive PvP'ers suffer the most

[EDIT] I see some are asking what about Slaves/Crystals etc, the idea is to merely strip the learning attributes from all those implants.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.

Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#2 - 2013-11-16 20:20:47 UTC
At first, I came here to flame at you. But then I read you wall of text, and it totally makes sense.
Especially since I'm a wormholer (CCP dun wanna give us jumpclones hurdur).
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#3 - 2013-11-16 21:40:53 UTC
Pobunjenik wrote:
At first, I came here to flame at you. But then I read you wall of text, and it totally makes sense.
Especially since I'm a wormholer (CCP dun wanna give us jumpclones hurdur).


Holy crap yeah, I was going to do the same... In general I play the game without implants to avoid precisely what the OP is talking about. His reasoning makes some very surprising sense.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#4 - 2013-11-16 21:46:18 UTC
The Rorqual can fit a clone vat, can't it?
Ix Method
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-11-16 21:49:40 UTC
The best suggestion I ever saw was turning them into kinda boosters that last for say a month and aren't effected by pod loss. That way the current isk sink remains, hardwirings/pirate implants can still be lost yet people can pewpew at will.

Seems sensible to me. Learning implants as is are as daft as, well, learning skills.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#6 - 2013-11-16 22:13:38 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
The Rorqual can fit a clone vat, can't it?

Wonderful thing about wormhole space is that it doesn't work there.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#7 - 2013-11-16 22:18:37 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
The Rorqual can fit a clone vat, can't it?

Wonderful thing about wormhole space is that it doesn't work there.


Well that's a strange thing, considering mind transfer supposedly works via quantum entanglement...
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-11-16 23:31:05 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
The Rorqual can fit a clone vat, can't it?

Wonderful thing about wormhole space is that it doesn't work there.


Well that's a strange thing, considering mind transfer supposedly works via quantum entanglement...

Yes and a wormhole has no dimension being merely a folded piece of space time.
But it is ultimately a topographically definable fold.
Thus wh space actually exists within the quantum realm
Its universes all the way down boys.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#9 - 2013-11-17 00:44:34 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
The Rorqual can fit a clone vat, can't it?

Wonderful thing about wormhole space is that it doesn't work there.


Well that's a strange thing, considering mind transfer supposedly works via quantum entanglement...

Yes and a wormhole has no dimension being merely a folded piece of space time.
But it is ultimately a topographically definable fold.
Thus wh space actually exists within the quantum realm
Its universes all the way down boys.

Yes, but the system that the wormhole connects to is in 'real' space. Ergo, it shouldn't be a problem. Anyways, back to topic. learning implants are in a similar vein as learning skills. It would be consistent to phase them out.
novellus
The Special Snowflakes
#10 - 2013-11-17 03:05:20 UTC
This... I... Why does this make so much sense? Stop making so much sense.

....A surprising +1 from me
Sara Yazria
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-11-17 04:18:40 UTC
Same as the guys above... I came in here thinking "baha some newb lost his +5's and is having a rage" but this makes so much sense and adds potential to make more hardwirings to fill the first 5 slots.
joshua mckayne
Bubblewrap.
#12 - 2013-11-17 05:51:42 UTC
this is pretty well thought out and if implemented the owners of said implants should be refunded +1
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#13 - 2013-11-17 06:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Zvaarian the Red
As long as they adjust training times so we all basically have +3 implants all the time I totally agree (+5 is too much). Implants should be about gameplay, not passive skill point hoarding.
Heisenbergur
Venantium
#14 - 2013-11-17 06:04:02 UTC
This is a great idea - why should the inactive benefit over the active? Why should the rich benefit over the poor (in terms of character development and progression)?

+1
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-11-17 06:54:39 UTC
People who have crystal, slave, snakes, etc don't pvp as much either. Should those implants be removed?
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#16 - 2013-11-17 07:18:15 UTC
Kirkwood Ross wrote:
People who have crystal, slave, snakes, etc don't pvp as much either. Should those implants be removed?


Your missing the point.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#17 - 2013-11-17 07:26:57 UTC
haha stupid

.

Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-11-17 07:29:16 UTC
which implants are those again?

I've never heard of such implants so I'm going to assume(for now) that you're talking about the regular attribute implants.

useless post is useless.

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....

Shivanthar
#19 - 2013-11-17 08:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Pobunjenik wrote:
At first, I came here to flame at you. But then I read you wall of text, and it totally makes sense.
Especially since I'm a wormholer (CCP dun wanna give us jumpclones hurdur).


Wow, same rage here. But after I read the whole thing, it totally makes sense and made me cool down. I'm not a pvp guy, but I dip my toe time to time. I can simply tell the risk of being podded pushes you back of the high-sec or offline players, WHO train with their +4 - +5 implants on their head. Not to mention T3 ship skills being lost when podded.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-11-17 08:46:51 UTC
I agree with the OP. I've got 154 days worth of skills that I want before I enter 0.0 and/or wormholes. But, if this change goes through before I train those skills, I'll shift to null/wormhole the day that change goes live because wanting to train at full speed is the only thing keeping me in high/low security space.

Kirkwood Ross wrote:
People who have crystal, slave, snakes, etc don't pvp as much either. Should those implants be removed?

No. But they should have their attribute bonus reduced to 0 at the same time as the learning implants get removed.
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